Jump to content
Wanderers Ways - passion not fashion
Sign in to follow this  
TrickyTrotter

FV Ownership Model

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, Sluffy said:

The club was put out to tender.

There was no agreed price.

The winning tenderer simply met all the terms and conditions set by the Administrator and was the largest bid received.

If you don't think that the value of an item is what someone is actually willing to pay for it I have a pair of underpants for sale (washed) - a bargain at £500.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

 They now have assets at a massive discount and could conceivably flip it at a substantial profit should someone else turn up with deep pockets and an overwhelming desire to own a football club with a nice ground, hotel and maybe some development prospects.

We’ve been here very recently. Even after the debts were reduced according to those financial reports you reference 

we hardly had people with deep pockets queening up at the door 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, barrycowdrill said:

 

we hardly had people with deep pockets queening up at the door 

He’s right,there wasn't a wealthy gay investor to be seen.

Edited by Burndens Bogs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

If you don't think that the value of an item is what someone is actually willing to pay for it I have a pair of underpants for sale (washed) - a bargain at £500.

You don't have an "agreed" price when you go out to tender/have an auction.

Clearly you've no experience of tendering and are showing your ignorance of the process.

Well done for not mentioning I've banned you from Nuts, you usually do.

Have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Burndens Bogs said:

He’s right,there was not a wealthy gay investor to be seen.

Gives an insight in to my auto correct 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You don't have an "agreed" price when you go out to tender/have an auction.

Clearly you've no experience of tendering and are showing your ignorance of the process.

Well done for not mentioning I've banned you from Nuts, you usually do.

Have a nice day.

There is in admin though in effect a "reserve price". Where an administrator cannot sell below given their need to get a deal for creditors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

There is in admin though in effect a "reserve price". Where an administrator cannot sell below given their need to get a deal for creditors. 

It's not as black and white as that.

It isn't as simple as at a normal auction, as no doubt which you are comparing it to, because you can't simply take back the club and sell it at a later day.

The company BWFAC was in such a position that if the club could not be sold when the market was tested then it would have had to be liquidated, taking the club with it too.

Liquidation doesn't in itself guarantee that even the secured creditors would receive all their money back - as per what happened with Anderson's 'security' in the hotel after PBP's £5.5m as head creditor is repaid first.

No doubt a 'reserve price' would have been worked to - indeed £25m was talked about by the club Administrator at the start of the process (which included the hotel?) but no doubt if the best tender offer was considerably less than that I have no doubt that it wouldn't have been rejected out of hand.  It may well have been that the main secured creditor of the club EDT would have accepted less simply to keep the club in existence.

In fact that in a round about way that is what happened when EDT came to their agreement with Anderson for the sale to FV go through.

It's all water under the bridge now but the point Custard was making (and that Hoppy clearly did not understand) is that the price paid doesn't necessarily equal the value of the goods or services won during a tendering event.

Sometimes you can win big...

...and sometimes it can cost you millions!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/16/east-coast-rail-line-to-be-temporarily-renationalised-virgin-stagecoach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sluffy said:

It's not as black and white as that.

It isn't as simple as at a normal auction, as no doubt which you are comparing it to, because you can't simply take back the club and sell it at a later day.

The company BWFAC was in such a position that if the club could not be sold when the market was tested then it would have had to be liquidated, taking the club with it too.

Liquidation doesn't in itself guarantee that even the secured creditors would receive all their money back - as per what happened with Anderson's 'security' in the hotel after PBP's £5.5m as head creditor is repaid first.

No doubt a 'reserve price' would have been worked to - indeed £25m was talked about by the club Administrator at the start of the process (which included the hotel?) but no doubt if the best tender offer was considerably less than that I have no doubt that it wouldn't have been rejected out of hand.  It may well have been that the main secured creditor of the club EDT would have accepted less simply to keep the club in existence.

In fact that in a round about way that is what happened when EDT came to their agreement with Anderson for the sale to FV go through.

It's all water under the bridge now but the point Custard was making (and that Hoppy clearly did not understand) is that the price paid doesn't necessarily equal the value of the goods or services won during a tendering event.

Sometimes you can win big...

...and sometimes it can cost you millions!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/16/east-coast-rail-line-to-be-temporarily-renationalised-virgin-stagecoach

Indeed. I suppose the point is that the sale was a mixture of "cash" and re-negotiating existing debts. The business is not debt free as part of the takeover will have been FV agreeing terms of repayment and security with EDT and potentially other creditors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Casino said:

Christopher, if the debt was reduced from one year to the next, does that not say that we were profitable, albeit with no cash?

Sorry, I'm only skimming your post 

Not exactly. Its  quite possible for debts to be reduced, for example, by sale of assets, new equity investment or debt write off as Sluffy has pointed out. The sale of Madine would have reflected positively on the profit and loss account too but as most of it was needed to meet operating costs there wouldn't have been much of it left for debt reduction.

But all that's getting away from the point I was making that FIBS, Maguire, JME and Uncle Tom Cobley and all failed to notice the true facts about how much BWFC's ongoing losses had been substantially reduced under its rogue chairman and that FV didn't pull out first time round because they'd discovered a pile of unexpected debt.

Anyway today is the first anniversary of the death of Eddie Davies and there's an 'in memoriam' in IOM Today. You'll find it here:

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/iomtoday-uk/obituary.aspx?n=eddie-davies&pid=193861199

Can anyone tell me where I can find any mention of it in the Beeno?

Edited by Chris Custodiet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Not exactly. Its  quite possible for debts to be reduced, for example, by sale of assets, new equity investment or debt write off as Sluffy has pointed out. The sale of Madine would have reflected positively on the profit and loss account too but as most of it was needed to meet operating costs there wouldn't have been much of it left for debt reduction.

But all that's getting away from the point I was making that FIBS, Maguire, JME and Uncle Tom Cobley and all failed to notice the true facts about how much BWFC's ongoing losses had been substantially reduced under its rogue chairman and that FV didn't pull out first time round because they'd discovered a pile of unexpected debt.

Anyway today is the first anniversary of the death of Eddie Davies and there's an 'in memoriam' in IOM Today. You'll find it here:

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/iomtoday-uk/obituary.aspx?n=eddie-davies&pid=193861199

Can anyone tell me where I can find any mention of it in the Beeno?

Taking into account the disputed £7.5M and hotel and club debts combined that takes you to roughly the £40M figure for a solvent sale widely reported to have put off FV who were told by Anderson it was £25M does it not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Taking into account the disputed £7.5M and hotel and club debts combined that takes you to roughly the £40M figure for a solvent sale widely reported to have put off FV who were told by Anderson it was £25M does it not?

I'm not party to what exactly Anderson told FV but I do wonder why they would sign HOT's without at least looking  at the last audited balance sheet, available FOC to anyone with the vaguest interest. These btw showed liabilities of £43.7m (including deferred income) and there was every reason to expect the debt to be increasing with every month that passed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I'm not party to what exactly Anderson told FV but I do wonder why they would sign HOT's without at least looking  at the last audited balance sheet, available FOC to anyone with the vaguest interest. These btw showed liabilities of £43.7m (including deferred income) and there was every reason to expect the debt to be increasing with every month that passed.

We know Anderson marketed it as a £25M sale. That was leaked. Quite a few people from within seem to be saying that even before that Anderson had two good offers on the table the year before but refused both because he thought he could get more. I think what is clear is that any chance of any solvent deal was scuppered by Anderson's negotiation tactics and general behavior. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We know Anderson marketed it as a £25M sale. That was leaked. Quite a few people from within seem to be saying that even before that Anderson had two good offers on the table the year before but refused both because he thought he could get more. I think what is clear is that any chance of any solvent deal was scuppered by Anderson's negotiation tactics and general behavior. 

We know because it was leaked is hearsay but it is possible to get down to c£25m if you exclude deferred income and the remaining £10m of Eddie's old loans. That much would be obvious to any interested party.

Whether Eddie had or had not intended to write off the £10m is a moot point but I'd always thought he would and that he had left it on the books for tactical reasons  but never expected to get it back.

The rest about 'good offers' is also hearsay. There's no shortage of chancers around but when push comes to shove 'proof of funds' frequently turns out to be a bit of a stumbling block.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, HomerJay said:

were-going-in.jpg

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year.

Running over the same old ground and how we found the same old fears. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm old, but no problem with using chairman to describe her

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Casino said:

Maybe I'm old, but no problem with using chairman to describe her

Agreed. In fact, I hate the term Chairperson which attempts to take out the gender-related issue. Chairman is a position rather than a person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A genuinely nice person. What a wonderfully refreshing change. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

A genuinely nice person. What a wonderfully refreshing change. 

Isn't it just.

We needed a fresh start from top to bottom and now we've got it.

I get the feeling we're in good hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a couple of brilliant interviews. 

 

Custard and Sluffy need to move on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.