New dawn for fans.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 hours ago, Sluffy said:

I understand what you say and why you say it but it just doesn't work like that in real life.

Most Muslims hold religion at the core of their existence - they life their lives by it, and a couple of the issues of that faith which aren't really tolerated are alcohol and gambling.

I know many Muslims DO drink and like a flutter but many of them also keep it low key and away from the elders of their family and community.  Even if the family/community know about it, it is often not acknowledged - a blind eye is turned so to speak, as opposed to it being accepted and acknowledged.

I simply don't think the Muslim community as a whole would ever allow loads of their sons and daughters going to places where alcohol and gambling is clearly a main feature surrounding the event.

Until Muslims integrate themselves into western culture (as they have chosen to live in western countries), or alternatively absorb the western world into their culture and religion, then there will always be a failure of integration between the two cultures.

Make areas of stadiums 'dry' and non gambling, then you might have a chance of some sort of participation and support from Muslim's but just saying 'it's football, nothing else should matter' simply doesn't work, because  they do believe, something else matters more than football and what does matter more than football is their religion (or at least not being seen acting contrary to their religious teachings).

Multicultural integration simply does not work whilst one side or the other simply won't compromise on their beliefs.

 

I agree on the first part: that's why I said it's more of a social issue.

I don't accept the answer is to have dry areas etc.

If folk want to come, do so. If the don't, fine.

There's another thread, about kiosks, where the vast majority are wanting better ale, served quicker. Tents outside etc, with ale and food.

Can you imagine, hot dog stands, hog roast place, bacon butties.

Doesn't seem compatible.

[SatanGreavsie]

12 hours ago, Sluffy said:

 

I simply don't think the Muslim community as a whole would ever allow loads of their sons and daughters going to places where alcohol and gambling is clearly a main feature surrounding the event.

 

 

Really? So no muslims would have shops that sell alcohol?

[Sluffy]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Our stadium is in Horwich not Riyadh, you stump. 

Funny then how all the Muslims turn out to watch football in country's that don't serve alcohol or have bookmakers but only a minority do in country's that do?

Must be a coincidence then?

[Sluffy]

3 minutes ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Really? So no muslims would have shops that sell alcohol?

Hindu's and Sikhs have plenty shops that sell alcohol.

Muslims considerably less so I would suggest.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Funny then how all the Muslims turn out to watch football in country's that don't serve alcohol or have bookmakers but only a minority do in country's that do?

Must be a coincidence then?

It's true, many Muslim countries do have a love for football.

I suppose the comparative position, would be a small of expats living in saudi asking for an ale section so they can come.

Live by the laws and traditions of the land for me.

[Flannel Truscott]

26 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

So you must think multicultural integration has worked and created a new society in which Islam has embraced western values on alcoholism and gambling  such that Muslim communities will be flocking to the Unibol for all future matches?

Either that or you just posted something to troll me about?

I wonder which it could be?

Set your superiority complex aside, nobody trolls you, they just call out your bullshit. 

This whole conversation started out as an idea to attract Asian fans. 

Your distinctly white elderly bias has turned that into a religious argument. 

Hindus outnumber Muslims 2:1 in Bolton so your racism in equating Asian with Muslim has already reduced the credibility of your drivel by 66%.

If you weren't so busy reading the daily mail and fulfilling your mission of informing wandererswayers who don't need informing then you might have a more enlightened view of the world. 

Muslims are able to mix with people who don't subscribe to their beliefs without catching fire. 

You make it sound like every fan needs to walk through a footbath of beer and pussy juice to enter the stadium. 

I can understand this misconception given that you don't actually go yourself. 

Until we get to the point that Muslim families never enter a restaurant that sells beer, passes through a train station that sells beer or gets on a train or plane where alcohol is available then your argument is nonsense. 

[frank_spencer]

I know it's fun to have a go at Sluffy.

But he's right all be it in a very long winded way.

Many Muslims (and other religions) don't like being around drunk people. It's not the selling of alcohol that puts them off its people being pissed.

Spoke many a time with a former Algerian colleague who loved football and could talk for hours about it. But had no interest in going to the match due to boozed up not rights.

Like many things this will lessen over the generations.

I'm not calling for banning of booze at the ground, but these are issues that if the club wants to attract fans from outside the usual demographic they need to understand.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

We'll put Frank.

There is no doubt that for some alcohol can be an issue. Not necessarily Muslims either.

Not sure how much the club can do about that, there are laws which cover being too pissed, but folk sup wherever and get oiled before they come in.

[Andy Gee]

You get more pissed up people at cricket than you do at football but Muslims are happy to go and watch that, or is that because they are a higher class of pissheads at cricket? 

[Cheese]

39 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Funny then how all the Muslims turn out to watch football in country's that don't serve alcohol or have bookmakers but only a minority do in country's that do?

Must be a coincidence then?

You really are an oddball.

[frank_spencer]

8 minutes ago, Andy Gee said:

You get more pissed up people at cricket than you do at football but Muslims are happy to go and watch that, or is that because they are a higher class of pissheads at cricket? 

Cricket fans aren't known for fighting and racist behaviour whilst pissed though.

This also plays into the reasons to stay away.

[Sluffy]

1 minute ago, Flannel Truscott said:

Set your superiority complex aside, nobody trolls you, they just call out your bullshit. 

This whole conversation started out as an idea to attract Asian fans. 

Your distinctly white elderly bias has turned that into a religious argument. 

Hindus outnumber Muslims 2:1 in Bolton so your racism in equating Asian with Muslim has already reduced the credibility of your drivel by 66%.

If you weren't so busy reading the daily mail and fulfilling your mission of informing wandererswayers who don't need informing then you might have a more enlightened view of the world. 

Muslims are able to mix with people who don't subscribe to their beliefs without catching fire. 

You make it sound like every fan needs to walk through a footbath of beer and pussy juice to enter the stadium. 

I can understand this misconception given that you don't actually go yourself. 

Until we get to the point that Muslim families never enter a restaurant that sells beer, passes through a train station that sells beer or gets on a train or plane where alcohol is available then your argument is nonsense. 

Well this white, elderly, shit fan, with an apparent superiority complex at least can tell the difference between ETHNICITY

https://www.bolton.gov.uk/downloads/file/616/people-in-bolton-2011-census-ethnicity-factfile-updated-october-2013

and RELIGION

https://www.bolton.gov.uk/downloads/file/622/people-in-bolton-2011-census-religion-factfile

which is clearly more than you can.

Let me call out your BULLSHIT you've posted above instead shall I?

"Christians are the largest religious group in Bolton with 173,600 people identifying as Christian, making up 63% of the population. The second largest was Muslim, with 32,400 people or 12% of the population. Hindus made up 2% of the population and there were relatively small numbers of Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs and ‘Other’ religions". 

So please do tell me again how I was wasting my time informing people like your good self who clearly don't need informing (really!!!) and about MY 'misconception' that you decided to put me straight on!

I am well aware the Muslim's do indeed mix with other people who don't subscribe to their beliefs, no doubt because I'm one of them they mix with!

And what was that you were telling me about my "racism"???

Have a nice day.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

34 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

I know it's fun to have a go at Sluffy.

But he's right all be it in a very long winded way.

Many Muslims (and other religions) don't like being around drunk people. It's not the selling of alcohol that puts them off its people being pissed.

Spoke many a time with a former Algerian colleague who loved football and could talk for hours about it. But had no interest in going to the match due to boozed up not rights.

Like many things this will lessen over the generations.

I'm not calling for banning of booze at the ground, but these are issues that if the club wants to attract fans from outside the usual demographic they need to understand.

They're not the same argument. People of an ethnic minority background not attending football matches through fear of racial abuse, racial harrassment or racially-motivated violence from drunk supporters is one thing. Muslims refusing to attend, or not wanting to be seen to approve of, football matches in a places where alcohol is sold is another. I'm not suggesting that either argument is completely without merit (though I believe the former is much more significant a factor, and I know Muslims who attend regularly with no qualms about alcohol being sold) but they're different.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

43 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

All ethnicities welcome, all ages welcome, all gin drinkers welcome, all ale drinkers welcome, all cola drinkers welcome, all tea/coffee drinkers welcome, all dry un-lubed hot dog eaters welcome and all those who love getting hammered on away days are welcome., it's a NEW DAWN 

 Can we at least vet cockney cunts though? Particularly if they wear tank tops.

[Dr Faustus]

3 hours ago, Flannel Truscott said:

 

You make it sound like every fan needs to walk through a footbath of beer and pussy juice to enter the stadium. 

Now you're talking, that would get the numbers back

[Rudy]

4 hours ago, Andy Gee said:

You get more pissed up people at cricket than you do at football but Muslims are happy to go and watch that, or is that because they are a higher class of pissheads at cricket? 

No fighting or trouble, one of the reasons they can drink in the stands, same with other sports.

shame really, but if they allowed it, it would only take one dickhead to spoil it

[Duck Egg]

3 hours ago, Mr Grey said:

Let's not get into clobber, if I had my way, anyone donning Lonsdale, tank tops and grandad shirts would have a life ban 

That'd reduce Wigans away following even further

[victor meldrew]

fuzzy wuzzies only follow successful teams ..fact

[Dan.m]

8 hours ago, Cheese said:

Our stadium is in Horwich not Riyadh, you stump. 

I was in Riyadh last year working and there was a music event on with western artists. (David Guetta, Black Eyed Peas etc.) Mixed crowd too no segregation. Burkas were off and being waved around their head helicopter style. Pretty mad to watch.

[Cheese]

Just now, Dan.m said:

I was in Riyadh last year working and there was a music event on with western artists. (David Guetta, Black Eyed Peas etc.) Mixed crowd too no segregation. Burkas were off and being waved around their head helicopter style. Pretty mad to watch.

I work in Dhahran fairly frequently. I couldn't live there, but the people are fine. It's the "Government" that deserves all the stick.