Private schools

[mickbrown]

A bit of further digging and it appears the track is also lottery funded. 

 

[Casino]

should private schools not train their own teachers?

 

anyway, once heard a private school governor/head, whatever on the wireless

he said that if his school was paid directly by the state per child, what it costs to educate a kid in the mainstream, he could educate em to the level that his fee payers got

 

[mickbrown]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

Doesn’t suit the narrative, Malcolm 

Lottery funded. 

“Independent” when it suits

[only1swanny]

There used to be an assisted place scheme which was scrapped by the Blair government. If a child passed the exam they could go to a school such as Bolton school and the school would subsidise the fees.

The schools now open to all, if you pass the exam, they look at your family income and will assist with fee's. Some kids get a full scholarship. These tax loops and reinvestment of finances pay for that..

People from disadvantages backgrounds being allowed to go to a Private school? People from poor backgrounds breaking the cycle of poverty.. Where have I heard that before.... It's one of the main educational focuses of ofsted. (Pupil premium if you are wondering). 

A charity is such, if there are no shareholders getting rich from it, no highly paid directors, and any "profits" are used to benefit others. These loopholes are employed to get the best kids through, regardless of background. If that isn't there to break the cycle, what is?

 

As for training their own teachers.. the government has allowed non qualified teachers to teach. A 21 year old can can teach without ever stepping foot in a classroom. Your kid could be being taught by a teacher that has no idea what they are doing..  Teachers don't pass a uni based PGCE without a fair standard of teaching ability.  But these unqualified teachers have no idea whats best for kids, or how to get them to learn. 

 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

should private schools not train their own teachers?

 

anyway, once heard a private school governor/head, whatever on the wireless

he said that if his school was paid directly by the state per child, what it costs to educate a kid in the mainstream, he could educate em to the level that his fee payers got

 

If they're teaching the same curriculum and have the same training then theoretically they should be able to.

Teachers, just like other folk have different qualities and some will be better than others.

Perhaps private schools can afford to offer better ones a higher salary.

Or maybe offer better facilities, away from the academic side of things.

 

[only1swanny]

Private school teachers are no better than mainstream teachers, infact, possibly not as honed in their pedagogical approach to teaching.I know of teachers in private schools that teach from a textbook. You can't do that when you have a mixed class of kids, some with complex issues, where you have to get the best from all.

"When i started teaching in a private school, it was like going to heaven", a quote from a teacher that moved from mainstream. Kids do better as there are less behaviour issues, more support from home and smaller class sizes.. 

I'd not suit a private school and I make no qualms about that, my area of expertise is lower ability kids and SEN, it's very different to teaching in a selective school. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Private school teachers are no better than mainstream teachers, infact, possibly not as honed in their pedagogical approach to teaching.I know of teachers in private schools that teach from a textbook. You can't do that when you have a mixed class of kids, some with complex issues, where you have to get the best from all.

"When i started teaching in a private school, it was like going to heaven", a quote from a teacher that moved from mainstream. Kids do better as there are less behaviour issues, more support from home and smaller class sizes.. 

I'd not suit a private school and I make no qualms about that, my area of expertise is lower ability kids and SEN, it's very different to teaching in a selective school. 

Quite. Private schools will employ individuals who best suit their aims. The word "best" I suppose depends upon what you are expecting/needing.

I'm glad you mentioned the selective bit, the behaviour issues etc.

Another good reason for their existence, and indeed changes to state school system.

[only1swanny]

You will never get rid of behavioural issues in mainstream schools and to even attempt to would be detrimental to their running. THe only way to bring some students in line is to surround them with positive role models and show them what they are capable of. 

 

With that said some do need to be in alternative provision, 

The major problem atm, in my view, is telling kids they have to pass English and Maths and making them resit this over and over again until they do. Far too much focus on the main topics and not about a well rounded education. 

A kids from an independent school with 11 good GCSE's, will always get a job/college place/apprenticeship over a mainstream kid that has only been able to do 7 or 8, as their school wanted to focus on the main subjects (in order to look better on performance targets). 

[MickyD]

8 hours ago, only1swanny said:

There used to be an assisted place scheme which was scrapped by the Blair government. If a child passed the exam they could go to a school such as Bolton school and the school would subsidise the fees.

The schools now open to all, if you pass the exam, they look at your family income and will assist with fee's. Some kids get a full scholarship. These tax loops and reinvestment of finances pay for that..

People from disadvantages backgrounds being allowed to go to a Private school? People from poor backgrounds breaking the cycle of poverty.. Where have I heard that before.... It's one of the main educational focuses of ofsted. (Pupil premium if you are wondering). 

A charity is such, if there are no shareholders getting rich from it, no highly paid directors, and any "profits" are used to benefit others. These loopholes are employed to get the best kids through, regardless of background. If that isn't there to break the cycle, what is?

 

As for training their own teachers.. the government has allowed non qualified teachers to teach. A 21 year old can can teach without ever stepping foot in a classroom. Your kid could be being taught by a teacher that has no idea what they are doing..  Teachers don't pass a uni based PGCE without a fair standard of teaching ability.  But these unqualified teachers have no idea whats best for kids, or how to get them to learn. 

 

 

A former colleague's daughter got an assisted place at Bolton School. I think they ended up paying 50%, still a hefty lump from a fireman wage plus his wife's earnings. The issue wasn't the schooling though, it was the extra stuff; skiing and cultural trips abroad that most parents could afford but the assisted placed kids couldn't. So it was still a divided culture with the haves and have nots.

[Ani]

£45k per year to go to Eton. Average assistance is 65% so you need to find £15k per year. That assumes you get assistance. As Micky says trips etc are extra. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Trip issues. Not exclusive to private schools.

Some of the ones at my lads school are out of our each financially.

 

[bwfcfan5]

18 hours ago, MalcolmW said:

It simply isn't true that they don't do much for the wider public.

Eton had an all weather athletics track built over its previous (private) cinder track, and made it open to the public outside school usage. It is the home of one of the British Athletics League teams and is regularly used for open meetings.

Sorry but the point is that their "wider societal benefit KPIs" are well below that of a regular charity. Sadly they won their case to avoid proper scrutiny by the charity commission. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Not all charities are the same and can't be compared. They undertake different work, have different levels of attainment etc. By the heck, some of them even employ prozzy shaggers.

Doesn't mean they should be shut down because of a few individuals.

[bwfcfan5]

21 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not all charities are the same and can't be compared. They undertake different work, have different levels of attainment etc. By the heck, some of them even employ prozzy shaggers.

Doesn't mean they should be shut down because of a few individuals.

But all have a burden of proof on their establishment and level of monitoring that private schools are exempt from because they fought against such scrutiny. 

 

[ZiggyStardust]

18 hours ago, Casino said:

should private schools not train their own teachers?

 

anyway, once heard a private school governor/head, whatever on the wireless

he said that if his school was paid directly by the state per child, what it costs to educate a kid in the mainstream, he could educate em to the level that his fee payers got

 

Should employers have to pay the government back if they employ someone with a degree ? Or someone who learned their trade in the public sector ?

Or is it only university educated & in-school trained teachers going into the private sector that you have a problem with ?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But all have a burden of proof on their establishment and level of monitoring that private schools are exempt from because they fought against such scrutiny. 

 

Then lobby your mp, outline your anguish, and try to get the law changed to ensure sufficient scrutiny.

[bwfcfan5]

14 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Then lobby your mp, outline your anguish, and try to get the law changed to ensure sufficient scrutiny.

I am simply presented a clear and coherent case for why their charitable status is definitely open to question....

[miamiwhite]

4 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But all have a burden of proof on their establishment and level of monitoring that private schools are exempt from because they fought against such scrutiny. 

 

If that’s a fact, what’s your thoughts on this ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49598026

Apologies in advance but interested to hear your view on this.

[only1swanny]

BTW..

 

A teacher pays for their training.. not directly the tax payer.. 

Some get bursaries, but that's the governments fault for not golden handcuffing them..

I got nothing FWIW, I teach maths

[Casino]

9 hours ago, ZiggyStardust said:

 

Or is it only university educated & in-school trained teachers going into the private sector that you have a problem with ?

Medical staff as well

Amongst others

[Guest]

On 25/09/2019 at 22:22, Casino said:

Medical staff as well

Amongst others

How do feel about Doctos who are trained here and then bugger off to work abroad?

[Casino]

Same way as i feel about teachers

[only1swanny]

massive demand for teachers over in the UAE..

No tax, lodgings paid, high wages and better working conditions.. 

[frank_spencer]

On 27/09/2019 at 10:00, boltondiver said:

How do feel about Doctos who are trained here and then bugger off to work abroad?

Must be something me and the missus do to them we've had 2 GPs leave to go to Canada in the past few years.

The current one says he wants to join them but his missus won't let him