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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Private schools


globaldiver

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Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Re read the previous discussion. Not advocating boxing anyone off.

Providing the best pathway for all kids. If that means transferred between the two so be it.

You only relate to a previous system; not a modern version.

 

You can't have a two pronged system that isn't about "boxing off". The reality is that the modern world requires a different education. And its shown that inclusivity is the best way to do it. Kids learn a lot from each other so having a mix is better than taking the top achievers at an arbitrary age and just leaving the rest. There is no sense in separating off - because the world of "vocational" vs "academic" increasingly doesn't exist. The base skills set is the same all round. 

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29 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

?

Costs alone.

All the kids would need to be educated in state schools. Hence costs go up.

If folk can afford to pay, let them. Take pressure off the system.

Maybe private schools ought to train their own teachers

Take even more pressure off

Similarly, private health

No wonder you wait forever for a consultant, they're all doing 6 hours a week at the beaumont and playing golf the rest

Edited by Casino
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1 hour ago, Traf said:

By using the phrase, "According to the Bible..."

There is a possibility that Gonzo Junior did only quote part of what he was told. After all, he's only 6/7?

My daughter goes to a non-religious (tick), Grammar School (tick) and she's doing RS to GCSE as they are taught about lots of different faiths and each individuals book of faith (all fictional bullshit IMO, but that's another discussion for another day), so she gets told that...

...according to the Bible / Koran / Book of Mormon / Rothman's yearbook etc etc...

Is it more of an open debate though, could your young un argue the points they are teaching, or is it a case of according to the bible your opinion is wrong unless you agree with the bible?

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2 hours ago, Traf said:

I'd have to disagree based on my own personal experience.

My daughter goes to a grammar school here in Rossendale and as it's a school who chooses its intake purely on an academical basis, there seems to be far fewer "wasters" at the school. I'm not saying the teaching is better, but it has got to be a better place to learn at than at the local comp where half the class just want to piss about.

The 4 local Primary schools in our village are all classed as outstanding, which is great 

The one with the highest ranking chooses its kids based on their parents being arsed to take them to church 26 weeks out of 52 in the lead up to admission 

Clearly, parents willing to sacrifice so many Sunday’s will put more effort into assisting the children through the whole educational process 

I’d imagine whilst it’s technically free for any parent to play the system this way it will mainly be middle class parents putting a shift in every Sunday to get into that school

Its not for me like 

 

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Interestingly Canterbury High School has a stream where if you haven't passed the Kent Test but are in the top set for English, Maths and Science you then go and study these subjects with the children at my daughter's school, but still remain at the High School. Which shows a flexibility at least to not everyone developing at the same rate and not everyone being successful at passing these 'general' test yet still being academically able.

However, because the school has a reputation (ie its the largest non-grammar and non-religious school in the borough) parents fight tooth and nail to get them into the other schools, which means the intake is self-selecting. 

Personally when I looked round I thought it was much better than the Catholic school my ex-wife put down as second choice if she didn't pass her 11-plus.

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2 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Condescension still your strong point I see, NIC. Polish those elbow patches matey. Friction can be a bastard.

I wasn't condescending - I was just making a simple point about your lack of recent experience in this area, set against your robust beliefs.

Maybe listening instead of hollering might mean you don't make knee jerk comments or assumptions about what is best for UK kids in 2019?

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18 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Not many have answered the question, though; is it right that Private schools be banned?

Its a terrible idea by the lunatic fringe of Labour (sadly said fringe run the party). I can't see it becoming policy but then you just never know. 

I don't see why they should have charitable status though. That seems to be a bit absurd. 

 

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49 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Not many have answered the question, though; is it right that Private schools be banned?

No, how people want to spend their money is up to them - but this due deference we seem to have in the country (and the unwarranted self-confidence of those that attend such institutions) needs to be addressed; as does the old school tie network. 

I daily deal with those who feel that their opinion should be heard because they come from money and went to the 'right' schools; and they are no cleverer and have no more experience than others round the table.

 

Sorry: quick edit - I see Cambridge today has the highest number of state pupils ever, but its still not even half. Going to Oxbridge or other top unis should not only be the for the richest.

 

Edited by Not in Crawley
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47 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Not many have answered the question, though; is it right that Private schools be banned?

No, of course it isn't.

People should be free to spend their money how they wish.

We're not North Korea.

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46 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

 Sorry: quick edit - I see Cambridge today has the highest number of state pupils ever, but its still not even half. Going to Oxbridge or other top unis should not only be the for the richest.

 

It's not half! It's 68%.

Oxford has got back up to 60.5%. It was 60% over 50 years ago before most grammar schools were integrated into comprehensives. Since then low expectations and political bias by many teachers has reduced the proportion of working class entrants.

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1 hour ago, boltondiver said:

Not many have answered the question, though; is it right that Private schools be banned?

I was fortunate to be the beneficiary of a private education for at least part of my life and I would not want others to be deprived of that opportunity in the same way that my children have benefitted from a Grammar School education. I know at the time my children didn't appreciate the extra work required to sit entrance exams and the expectation of them from their teachers but they often reflect back now and feel very fortunate for that opportunity 

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13 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

How many young people from state schools apply to Oxford and Cambridge and get knocked back? 

More than say Manchester Uni 

Not sure how it is now, but I sat extra lessons in order to prepare for Oxbridge entrance exam.

Fucked it off, as I found it too much.

If it is still the same, then it's difficult to compare, as a higher level of academic achievement is required, compared to Manchester for example.

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13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not sure how it is now, but I sat extra lessons in order to prepare for Oxbridge entrance exam.

Fucked it off, as I found it too much.

If it is still the same, then it's difficult to compare, as a higher level of academic achievement is required, compared to Manchester for example.

My nephew attended St Hilda's College at Oxford for 3 years and hated every minute of it

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There's fuck all chance I'm paying to send my lad to Grammar school.

If he really wants to go on a scholarship then I won't stand in his way.

If my dealings with Bury Grammar and Bolton School are owt to go by I'll want to deck the majority of parents within a week.

Those I know who went to private school got fuck all benefit from it.

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1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said:

My nephew attended St Hilda's College at Oxford for 3 years and hated every minute of it

Why?

My missus packed reading uni in- hated it- but tutor told her to have a break first. She did, gave it a second shot and got a first.

Didn't particularly enjoy it; don't suppose you can ever know until you go.

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48 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

It's not half! It's 68%.

Oxford has got back up to 60.5%. It was 60% over 50 years ago before most grammar schools were integrated into comprehensives. Since then low expectations and political bias by many teachers has reduced the proportion of working class entrants.

Don’t quote facts to the expert Malc, he’ll only have a fit if you do.

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Oxbridge only accepts the top quality candidates.

Sending Thicky Braydon from the rough estate just to hit some ridiculous equality target is batshit mental.

You wouldn't let some club-footed, 28 stone diabetic play for Bolton just because it ticks a box with the liberals.

Actually....

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Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why?

My missus packed reading uni in- hated it- but tutor told her to have a break first. She did, gave it a second shot and got a first.

Didn't particularly enjoy it; don't suppose you can ever know until you go.

The pressure of work and expectation of him was simply too much. He had to research and write 2 x 1500 word essays every week with some limited access to the college's library and although he enjoyed the social life, probably too much at times, he won't look back with fond memories, his mental health suffered as a result. Having said that if it wasn't for his tutor he wouldn't have survived the 3 years and with her support he went on to win the Herbertson Prize that year 

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2 minutes ago, Spider said:

Oxbridge only accepts the top quality candidates.

Sending Thicky Braydon from the rough estate just to hit some ridiculous equality target is batshit mental.

You wouldn't let some club-footed, 28 stone diabetic play for Bolton just because it ticks a box with the liberals.

Actually....

Ian Marshall did ok for us.

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4 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The pressure of work and expectation of him was simply too much. He had to research and write 2 x 1500 word essays every week with some limited access to the college's library and although he enjoyed the social life, probably too much at times, he won't look back with fond memories, his mental health suffered as a result. Having said that if it wasn't for his tutor he wouldn't have survived the 3 years and with her support he went on to win the Herbertson Prize that year 

Fair enough. We all have our limits.

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21 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The pressure of work and expectation of him was simply too much. He had to research and write 2 x 1500 word essays every week with some limited access to the college's library and although he enjoyed the social life, probably too much at times, he won't look back with fond memories, his mental health suffered as a result. Having said that if it wasn't for his tutor he wouldn't have survived the 3 years and with her support he went on to win the Herbertson Prize that year 

In my era Warneford got a higher proportion of firsts than any college (and that was the mental hospital). Nowadays the intensity of workload has increased substantially.

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