The Times article - Eddie Davies

[Traf]

26 minutes ago, bolton va va said:

The Bob Taylor game was on the date of some munich anniversary & there were all sorts of threats from the authorities - cctv trained on us, names to each ticket, plain clothes police amongst us, life bans,etc, etc. There was an idea for everyone to stay outside until the game started but in the end, it was too much of a hassle & loads gave it a miss.

40th Anniversary?

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Burndens Bogs said:

That FA cup game in 1991 when we took 10k to O.T, Man U lads didn't show anywhere.

Bolton did have a monster mob out that day though and they turned up very early.

Man U did not expect us to show, said it on here before but walking down Matt busby way that day mob handed with 200 plus lads was superb, made better by united lads frothing at the mouth on the other side of the road, did they fancy it, did they fuck. Top mob that day, 28 years ago WTF!!

Edited September 29, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Roger_Dubuis]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Man U did not expect us to show, said it on here before but walking down Matt busby way that day mob handed with 200 plus lads was superb, made better by united lads frothing at the mouth on the other side of the road, did they fancy it, did they fuck. Top mob that day, 28 years ago WTF!!

You are probably right, Man Utd had a top firm at that time.Nothing happened in 95/96 at Man Utd because away fans were excluded and of course '96 at Bolton was hairy for Man Utd to say the least.In response to what happened on Black Sunday, Man Utd sent everything they could muster to the Reebok for the next match, i'd say a good 400- 500 strong Man Utd firm marched down Chorley New Road from Horwich and did a right at the Beehive towards the ground.Bolton didn't have the numbers to take that on but there was  smaller scale scrapping around the Horwich pubs for a few hours after the match.The Bob Taylor match was later that season.

The last meeting before the Fa Cup tie was for a league match in 1980 when they swamped Burnden Park at Easter with over half the crowd.They were challenging for the title and won every match from then till the final day at....Elland Road. cue 20,000 Man Utd fans in a 42,000 gate at Leeds.That was a horrible day for Leeds with mobs of Man Utd singing and scrapping with them in their Kop, Leeds won the match and Liverpool the title mind.

[Mounts Kipper]

17 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

You are probably right, Man Utd had a top firm at that time.Nothing happened in 95/96 at Man Utd because away fans were excluded and of course '96 at Bolton was hairy for Man Utd to say the least.In response to what happened on Black Sunday, Man Utd sent everything they could muster to the Reebok for the next match, i'd say a good 400- 500 strong Man Utd firm marched down Chorley New Road from Horwich and did a right at the Beehive towards the ground.Bolton didn't have the numbers to take that on but there was  smaller scale scrapping around the Horwich pubs for a few hours after the match.The Bob Taylor match was later that season.

The last meeting before the Fa Cup tie was for a league match in 1980 when they swamped Burnden Park at Easter with over half the crowd.They were challenging for the title and won every match from then till the final day at....Elland Road. cue 20,000 Man Utd fans in a 42,000 gate at Leeds.That was a horrible day for Leeds with mobs of Man Utd singing and scrapping with them in their Kop, Leeds won the match and Liverpool the title mind.

I was at the greenwood that day pre match we knew they were in Horwich (think they were in the bridge didn’t a well know united lad run it) and while we had good numbers outside the greenwood, it was clear as they walked up from Horwich we didn’t have the numbers to take them on, at the front of the United mob were my brother in laws brothers, well known LH lads, didn’t go to Horwich afterwards so can’t talk about after the game. Which game was the one when Bolton and united clashed at Bolton station? We heard they were going up Halliwell that day, so we headed there, then we heard that all hell had broke out at Bolton station. I was in the south stand 95/96 with a good number of Bolton who somehow got tickets in there, was also at Burnden in 1980, but that wasn’t as bad a day as 1975 at Burnden, that day scarred me for life. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Casino]

Wasnt bolton station the 2-2

Last minute equaliser for them??

[Roger_Dubuis]

4 minutes ago, Casino said:

Wasnt bolton station the 2-2

Last minute equaliser for them??

 A different last minute equaliser....2002/03

[Marc505]

Roger how come you're so familiar with the life and times of United's mob?

[Traf]

he's a red.

[Burndens Bogs]

How strange coming on a BWFC forum to constantly big up Man Yoo's mob.

Yeh they've got the numbers blah blah, but they don't always have it all their own way.

Anyway, back to the football.

[BOWTUN BAKED]

6 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

I think Bob Taylor day was the day Man Utd had 300 lads in 2 pubs near Salford Crescent because Bolton had advised they would be landing there.In the event Bolton didn't show.Miami can probably confirm

God knows what they were doing in the pub, the pubs weren't open at that time in the morning when Bolton pulled into Salford Crescent & no Munichs were to be seen

[Chris Custodiet]

Anyway back to the Times article. It says that Bolton lost the game 1-0 when Eddie was guest of the Man U chairman. PG didn't tell me which game or the result but there hadn't been many in the previous ten years and I had  figured that it was most likely the Bob Taylor match.

We had lost 1-0 at OT in an FA Cup tie in 1991 (which I had attended) but that seemed too distant and there had been a golden opportunity to buy a stake in 1993 when the club was buzzing and had a share issue to raise the  funds to buy David Lee from Southampton.

£60K would have bought a15% stake in 1993 and possibly a seat on the board as it did with Brian Scowcroft, one of the most vociferous objectors in 2003 when, according to the Times article, Eddie 'was invited by the board to take full control'. To put it another way, the club needed Eddie's money to keep paying the wages and have any chance of maintaining Premiership status which it did for the next nine years at  a cost to Eddie, at that time, of c.£100m.

[bwfcfan5]

6 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Anyway back to the Times article. It says that Bolton lost the game 1-0 when Eddie was guest of the Man U chairman. PG didn't tell me which game or the result but there hadn't been many in the previous ten years and I had  figured that it was most likely the Bob Taylor match.

We had lost 1-0 at OT in an FA Cup tie in 1991 (which I had attended) but that seemed too distant and there had been a golden opportunity to buy a stake in 1993 when the club was buzzing and had a share issue to raise the  funds to buy David Lee from Southampton.

£60K would have bought a15% stake in 1993 and possibly a seat on the board as it did with Brian Scowcroft, one of the most vociferous objectors in 2003 when, according to the Times article, Eddie 'was invited by the board to take full control'. To put it another way, the club needed Eddie's money to keep paying the wages and have any chance of maintaining Premiership status which it did for the next nine years at  a cost to Eddie, at that time, of c.£100m.

It was 91! I spoke to PG about ED a couple of times and he said he spent almost 10 years from having met him trying to persuade him to get involved!

[Chris Custodiet]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

It was 91! I spoke to PG about ED a couple of times and he said he spent almost 10 years from having met him trying to persuade him to get involved!

I'm sure you are right. Its a long time since my discussion with PG but there are aspects of it that I recall quite clearly and, as it comes back to me, PG did indicate a lengthy delay between his first discussion with Eddie and Eddie actually getting involved.

[Mounts Kipper]

11 hours ago, BOWTUN BAKED said:

God knows what they were doing in the pub, the pubs weren't open at that time in the morning when Bolton pulled into Salford Crescent & no Munichs were to be seen

The day we beat them 2-1 at old Trafford we were on Deansgate in the pig and porcupine from about 12 o’clock, police found out and lock us in until 2.30 then marched us all over the place to OT while sporadic bricks and bottles were aimed in our direction, missed the kick off arrived just in time to see veron score, what a brilliant day that was and probably enjoyed it more than the 1978 win when frankie scored 2. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[MalcolmW]

2 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I'm sure you are right. Its a long time since my discussion with PG but there are aspects of it that I recall quite clearly and, as it comes back to me, PG did indicate a lengthy delay between his first discussion with Eddie and Eddie actually getting involved.

I think that ED pointed out to PG that there were flaws in the financial model adopted by BWFC and that it would eventually lead to a crisis. When crisis did come in 2001 PG approached ED to see if his previous unquantified offer of help was still available. It was, but ED wanted full control, which he duly vested in PG.

[bwfcfan5]

3 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

I think that ED pointed out to PG that there were flaws in the financial model adopted by BWFC and that it would eventually lead to a crisis. When crisis did come in 2001 PG approached ED to see if his previous unquantified offer of help was still available. It was, but ED wanted full control, which he duly vested in PG.

ED became director in 1999. Which was the time we were in a big financial mess, Todd walked out after player sales and PG assumed control....

By 2001 we were in the premiership. ED was still not exactly putting a lot in at that point - his main contribution was money for the academy. 

[Take Hunt Off]

13 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

You are probably right, Man Utd had a top firm at that time.Nothing happened in 95/96 at Man Utd because away fans were excluded and of course '96 at Bolton was hairy for Man Utd to say the least.In response to what happened on Black Sunday, Man Utd sent everything they could muster to the Reebok for the next match, i'd say a good 400- 500 strong Man Utd firm marched down Chorley New Road from Horwich and did a right at the Beehive towards the ground.Bolton didn't have the numbers to take that on but there was  smaller scale scrapping around the Horwich pubs for a few hours after the match.The Bob Taylor match was later that season.

The last meeting before the Fa Cup tie was for a league match in 1980 when they swamped Burnden Park at Easter with over half the crowd.They were challenging for the title and won every match from then till the final day at....Elland Road. cue 20,000 Man Utd fans in a 42,000 gate at Leeds.That was a horrible day for Leeds with mobs of Man Utd singing and scrapping with them in their Kop, Leeds won the match and Liverpool the title mind.

Its was organised from the Bridge the landladys son being a red invited all of Salfords notrights .There was plenty going on that evening & the pub became a bit of a trouble magnet after that so much so the council imposed bouncer control on the doors .Bet the landlady was chuffed her son had stitched her up with that one ......heyho lessons learned.

[Chris Custodiet]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

ED became director in 1999. Which was the time we were in a big financial mess, Todd walked out after player sales and PG assumed control....

By 2001 we were in the premiership. ED was still not exactly putting a lot in at that point - his main contribution was money for the academy. 

The club was plainly under significant financial stress in 1999 but I cannot see how PG could have 'assumed control'. It seems to me more likely that the new money from Davies and Speakman was, in effect, conditional upon regime change. The old regime had done their best and tbf presided over the complete regeneration of the club but new money (and new drive?) was needed and they did not seem to be in a position to provide it.

Gordon Shorrock was close to the old regime, it later emerging that he was on distinctly unfriendly terms with PG. Whether that was influenced by these or other events, I could not say.

Did it affect the reporting? Maybe so, maybe not, but some of the crass reporting that later emerged could only be put down to fundamental failures at the BEN to understand the levels of support ED provided over the years.

But it is true that prior to 2003, ED's financial support was on a smaller scale than it was later. Although his shares in Strix were increasing in value year-on-year there's no evidence that he had a mountain of cash or readily realisable investments until 2005 when he retired at a relatively young age selling most of his Strix shares for c. £100m.

[Casino]

what happened to mosaic

what did they get out of the 'reverse takeover'

whatever that means

 

[Mannyroader]

Rather sad to see a thread started to respectfully remember Eddie Davies being hijacked by some of our toy soldiers. Still, respect for others was never a strong point with them.

[bwfcfan5]

7 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

The club was plainly under significant financial stress in 1999 but I cannot see how PG could have 'assumed control'. It seems to me more likely that the new money from Davies and Speakman was, in effect, conditional upon regime change. The old regime had done their best and tbf presided over the complete regeneration of the club but new money (and new drive?) was needed and they did not seem to be in a position to provide it.

Gordon Shorrock was close to the old regime, it later emerging that he was on distinctly unfriendly terms with PG. Whether that was influenced by these or other events, I could not say.

Did it affect the reporting? Maybe so, maybe not, but some of the crass reporting that later emerged could only be put down to fundamental failures at the BEN to understand the levels of support ED provided over the years.

But it is true that prior to 2003, ED's financial support was on a smaller scale than it was later. Although his shares in Strix were increasing in value year-on-year there's no evidence that he had a mountain of cash or readily realisable investments until 2005 when he retired at a relatively young age selling most of his Strix shares for c. £100m.

Yeah assumed control was shorthand for "elected chairman" by the new board. 

[Chris Custodiet]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

what happened to mosaic

what did they get out of the 'reverse takeover'

whatever that means

 

Up wi t'rocket and down wi t'stick. Nowt to do with ED, though some still try to make out that it did.

[Sluffy]

Just now, Chris Custodiet said:

Up wi t'rocket and down wi t'stick. Nowt to do with ED, though some still try to make out that it did.

Correct as per usual Chris.

The initial link below is to an autobiography of a Wanderers fan and accountant Gerald Hayes who explains what happened briefly at the time leading up to the introduction of the Eddie Davies era.  The following two links I've added gives much more context to why it happened and the financial problems that followed.

For those not wishing to read the link below, what appears to happen was a cash rich company, quoted on the stock exchange allowed itself to be taken over by the newly established Burnden Leisure by Gordon Hargreaves - hence the 'reverse take over' and allowing BL to become instantly public listed.

This was done as an apparent(?) investment opportunity whereby Mosaic was cash rich and used that money to invest in the club.  The bloke in charge of Mosaic, David Williams, then became the Chair of BL and another director of Mosaic became BL Group's Finance Director - both getting a huge golden 'hello' bonus for doing all this.

Of course it all seemed a bit too good to be true and it ended in tears with the club facing oblivion until Eddie saved us for the first time!

Why then did Mosaic/Williams in effect fund the building of the Reebok Stadium (as it was initially named) in partnership with Hargreaves?

All seemed a bit odd at the time and I've added a link below from a personal opinion of those events from the writers father from a Vital Bolton article some weeks in advance of Holdsworth and Anderson's takeover.

Who says lightening doesn't strike twice?

Link to Gerald Hayes autobiography - Tales of a Wanderer

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ce1cAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=bolton+wanderers+mosaic&source=bl&ots=ETZivJ2cyt&sig=ACfU3U3WKZml0XHIch0G8_QyUbIrNYW2kA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPi8fZzvjkAhWNRBUIHfpGDX4Q6AEwG3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=bolton wanderers mosaic&f=false

Link to Bolton News article on criticism of David Williams pay packet! -

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/6165789.chairman-defends-100000-pay-packet/

Link to the Vital Bolton article -

https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/bwfc-the-dodgy-deal-that-mustnt-be-repeated/

[RoadRunnerFan]

5 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Correct as per usual Chris.

The initial link below is to an autobiography of a Wanderers fan and accountant Gerald Hayes who explains what happened briefly at the time leading up to the introduction of the Eddie Davies era. 

Link to Gerald Hayes autobiography - Tales of a Wanderer

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ce1cAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=bolton+wanderers+mosaic&source=bl&ots=ETZivJ2cyt&sig=ACfU3U3WKZml0XHIch0G8_QyUbIrNYW2kA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPi8fZzvjkAhWNRBUIHfpGDX4Q6AEwG3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=bolton wanderers mosaic&f=false

 

Gerry appears to be another with a suspect memory. 

The first goal at the Reebok was v Spurs not Arsenal. It wasn't the following game either as we had a nil nil v the rags in the second game. (P168).

Are you sure that this is reliable source material Sluffster? 

Edited September 30, 2019 by RoadRunnerFan

[Morizio]

26 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Gerry appears to be another with a suspect memory. 

The first goal at the Reebok was v Spurs not Arsenal. It wasn't the following game either as we had a nil nil v the rags in the second game. (P168).

Are you sure that this is reliable source material Sluffster? 

Are you suggesting the condescending twats are actually ignorant of the important stuff, being the football?