The Times article - Eddie Davies

[RoadRunnerFan]

1 minute ago, Morizio said:

Are you suggesting the condescending twats are actually ignorant of the important stuff, being the football?

You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment. 

[Morizio]

36 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment. 

Sterling work on showing their arses👍

[Sluffy]

4 hours ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Gerry appears to be another with a suspect memory. 

The first goal at the Reebok was v Spurs not Arsenal. It wasn't the following game either as we had a nil nil v the rags in the second game. (P168).

Are you sure that this is reliable source material Sluffster? 

Yes, I do.

I provided the link specifically in relation to his comments on Mosaic, the information contained in it is confirmed as per these articles in the Bolton News and the Independent at the time (links below) which I could have equally posted up of Mr Haye's but chose his instead as being a more interesting, insightful and personal read on the matter, which I thought the few readers on here who would actually read the link would enjoy more.

Seems pretty sad of you to go to the bother of actually reading the link then go on to post what you did in order to 'score a point' against me for some extremely petty inaccuracy he went on to make on footballing trivia (he said Arsenal when he clearly meant Spurs ffs!) which does not detract in anyway from the Mosaic reverse takeover.

I've always held the greatest of respect for your views and comments in the past, I'll know better from now on.

Anyway the contemporary Bolton News and the Independent links -

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/6183593.amp/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bolton-wanderers-agrees-pounds-22m-takeover-by-mosaic-1264945.html

 

[Morizio]

and as expected the teddy is thrown out of the pram by the prima donna stuffy, how long before cuntodiet is caught on the line?

[RoadRunnerFan]

6 hours ago, Sluffy said:

 

Seems pretty sad of you to go to the bother of actually reading the link then go on to post what you did in order to 'score a point' against me for some extremely petty inaccuracy he went on to make on footballing trivia (he said Arsenal when he clearly meant Spurs ffs!) which does not detract in anyway from the Mosaic reverse takeover.

I've always held the greatest of respect for your views and comments in the past, I'll know better from now on.

I read the link because I was interested and didn't know anything about what happened around that time, so thanks for providing it, I was still at school in 97 (just). The two innacuracies (Arsenal and omitting the Man U game) were on the next available page and stood out to me. 

Don't get too offended on Mr Hayes behalf, clearly you have a respect for facts which is not shared by his publishers. 

Don't you see the irony in a book about supporting a football club getting the football bits wrong? 

[Chris Custodiet]

7 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Yes, I do.

I provided the link specifically in relation to his comments on Mosaic, the information contained in it is confirmed as per these articles in the Bolton News and the Independent at the time (links below) which I could have equally posted up of Mr Haye's but chose his instead as being a more interesting, insightful and personal read on the matter, which I thought the few readers on here who would actually read the link would enjoy more.

Seems pretty sad of you to go to the bother of actually reading the link then go on to post what you did in order to 'score a point' against me for some extremely petty inaccuracy he went on to make on footballing trivia (he said Arsenal when he clearly meant Spurs ffs!) which does not detract in anyway from the Mosaic reverse takeover.

I've always held the greatest of respect for your views and comments in the past, I'll know better from now on.

Anyway the contemporary Bolton News and the Independent links -

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/6183593.amp/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bolton-wanderers-agrees-pounds-22m-takeover-by-mosaic-1264945.html

 

RRF has  always  seemed like a bit of a dime-store to me. I'd have expected better but I honestly can't recall him ever coming up with anything thought out or original. Ask him a question and he dives for cover. 

Morizio's on a different level. He reminds me of an overtired kid trying to gain attention by screaming and throwing tantrums whilst the grown ups are trying to have a conversation.

Anyway thanks for the links. I have a copy of Gerald Hayes book and by far the most interesting bit concerns the Mosaic reverse takeover. There was one guy at the AGM last year complaining to KA that it was  ED's fault that he'd lost £900K.

it was nonsense. He'd spent £10K on shares in 1993 and these shares rocketed to about £850K on the Mosaic merger. It was only temporary, of course. The shares had a consistently downward trajectory and weren't worth a lot when Eddie took over in 2003. If he'd had a bit more savvy he'd  have cashed in when Gerald did and got back his £10K and a tidy profit whilst the going was good. The directors couldn't. They weren't allowed to sell their shares for two years and just had to watch as they plummeted.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[Sluffy]

3 hours ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

I read the link because I was interested and didn't know anything about what happened around that time, so thanks for providing it, I was still at school in 97 (just). The two innacuracies (Arsenal and omitting the Man U game) were on the next available page and stood out to me. 

Don't get too offended on Mr Hayes behalf, clearly you have a respect for facts which is not shared by his publishers. 

Don't you see the irony in a book about supporting a football club getting the football bits wrong? 

No I don't but I do see the irony of someone foolish enough to be jumping to the wrong conclusion based on reading just a couple of pages out of over 200 from the authors autobiography that the book is about his support of the football club - it's not, although that's an important part of it.  It is, as all autobiography's are, about an account of his life.

There's twenty odd chapters in his book of which only a couple are specifically Wanderers related, the Bolton Wanderers content of it is significantly less than a fifth of it.

Seems I have respect for facts not shared by Mr Hayes book critics, as well.

For your information Mr Hayes was about 78 years old when he wrote the book, it was first published in 2013, and passed away just four years later at the age of 82, at the Whites Hotel, the day after the Reading match.

https://www.witneygazette.co.uk/announcements/deaths/deaths/15632348.Gerald_HAYES/

RIP.

[Roger_Dubuis]

Hayes is an unfortunate surname for an author of a book about BWFC since Dean Hayes who wrote a few books about the club was jailed for child sex offences.From the obituary provided by Sluffy it seems the surname is just a coincidence and Dean isn't a  relative.

Anyway back to the shares/year end accounts etc..

[Burndens Bogs]

6 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Hayes is an unfortunate surname for an author of a book about BWFC since Dean Hayes who wrote a few books about the club was jailed for child sex offences.From the obituary provided by Sluffy it seems the surname is just a coincidence and Dean isn't a  relative.

Anyway back to talking about Man U etc..

Signed - Red  Roger Dubious

Edited October 1, 2019 by Burndens Bogs

[MickyD]

3 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Hayes is an unfortunate surname for an author of a book about BWFC since Dean Hayes who wrote a few books about the club was jailed for child sex offences.From the obituary provided by Sluffy it seems the surname is just a coincidence and Dean isn't a  relative.

Anyway back to the shares/year end accounts etc..

Or Eddie Davies

[MancWanderer]

On 30/09/2019 at 10:11, Mounts Kipper said:

the 1978 win when frankie scored 2. 

No day (or night) will ever beat that game for me

[Burndens Bogs]

9 minutes ago, MancWanderer said:

No day (or night) will ever beat that game for me

Hmm,Blackburn away in '78/ Hull away/Anfield/Highbury/Reading in the Play -off finals/Bayern are all up there for me.

'Twas a special night though agreed.I've seen us win at O.T. 3 times in my lifetime, The Worthy,The Nolan and The Ricketts.

[RoadRunnerFan]

9 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

RRF has  always  seemed like a bit of a dime-store to me. I'd have expected better but I honestly can't recall him ever coming up with anything thought out or original. Ask him a question and he dives for cover.

I'd rather be thought of as above than considered the site's condescender-in-chief.

 

6 hours ago, Sluffy said:

No I don't but I do see the irony of someone foolish enough to be jumping to the wrong conclusion based on reading just a couple of pages out of over 200 from the authors autobiography that the book is about his support of the football club - it's not, although that's an important part of it.  It is, as all autobiography's are, about an account of his life.

There's twenty odd chapters in his book of which only a couple are specifically Wanderers related, the Bolton Wanderers content of it is significantly less than a fifth of it.

Seems I have respect for facts not shared by Mr Hayes book critics, as well.

I read two pages as I pointed out previously. If less than 20 percent of the book relates to BWFC, may I respectfully suggest that the title is a little misleading. 

I'm sure that this man was a nice chap but he's got some basic football facts wrong. Chris would have been all over such a basic error by any one of his legion of journalistic and academic bete-noir's. 

[Casino]

10 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

RRF has  always  seemed like a bit of a dime-store to me. I'd have expected better but I honestly can't recall him ever coming up with anything thought out or original. Ask him a question and he dives for cover. 

Morizio's on a different level. He reminds me of an overtired kid trying to gain attention by screaming and throwing tantrums whilst the grown ups are trying to have a conversation.

Anyway thanks for the links. I have a copy of Gerald Hayes book and by far the most interesting bit concerns the Mosaic reverse takeover. There was one guy at the AGM last year complaining to KA that it was  ED's fault that he'd lost £900K.

it was nonsense. He'd spent £10K on shares in 1993 and these shares rocketed to about £850K on the Mosaic merger. It was only temporary, of course. The shares had a consistently downward trajectory and weren't worth a lot when Eddie took over in 2003. If he'd had a bit more savvy he'd  have cashed in when Gerald did and got back his £10K and a tidy profit whilst the going was good. The directors couldn't. They weren't allowed to sell their shares for two years and just had to watch as they plummeted.

Didn't they float at 37, then peak maybe in the 70s?

[Casino]

Anyway, youd have got more for my used bog roll than the shares were worth when eddie hoovered up

[Sluffy]

1 minute ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

I read two pages as I pointed out previously. If less than 20 percent of the book relates to BWFC, may I respectfully suggest that the title is a little misleading. 

I'm sure that this man was a nice chap but he's got some basic football facts wrong. Chris would have been all over such a basic error by any one of his legion of journalistic and academic bete-noir's. 

You are free to suggest what ever you like but the author clearly states in the introduction that the book is about his life and not Bolton Wanderers.  He even states that his not intent for the book to be seen as an history of Bolton Wanderers!

It seems to me that you've simply assumed what the book was about from just the title and the THREE pages you've read, without even the merest check to see that your assumption was right in the first place - even though I'd provided the link for you or anyone else to do so!

I would view that as getting the basic facts wrong here!

Seeing that there was never an attempt on his part to be 100% accurate about BWFC football trivia and excusing a near 80 year old bloke being slightly out with his memory and getting his Tottenham confused with his Arsenal (and forgetting a very forgettable 0-0 interim match) then I doubt Chris or anyone else would have the slightest issue for the old gentleman's recollection to be slightly out.

I however would expect a professional football journalist paid to write about these things to be spot on - wouldn't you?

For whatever reason you've decided to turn the whole issue away from the Mosaic reverse investment explanation, which it was, to some juvenile attempt to presumably point score against me over a misremembered football team opponent, by a near octogenarian, which was played twenty-two years ago!

Whatever floats your boat though I guess.

Have a nice day.

[RoadRunnerFan]

28 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You are free to suggest what ever you like but the author clearly states in the introduction that the book is about his life and not Bolton Wanderers.  He even states that his not intent for the book to be seen as an history of Bolton Wanderers!

I've not read the intro, I have read two pages. 

It seems to me that you've simply assumed what the book was about from just the title and the THREE pages you've read, without even the merest check to see that your assumption was right in the first place - even though I'd provided the link for you or anyone else to do so!

I have read two pages as previously pointed out. The first one you sent in the link and the page with the errors on it. The page in between wasnt availabile when I read it.

 I would view that as getting the basic facts wrong here!

Seeing that there was never an attempt on his part to be 100% accurate about BWFC football trivia and excusing a near 80 year old bloke being slightly out with his memory and getting his Tottenham confused with his Arsenal (and forgetting a very forgettable 0-0 interim match) then I doubt Chris or anyone else would have the slightest issue for the old gentleman's recollection to be slightly out.

It's not just getting any old match wrong though, it's the first goal at the ground. Looks like the editing process has failed. Also I'd hardly call that match against Man U forgettable, first home meeting  after Black Sunday, Blake Pallister incident etc.

I however would expect a professional football journalist paid to write about these things to be spot on - wouldn't you?

I certainly would, I wouldn't expect him to be a finance expert though and I would also expect a little rabble rousing for clicks given the nature of local newspapers today.

For whatever reason you've decided to turn the whole issue away from the Mosaic reverse investment explanation, which it was, to some juvenile attempt to presumably point score against me over a misremembered football team opponent, by a near octogenarian, which was played twenty-two years ago!

Like I said earlier sorry I offended you on the late authors behalf.  And let's be clear this applies to Custard more than yourself but if you set yourself up as a paragon of truth in a world of agendas then don't be surprised when you are called out.

Whatever floats your boat though I guess.

Futsal floats my boat, think I  might give it a bash. I'll ask the chap you made the snide remark to the other day what the crack is.

Have a nice day.

Likewise sir. 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by RoadRunnerFan

[kobeer]

38 minutes ago, Casino said:

Didn't they float at 37, then peak maybe in the 70s?

Technically they didn't float. Mosaic was a business founded, I think, in the 1930s. They'd done various things,  lastly being a supplier of optics to the pub and hotel industry. They sold their last business and were a cash shell, a company with no assets but cash ( about £10m). As Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company were a bigger entity, in theory they could have taken over Mosaic but as Mosaic already had a stock exchange listing a reverse takeover was completed. Existing BWFC shareholders received shares in Mosaic in exchange for their BWFC shares and simultaneously Mosaic was renamed Burnden Leisure. The next AGM referred to it being the 65th (or something around there) AGM of the company, I.e  continuation of Mosaic. Burnden Leisure own 100% of BWFC. 

You are quite right that on the first day of trading as Burnden Leisure they started at 37p and peaked around 70p. BWFC of course didn't receive any money from people buying shares in Burnden Leisure, buying shares in the market just means you are buying them from a shareholder who was selling.

 

[Sluffy]

2 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

1 -I've not read the intro, I have read three pages. 

2 -I have read two pages as previously pointed out. The first one you sent in the link and the page with the errors on it. The page in between wasnt availabile when I read it.

3 -It's not just getting any old match wrong though, it's the first goal at the ground. Looks like the editing process has failed. Also I'd hardly call that match against Man U forgettable, first home meeting  after Black Sunday, Blake Pallister incident etc.

4 -I certainly would, I wouldn't expect him to be a finance expert and I would also expect a little rabble rousing for clicks given the nature of local newspapers today.

5 -Like I said earlier sorry I offended you on the late authors behalf.  And let's be clear this applies to Custard more than yourself but if you set yourself up as a paragon of truth in a world of agendas then don't be surprised when you are called out.

6 - Futsal floats my boat, think I  might give it a bash. I'll ask the chap you made the snide remark to the other day what the crack is.

1 - The intro is on the link provided, you simply scroll back to it.  You could simply have Googled it failing that.

2 - There are three pages in respect of where the link opened namely pages 166 and 167 which talks about Mosaic and page 168 about the first goal at the Reebok.  I have no idea why the link should show differently to you than it is showing for me?

3 - I suspect the book wasn't checked for footballing facts with it simply being about an old man's recollections of his life and his wish for it to be a personal rather than commercial project.  You might consider the interim match to be unforgettable but I certainly don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the games we've played throughout the last twenty odd years even if you may have.

4 - I would not expect the football journalist to be giving his financial thoughts on social media then and if he was as readable as people believe I certainly wouldn't think any click baiting would be required by him to promote his articles or the paper - would you?

5 - I was brought up to believe if you told the truth you had nothing to be worried about.  If you are anyone else is pathetic enough to carry an internet agenda/grudge then that's your problem not mine.  I posted to help and inform about the Mosaic takeover, you on the other hand posted to point score and inadvertently demean the memory of a deceased 82 year old fellow Wanderer supporter.  One of us was acting as a grown up and the other as a petulant child.

6 - A snide remark wishing someone a happy day spent watching/playing something he clearly likes and has even started a thread about?  I'm sure he'd be more than delighted if you did give it a bash - hope you don't disappoint him!

[Casino]

26 minutes ago, kobeer said:

Technically they didn't float. Mosaic was a business founded, I think, in the 1930s. They'd done various things,  lastly being a supplier of optics to the pub and hotel industry. They sold their last business and were a cash shell, a company with no assets but cash ( about £10m). As Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Company were a bigger entity, in theory they could have taken over Mosaic but as Mosaic already had a stock exchange listing a reverse takeover was completed. Existing BWFC shareholders received shares in Mosaic in exchange for their BWFC shares and simultaneously Mosaic was renamed Burnden Leisure. The next AGM referred to it being the 65th (or something around there) AGM of the company, I.e  continuation of Mosaic. Burnden Leisure own 100% of BWFC. 

You are quite right that on the first day of trading as Burnden Leisure they started at 37p and peaked around 70p. BWFC of course didn't receive any money from people buying shares in Burnden Leisure, buying shares in the market just means you are buying them from a shareholder who was selling.

 

Ah, so when you look at previous directors of bwfc or burnden leisure, whoever and it goes back years, they were mosaic types

That makes sense as some odd names in the list

[RoadRunnerFan]

18 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

1 - The intro is on the link provided, you simply scroll back to it.  You could simply have Googled it failing that. Couldn't be arsed, the Mosaic stuff was interesting - thanks. The rest of it just wasn't my brew to be honest, I've got an Ian Rankin upstairs that I haven't started yet so might give that a whirl instead.

2 - There are three pages in respect of where the link opened namely pages 166 and 167 which talks about Mosaic and page 168 about the first goal at the Reebok.  I have no idea why the link should show differently to you than it is showing for me? Dont know, might have just been the time taken to load but 167 was blanked out when I scrolled onto it.

3 - I suspect the book wasn't checked for footballing facts with it simply being about an old man's recollections of his life and his wish for it to be a personal rather than commercial project.  You might consider the interim match to be unforgettable but I certainly don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the games we've played throughout the last twenty odd years even if you may have. 

I don't claim to have such a knowledge, I think the circumstances of the first goal at the new ground tend to stick in the mind though, much like the memorable last game at Burnden against Crystal Palace.

4 - I would not expect the football journalist to be giving his financial thoughts on social media then and if he was as readable as people believe I certainly wouldn't think any click baiting would be required by him to promote his articles or the paper - would you? I'm pretty ambivalent towards him, though I do think he's had a bad time of it with all the high court and finance stuff let's be frank it's not what he signed up for.

5 - I was brought up to believe if you told the truth you had nothing to be worried about.  If you are anyone else is pathetic enough to carry an internet agenda/grudge then that's your problem not mine.  I posted to help and inform about the Mosaic takeover, you on the other hand posted to point score and inadvertently demean the memory of a deceased 82 year old fellow Wanderer supporter.  One of us was acting as a grown up and the other as a petulant child.

I don't do agendas or grudges, nor do I start personal abuse for that matter, I'm happy to give some back if some comes my way though. I don't consider pointing out a factual error in a book to be demeaning the authors' memory either, you are being a bit dramatic there, if the bloke was still with us he may even welcome it.

6 - A snide remark wishing someone a happy day spent watching/playing something he clearly likes and has even started a thread about?  I'm sure he'd be more than delighted if you did give it a bash - hope you don't disappoint him! In fairness he'd probably be more disappointed if I did turn up given the state of me now. 

 

Can we call it a day on this one now? 

All the best for your your treatment. 

[Sluffy]

5 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Can we call it a day on this one now? 

All the best for your your treatment. 

Ok.

Thanks.

Last game at Burnden was against Charlton...

[RoadRunnerFan]

5 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Ok.

Thanks.

Last game at Burnden was against Charlton...

😉

[Chris Custodiet]

3 hours ago, Casino said:

Didn't they float at 37, then peak maybe in the 70s?7

According to Gerald Hayes the new shares were first listed at 87P. I coudn't argue with that  but I only remember them moving in one direction - downwards. GH sold at 55P. Remember he and the other shareholders had got 1,135 shares in Burnden Leisure for every share in BWFC.

I still have some old records but, without digging them out, after the shares had plummeted, I seem to recall ED securing an option  to buy new shares at either 3P or 6P. The club needed the money but some angry words were exchanged at the meeting when the proposals were voted through. I noted at least one of those previously voicing objections was present at the AGM last year but said nothing on this most recent occasion.

KA's response to the silly £900k complainant was to remind him and the audience just how much ED had spent on BWFC.

[Casino]

I thought they were sub a penny when ED stepped in

Absolutely worthless

And im not having 87p, either

If they were, he shouldve sold