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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Is Our Transport Structure At Breaking Point ?


leigh white

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3 minutes ago, MickyD said:

Once you give a private company running the railways in a region the customers are looking for them to spend money on new rolling stock and enough staff members to run the network while the franchisees are looking to make as much profit as possible which means the customer's wishes go unheeded.
Northern seem to be frugal than others, actually buying up the rest of the country's trains as they are replaced by new. 

Exactly. 

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Doesn't matter who runs the trains, so long as they make a decent go of it.

Northern had some issues last year or so, outside their control (track works etc). Beyond that they don't seem to be improving.

Whichever way it's run, sufficient finance and investment for long term is required.

Ever growing population and demand makes it difficult to keep up.

Taking it all back in house so to speak may well be beneficial, but it's going to fully funded through taxation in that scenario.

Would that really make it any better? I genuinely haven't got a clue.

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32 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Doesn't matter who runs the trains, so long as they make a decent go of it.

Northern had some issues last year or so, outside their control (track works etc). Beyond that they don't seem to be improving.

Whichever way it's run, sufficient finance and investment for long term is required.

Ever growing population and demand makes it difficult to keep up.

Taking it all back in house so to speak may well be beneficial, but it's going to fully funded through taxation in that scenario.

Would that really make it any better? I genuinely haven't got a clue.

If public transport was reliable and with big enough trains to cope at the right times and with plenty of free or inexpensive parking local to the stations then people will use the trains to commute. It works in London where a decent transport infrastructure means the population spreads further and further away from the city centre.
Look at the number of cranes in Manchester. Plenty of new office spaces going up. The workforce need to get there.

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2 minutes ago, MickyD said:

If public transport was reliable and with big enough trains to cope at the right times and with plenty of free or inexpensive parking local to the stations then people will use the trains to commute. It works in London where a decent transport infrastructure means the population spreads further and further away from the city centre.
Look at the number of cranes in Manchester. Plenty of new office spaces going up. The workforce need to get there.

Yes, I get that.

Point is, it doesn't matter what system you use to run them, private or public, sufficient funds and quality personnel are essential.

We've got the red rosette brigade bemoaning the current system, and that's fair enough, I've suggested the possibility of bringing rail back into public ownership before. It still has to be funded and run properly though.

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My dad's always moaning about Northern rail, yet he never seems to notice the ticket prices are unbelievably cheap compared to areas that have new trains. If you want large new trains you're going to have to pay for them. My season ticket for a 25 minute commute is 4 times the cost of a Bolton to Manchester season ticket, and the service is shit here too.

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1 hour ago, maaarsh said:

My dad's always moaning about Northern rail, yet he never seems to notice the ticket prices are unbelievably cheap compared to areas that have new trains. If you want large new trains you're going to have to pay for them. My season ticket for a 25 minute commute is 4 times the cost of a Bolton to Manchester season ticket, and the service is shit here too.

Probably go further than 12 miles in that 25 minutes though. 

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1100 for my missus season ticket from our house to Edinburgh. It’s a 12 minute journey by train. Often with packed trains where she can’t get a seat. 
 

Significantly less than the time from Bolton to manc and a shorter journey distance wise but slightly more expensive. 
 

thus those moaning it’s just northern trains and/or the Tories fault need to give their heads a wee wobble 

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34 minutes ago, stevieb said:

Probably go further than 12 miles in that 25 minutes though. 

Yep fair cop, on a per mile basis I only pay 2.5x what Northern Rail charge.

You can moan the service is shit, but moaning about the price is just ridiculous.

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Never had much of a problem with them besides the usual gripes. It seemed around 2015/2016 time the service got decidedly shitter- constantly running late and canceling at a whim. I'd tolerate crammed Thomas the wank engines so long as they actually turned up or were on time. Lost track of the times I was late because the fuckers didn't appear. 

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14 hours ago, MickyD said:

Once you give a private company running the railways in a region the customers are looking for them to spend money on new rolling stock and enough staff members to run the network while the franchisees are looking to make as much profit as possible which means the customer's wishes go unheeded.
Northern seem to be frugal than others, actually buying up the rest of the country's trains as they are replaced by new. 

Norther Rail is a private company but it is government owned.

German government owned.

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On 29/12/2019 at 13:22, Escobarp said:

1100 for my missus season ticket from our house to Edinburgh. It’s a 12 minute journey by train. Often with packed trains where she can’t get a seat. 
 

Significantly less than the time from Bolton to manc and a shorter journey distance wise but slightly more expensive. 
 

thus those moaning it’s just northern trains and/or the Tories fault need to give their heads a wee wobble 

Forget your pro-Tory bollocks; if you're suggesting privatised rail is working in North Manchester, you're even further away in your bubble from the real world here than your personal geography would imply.

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On 29/12/2019 at 20:54, mickbrown said:

Which then uses the profits they make to subsidise their own railways. It’s a farce

Plenty lose money, does that mean that they are subsidising our transport system? 

You could put Jesus of Nazareth in charge, if your drivers are off sick or you don’t have enough of them then the train is getting cancelled. It’s a monumental Fuck up and no party has clean hands, from the government down, I don’t believe it’s just a case of franchising to blame 

I think it needs a fundamental re think, firstly why on earth do Trains need drivers at all? Surely it could be driven from a central control room like a drone? That would eliminate any driver shortages and the money saved could go into reduced cost / more capacity. Then again the unions won’t allow that but fuck them

The other issue with Manchester is capacity, It’s being flogged to death and 1 small fuck up brings the whole thing down. It needs more infrastructure to cope better but god knows where you can put that down. 

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7 hours ago, TM Trotter said:

Forget your pro-Tory bollocks; if you're suggesting privatised rail is working in North Manchester, you're even further away in your bubble from the real world here than your personal geography would imply.

Come on now spunkbucket. Where is there anything pro tory in there. I’m simply saying you can’t pin this on politics 

Im simply pointing out a rail service far far away from northern which is more expensive, just as inefficient  thus actually saying as others have it’s not just northern that’s wrong and again I’m sorry but if you not me but you or others want to use this as political capital then its nonsensical  

I used to commute into Manchester from Bolton from 2002 to 2007 using the train every day  it was awful then delays cancellations and overcrowded sweat boxes  I didn’t then and don’t now see that as a failing of a government   There is a wider issue in the UK of ever increasing demand on all our services and infrastructure and insufficient money going in to fund the necessary investment  the issue is economic not political buddy 

from some of your other responses I’m guessing you had a troubled education yourself and lack thereof so perhaps get a grown up or somebody of a stable mind and IQ above 25 and ask them to read it to you in language you would understand. 
 

bless 😘

Happy new year x

Edited by Escobarp
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3 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

Plenty lose money, does that mean that they are subsidising our transport system? 

I'd say that's precisely the issue. I'll take a punt that the Clitheroe to Rochdale, calling at whatever, wherever, Bromley Cross, Hall i'th Wood, Bolton, two more whaterver and wherevers, Manchester Victoria and loads of who-gives-a-fucks and Rochdale isn't making them as much money as the other routes going through Preston and Piccadilly to Manchester Airport. Hence the grotty Sprinter multiple units which seem to consist of two carriages during peak hours (the expensive period) and four plus off peak. Now I'm no train driver but coupling two lots of two carriages to make a four needs no further staff once coupled than having just the two carriages. That route (Clitheroe to Rochdale, calling at whatever, wherever, Bromley Cross, Hall i'th Wood, Bolton, two more whaterver and wherevers, Manchester Victoria and loads of who-gives-a-fucks and Rochdale) also seems to be the first one cut when "staff shortages" are blamed. Does this mean the drivers with the worst sickness record go on that route?

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2 hours ago, Escobarp said:

Come on now spunkbucket. Where is there anything pro tory in there. I’m simply saying you can’t pin this on politics 

Im simply pointing out a rail service far far away from northern which is more expensive, just as inefficient  thus actually saying as others have it’s not just northern that’s wrong and again I’m sorry but if you not me but you or others want to use this as political capital then its nonsensical  

I used to commute into Manchester from Bolton from 2002 to 2007 using the train every day  it was awful then delays cancellations and overcrowded sweat boxes  I didn’t then and don’t now see that as a failing of a government   There is a wider issue in the UK of ever increasing demand on all our services and infrastructure and insufficient money going in to fund the necessary investment  the issue is economic not political buddy 

from some of your other responses I’m guessing you had a troubled education yourself and lack thereof so perhaps get a grown up or somebody of a stable mind and IQ above 25 and ask them to read it to you in language you would understand. 
 

bless 😘

Happy new year x

Nice attempt at a personal insult, although staying on topic, I must ask: Do you believe the privatised rail system is working? 

Of course there is an increasing demand on services such as transport, but then why is there 'insufficient money going in to fund the necessary investment'? That's inherently a political choice.

All the best 😘🍻

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10 minutes ago, TM Trotter said:

Nice attempt at a personal insult, although staying on topic, I must ask: Do you believe the privatised rail system is working? 

Of course there is an increasing demand on services such as transport, but then why is there 'insufficient money going in to fund the necessary investment'? That's inherently a political choice.

All the best 😘🍻

No I believe the system is flawed and Would be better suited being nationalized but how that would work And where the funding for that would come from is open to debate 

we have a population that expect world leading services but we are not prepared to pay for them so something has to give. 
 

unfortunately our government is like any entity in such as it has to try and balance the books. Enough doesn’t go in to the pot to do everything. 
 

as per my point when I used the commuter line into Manchester in 02-07 it was horrendous then. Was that also by the same virtue as you are implying a government driven issue? 
 

i believe this is a fundamental issue with the UK and not attributable to any government per se as it’s been crap under both major parties. 
 

we either pay more taxes or we pay more at point or purchase. Both are unpalatable to the majority. Thus how do you Solve the issue? It’s not an easy problem to solve 

but if you think my argument is in any way politically motivated as you insinuate then crack on but you evidently aren’t reading what I’m saying 

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On 31/12/2019 at 12:02, Escobarp said:

No I believe the system is flawed and Would be better suited being nationalized but how that would work And where the funding for that would come from is open to debate 

we have a population that expect world leading services but we are not prepared to pay for them so something has to give. 
 

unfortunately our government is like any entity in such as it has to try and balance the books. Enough doesn’t go in to the pot to do everything. 
 

as per my point when I used the commuter line into Manchester in 02-07 it was horrendous then. Was that also by the same virtue as you are implying a government driven issue? 
 

i believe this is a fundamental issue with the UK and not attributable to any government per se as it’s been crap under both major parties. 
 

we either pay more taxes or we pay more at point or purchase. Both are unpalatable to the majority. Thus how do you Solve the issue? It’s not an easy problem to solve 

but if you think my argument is in any way politically motivated as you insinuate then crack on but you evidently aren’t reading what I’m saying 

The government is subsidizing the rail companies as it is. 5Bn a year I think. So the extra cost would not be all that much for state running with the benefits of profits not leaking out to stakeholders - often foreign governments. 

Anyhow - sounds like Northern Rail are about to have their franchise ripped away - only a decade too late - but good non the less. 

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