bwfcfan5 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, dave2980 said: Does this not answer the question? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51943612 Well it’s probably closer to the truth. Not sure why the government can’t just say ‘we didn’t mobilise lab space quickly enough’. But hey ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: What is the answer? They’ve avoided answering it. The first time they’ve given an answer is about Chemicals shortages that seems to be untrue. It was a straight question today why can Germany test 70,000 a day and we can’t do 10,000. So if they have given an answer to that...please explain it. so the uk govt are asked a question about what germany are doing ? And you are having a go at them for not having an answer ? Maybe they should have asked - "Why are you able to test 10,000 a day, when France is only able to do 4,000?" Or maybe, just maybe, its to do with resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Just now, ZiggyStardust said: so the uk govt are asked a question about what germany are doing ? And you are having a go at them for not having an answer ? Maybe they should have asked - "Why are you able to test 10,000 a day, when France is only able to do 4,000?" Or maybe, just maybe, its to do with resources. The article above seems to answer it. We failed to mobilise our available lab testing space in the same way Germany and others have done. Simple as that. They could have explained it instead of the usual obfuscation. But whatever. Hopefully it scales up very quickly now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, Morizio said: Not heard of agenda for change? No Whats that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: No Whats that? It's the pay structure for the vast bulk of NHS staff it does not include Doctors. It is publically available on the NHS employers website. Whilst it is factually true to say that the NHS budget has increased on an annual basis, these increases have not kept pace with increasing activity driven principally by an ageing population living longer with multiple comorbidities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I’m making the bands up But in your opinion, as a Nurse, would you say that nurses generally earned the same year on year (frozen) or most earned more year on year because of the banding system? (In the age of austerity) I’m no Conservative, I wasn’t a massive fan of austerity either but I don’t think it’s helpful saying Nurses pay was frozen, it’s generally the same ones who claim Nurses are using food banks I think nurses are generally underpaid/valued for the amount of work/stress/conditions they have to work under. Having said that - we all got a fairly generous lift a couple of years back (even if it didn't quite come out as generously as it was sold). And it only really made a big difference if you were relatively newly qualified. The banding system isn't a given anymore - you have to keep up with training etc to qualify for it - and there aren't as many pay points to progress through per band. So I suppose whether it was frozen depends on which way you look at it. The bandings and pay points didn't increase for about 10 years so I believe. But there were bandings you could move through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Here you go - nurses start on £24,000. The maximum they can ever move up to is £30,600. So they can be a nurse with 25 years experience and reach that ceiling cap. Only way to increase it is more hours/nights or promotion. And it doesn't matter how good you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudy Posted March 31, 2020 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, kent_white said: I think nurses are generally underpaid/valued for the amount of work/stress/conditions they have to work under. Having said that - we all got a fairly generous lift a couple of years back (even if it didn't quite come out as generously as it was sold). And it only really made a big difference if you were relatively newly qualified. The banding system isn't a given anymore - you have to keep up with training etc to qualify for it - and there aren't as many pay points to progress through per band. So I suppose whether it was frozen depends on which way you look at it. The bandings and pay points didn't increase for about 10 years so I believe. But there were bandings you could move through. I don’t know if it was the case when you were studying Kent but I’ve had it and known doctors and nurses who have been approached before they have qualified to go and work for private firms. The money is so much higher than what the NHS offers and probably one of the reasons why they are struggling for new intakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Rudy’s Message said: I don’t know if it was the case when you were studying Kent but I’ve had it and known doctors and nurses who have been approached before they have qualified to go and work for private firms. The money is so much higher than what the NHS offers and probably one of the reasons why they are struggling for new intakes. To be fair - I don't know any nurses that qualified with me that went to private firms. Not saying it doesn't happen though. I think they're struggling because the starting salary isn't amazing for the pressure/accountability, we lose loads in the first year or two. Also older nurses have fired it off because they're sick of being asked to do more with less. Think we've covered this one on here before and it was roundly concluded that I was a moaning cunt and should just get on with it! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kent_white said: Here you go - nurses start on £24,000. The maximum they can ever move up to is £30,600. So they can be a nurse with 25 years experience and reach that ceiling cap. Only way to increase it is more hours/nights or promotion. And it doesn't matter how good you are. This is true for the vast majority though there are opportunities in nursing and general management, advanced practice etc. 6 minutes ago, Rudy’s Message said: I don’t know if it was the case when you were studying Kent but I’ve had it and known doctors and nurses who have been approached before they have qualified to go and work for private firms. The money is so much higher than what the NHS offers and probably one of the reasons why they are struggling for new intakes. Doctors dont have to leave to do private they just do it on the side! Edited March 31, 2020 by RoadRunnerFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, RoadRunnerFan said: It's the pay structure for the vast bulk of NHS staff it does not include Doctors. It is publically available on the NHS employers website. Whilst it is factually true to say that the NHS budget has increased on an annual basis, these increases have not kept pace with increasing activity driven principally by an ageing population living longer with multiple comorbidities. 1 minute ago, kent_white said: I think nurses are generally underpaid/valued for the amount of work/stress/conditions they have to work under. Having said that - we all got a fairly generous lift a couple of years back (even if it didn't quite come out as generously as it was sold). And it only really made a big difference if you were relatively newly qualified. The banding system isn't a given anymore - you have to keep up with training etc to qualify for it - and there aren't as many pay points to progress through per band. So I suppose whether it was frozen depends on which way you look at it. The bandings and pay points didn't increase for about 10 years so I believe. But there were bandings you could move through. Just had a look, looks similar to what my Mrs gets in her public Sector work I still think that saying Nurses pay was frozen is very misleading given the vast majority would have seen increased pay year on year (ahead of low inflation). Most people working in the private sector would have only been getting inflationary rises of around 1% during the same period anyway (which is what public sector pay rises were capped at even without the banding) Should Nurses be paid more, I think your probably right, you made a point the other week around the amount of red tape you have to go through to stop you getting sued. Perhaps the easy win would be to ban anyone from suing the NHS, put the extra money into pay and the extra time into services. If any member of the public inst prepared to waive their right to sue the NHS then they should find themselves treatment elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said: This is true for the vast majority though there are opportunities in nursing and general management, advanced practice etc There are opportunities - for people who are that way inclined. A lot more pressure and accountability with it though. And a lot of people just want to remain as a staff nurse - and there's a huge value in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 31, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2020 Just now, kent_white said: There are opportunities - for people who are that way inclined. A lot more pressure and accountability with it though. And a lot of people just want to remain as a staff nurse - and there's a huge value in that. What’s it like at the hospital Kent? Still a wall of silence on the news, which I do find strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Birch you would be surprised just how many nurses are at the top of band 5 and have been for some time. Also much of the headline pay rises have been swallowed up by increased pension contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I still think that saying Nurses pay was frozen is very misleading given the vast majority would have seen increased pay year on year (ahead of low inflation). Most people working in the private sector would have only been getting inflationary rises of around 1% during the same period anyway (which is what public sector pay rises were capped at even without the banding) True - I think we need to get away from comparing nurses with people in the private sector though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, kent_white said: There are opportunities - for people who are that way inclined. A lot more pressure and accountability with it though. And a lot of people just want to remain as a staff nurse - and there's a huge value in that. There certainly is. I've tried to PM you over the last couple of weeks, if you are in management and need any advice or support on NHS finance just give me a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Spider said: What’s it like at the hospital Kent? Still a wall of silence on the news, which I do find strange. From what I've heard - most wards will be expected to take COVID patients soon. Think we've had 48 confirmed cases (which is bollocks) 7 deaths. Hospital is still quieter than usual because all non essential services have been stepped down. Think we're expecting the peak mid April when things are expected to be very tough indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoadRunnerFan said: There certainly is. I've tried to PM you over the last couple of weeks, if you are in management and need any advice or support on NHS finance just give me a shout. Sorry mate - I log in on my phone so I sometimes don't realise till ages later that people have been trying to inbox me. I'll clear it now! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, kent_white said: True - I think we need to get away from comparing nurses with people in the private sector though. If only for context, the economy was in a bit of a rough place then and big pay rises where hard to come by for anyone I think we are all equal at the end of the day, Public and Private Sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 London should’ve been locked down properly weeks ago. This is from yesterday. unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: If only for context, the economy was in a bit of a rough place then and big pay rises where hard to come by for anyone I think we are all equal at the end of the day, Public and Private Sector 👍🏼 - we all make the world go around at the end of the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, gonzo said: London should’ve been locked down properly weeks ago. This is from yesterday. unbelievable Just stop non essential workers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted March 31, 2020 Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, kent_white said: 👍🏼 - we all make the world go around at the end of the day! No, that's because of a lack of gravity or forces to stop it spinning JSL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said: No, that's because of a lack of gravity or forces to stop it spinning JSL 🙂 - conservation of angular momentum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudy Posted March 31, 2020 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said: No, that's because of a lack of gravity or forces to stop it spinning JSL Err how does it spin if it’s flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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