Coronavirus

[peelyfeet]

5 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I think you missed China, as the original culprits.

This should not be forgotten.

yeah, without a doubt, and we may never know the truth

[Mounts Kipper]

Good to hear Starmers comments less confrontational less petty party Politics and also already said he will work with the government during this crisis. A welcome step change and possible route back for the Labour Party. 

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

In that we need to assess what happened when this is over, I’m assuming the government are doing the best they can right now, but inevitably we will find out some things could of been done better, it has to be factored in that no one knows the scale of what’s coming and that presents logistical problems.  

Our government have already given unprecedented levels of financial assistance to business and workers, built new hospitals up and down the country, mobilised the armed forces, delivered millions and millions of PPE, are trying to get more ventilators are asking U.K. businesses to help develop new designs and deliver them quickly and all this and much more in less than 1 month. 

I’m in no doubt there will be an inquest when this is over and that inquest will highlights failings ( no government is perfect) but also massive successes,  it’s findings can only help us if this ever happens again. 

ok, so let's wait and see for the inquest - fair enough - it was worded more like "lets see if we get worse then italy, then we can decide what to do next" which is mental

this thing is moving at 100 mph, for me, there's no time to wait on anything - keep moving, keep assessing what we've done daily, decide now if it feels right or wrong, and adapt where necessary - and that includes great scrutiny on every government's actions world wide, not just ours, and not just for the sake of perceived points scoring - the inquests should start now, imo

[kent_white]

4 minutes ago, Morizio said:

Access to medical records act 1988

and that documenting that goes on is in order to give accountability, transparency and to ensure the process has been lawful. Thereby complying with the human right act article 2. 
 

Which, if Fairfield have gone off on a tangent and now doing their own thing where they are asking over 50s with the disease to sign a form about DNAR, are they acting lawfully and thereby not breaching article 2. 

Then yes - we've got hand written medical notes stored at the hospital going back a long time. I think we have to store them for 25 years. There's a whole department devoted to it.

If what's being reported at Fairfield is true (and that's a big if) - then I'm sure it will have gone through all kinds of governance procedures. It's hard enough to get a sign changed on a toilet door without approval.

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, ZicoKelly said:

ok, so let's wait and see for the inquest - fair enough - it was worded more like "lets see if we get worse then italy, then we can decide what to do next" which is mental

this thing is moving at 100 mph, for me, there's no time to wait on anything - keep moving, keep assessing what we've done daily, decide now if it feels right or wrong, and adapt where necessary - and that includes great scrutiny on every government's actions world wide, not just ours, and not just for the sake of perceived points scoring - the inquests should start now, imo

But is the government not doing exactly that and adapting to a fast moving situation? Keeping us all informed daily and doing their best to get us ALL through this as best we can?

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Good to hear Starmers comments less confrontational less petty party Politics and also already said he will work with the government during this crisis. A welcome step change and possible route back for the Labour Party. 

What he said echoes everything I’ve been saying. We need to work together but that doesn’t mean where things look wrong we shouldn’t call them out. This is about life saving.  And whatever you give the government out of ten if we can get other constructive voices in we can only improve that score.

[Morizio]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Then yes - we've got hand written medical notes stored at the hospital going back a long time. I think we have to store them for 25 years. There's a whole department devoted to it.

If what's being reported at Fairfield is true (and that's a big if) - then I'm sure it will have gone through all kinds of governance procedures. It's hard enough to get a sign changed on a toilet door without approval.

and it’s this IF that I have issue with. I hope that you can see and understand my point of view in this as I have yours and how you have explained how things currently run. 
 

It’s still important that our society has laws and that these laws are followed by the institutions.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Good to hear Starmers comments less confrontational less petty party Politics and also already said he will work with the government during this crisis. A welcome step change and possible route back for the Labour Party. 

Hopefully a good decision, clearly has issues, such as his failed Brexit stance,  but,  I’d imagine, much more acceptable to a wider audience than the others. Hopefully will create a decent opposition.

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

What he said echoes everything I’ve been saying. We need to work together but that doesn’t mean where things look wrong we shouldn’t call them out. This is about life saving.  And whatever you give the government out of ten if we can get other constructive voices in we can only improve that score.

I’m still waiting for a positive post from you about the positive work put in by the Tories. 

[ErnestTurnip]

I'm now less worried about the people often referred to as chavs and more worried about people deciding their interpretation of stats and the like are better than those who are meant to be the experts. That's not necessarily anyone on here.

Summat else I've been wondering and this is purely hypothetical. Tomorrow Johnson stands up and says everything we've said about this virus still stands, all our advice is still 100% valid, furloughs are still in place BUT we are no longer able to keep pubs, restaurants, parks, sporting events closed or cancelled. If Wanderers put a game on the day after are you staying in lockdown lite or going for a pint and to the match?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ErnestTurnip said:

I'm now less worried about the people often referred to as chavs and more worried about people deciding their interpretation of stats and the like are better than those who are meant to be the experts. That's not necessarily anyone on here.

Summat else I've been wondering and this is purely hypothetical. Tomorrow Johnson stands up and says everything we've said about this virus still stands, all our advice is still 100% valid, furloughs are still in place BUT we are no longer able to keep pubs, restaurants, parks, sporting events closed or cancelled. If Wanderers put a game on the day after are you staying in lockdown lite or going for a pint and to the match?

Hypothetically?

I think I’d go the match, not so sure about pubs 

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, ErnestTurnip said:

I'm now less worried about the people often referred to as chavs and more worried about people deciding their interpretation of stats and the like are better than those who are meant to be the experts. That's not necessarily anyone on here.

Summat else I've been wondering and this is purely hypothetical. Tomorrow Johnson stands up and says everything we've said about this virus still stands, all our advice is still 100% valid, furloughs are still in place BUT we are no longer able to keep pubs, restaurants, parks, sporting events closed or cancelled. If Wanderers put a game on the day after are you staying in lockdown lite or going for a pint and to the match?

Stay at home for me as it stands. 

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’m still waiting for a positive post from you about the positive work put in by the Tories. 

You’ve not looked. I’ve praised Hancock and Sunak. Their economic response has been superb. I’ve said so. Their response to criticism over testing on Thursday was also good as was eventually their semi lockdown. But the things that really matter now is proper PPE access to ventilators and we need to make sure we have the same level of PPE they have in Italy, for example.

[Zico]

14 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

But is the government not doing exactly that and adapting to a fast moving situation? Keeping us all informed daily and doing their best to get us ALL through this as best we can?

I think so, generally yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't question or be critical of their actions if we don't think it's the best course of action (but not just for the sake it, or because you didn't vote for) 

it doesn't really matter though whether you sit back and watch, or question it on here, so long as you are doing you're best in the real world to slow things down - and I don't think some leaders have done that

[Guest Nordkurve]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Many folk pointing stuff out are political point scoring that don’t sit well with me, the government know the task in hand and any shortfall won’t be for the want of trying. 

Do you actually work for the Government ? If not, you have the same idea of what is going on behind the scenes as the rest of us. Government say one thing, NHS Managers and Chemical Companies and Ventilator Manufacturers say another. Just saying.

[Escobarp]

13 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

I think so, generally yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't question or be critical of their actions if we don't think it's the best course of action (but not just for the sake it, or because you didn't vote for) 

it doesn't really matter though whether you sit back and watch, or question it on here, so long as you are doing you're best in the real world to slow things down - and I don't think some leaders have done that

100% agree with all that

nobody should be beyond challenge or criticism but it needs to be constructive and topical and without the continuous point scoring that some people seem to thrive on. 

[Guest Nordkurve]

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

I can't say pal. It would be a Consultant making that decision. But it would depend on a lot of other factors as well. How well you were overall being the most important - and what your chances of having a good outcome were. I wouldn't say asthma would be an automatic DNACPR by a long shot. 

Also interestingly, if a nurse finds a patient and the patient doesn't have a DNACPR - we'd duty bound to start CPR. Even if that patient had clearly been dead for a long period of time.

Nurses have been struck off for not attempting CPR on patients who have been dead for over 8 hours.

I think they are going about this wrong. Better to have a "Fill me with a shit load of drugs so I at least don't suffer, and pop my clogs whilst away with the Fairies" declaration to be honest. I think a lot of people who have read what the latter stages of this Virus cause with regards to pain would be up for that.

[Tombwfc]

26 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

But is the government not doing exactly that and adapting to a fast moving situation? Keeping us all informed daily and doing their best to get us ALL through this as best we can?

 

Sure. But that doesn't mean everyone should just shut up and let them crack on.

It's not long ago Boris was shaking hands with coronavirus patients, his dad was telling everyone to go to the pub, we'd quickly moved beyond testing and the government advice was for hundreds of thousands to go and mingle at sporting events.

They've reacted, but it's an astonishing amount of faith if you believe that media & public pressure hasn't helped push them along the way when it comes to things like the lockdown, economic packages (for the self-employed particularly) and on testing.

[Escobarp]

6 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Sure. But that doesn't mean everyone should just shut up and let them crack on.

It's not long ago Boris was shaking hands with coronavirus patients, his dad was telling everyone to go to the pub, we'd quickly moved beyond testing and the government advice was for hundreds of thousands to go and mingle at sporting events.

They've reacted, but it's an astonishing amount of faith if you believe that media & public pressure hasn't helped push them along the way when it comes to things like the lockdown, economic packages (for the self-employed particularly) and on testing.

Never said anyone should shut up. As I’ve said nobody is immune to criticism and that applies to everything in life. But there is a time and a place and a manner for giving that criticism so as to promote positive change 

i personally welcome criticism and constructive feedback in all facets of life  it’s how we evolve and develop 

a “told you so” mentality or constantly trying to force home your own politically biased views to an audience wishing to discuss a global pandemic just doesn’t cut it for me.

 

oh and our media are an utter disgrace. They are the forefront of the political point scoring 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Escobarp

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

 

 

oh and our media are an utter disgrace. They are the forefront of the political point scoring 

Indeed

You wouldn’t think they were on the same side, which they should be.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 hours ago, Spider said:

 

Man, you’re confused.

Eh?

His let's wait and see wasn't a suggestion we do nothing!

It's clear we have been making efforts to prepare- whether that's good enough, we will have to see. 

Constant knocking of those who are trying, especially by folk who aren't involved is a county thing to do.

When it's all over, there'll be plenty of time to look at it.

[mickbrown]

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Eh?

His let's wait and see wasn't a suggestion we do nothing!

It's clear we have been making efforts to prepare- whether that's good enough, we will have to see. 

Constant knocking of those who are trying, especially by folk who aren't involved is a county thing to do.

When it's all over, there'll be plenty of time to look at it.

But equally just giving them a free ride and letting them muddle through it aint helping anybody either.

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Indeed

You wouldn’t think they were on the same side, which they should be.

That’s ridiculous. They are there to report and have editorial opinion. When they did that for the election you didn’t have an issue. When the spectator were releasing articles saying the measures were over the top you didn’t call them out, you said they were interesting pieces for debate, yet they were heavily critical of government policy.

What you really mean is the media is a disgrace unless it echoes my world view. 

The fact elements of the media who were integral in getting Boris elected have now criticised him for some things is surely a great thing - it shows that in a crisis the media will ask pertinent questions and not just tow the same old lines. Otherwise we are basically Chernobyl. 

[jmjhb]

3735 new cases, 708 deaths

Number of new cases down but they tested over 1000 fewer cases than yesterday, and it's pointless looking at it from a day-to-day basis

Edited April 4, 2020 by jmjhb

[kent_white]

38 minutes ago, Nordkurve said:

I think they are going about this wrong. Better to have a "Fill me with a shit load of drugs so I at least don't suffer, and pop my clogs whilst away with the Fairies" declaration to be honest. I think a lot of people who have read what the latter stages of this Virus cause with regards to pain would be up for that.

That's exactly what we'll be doing when we know there's nothing left that can be done.