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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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1 hour ago, Spider said:

Had a letter through the door from the ONS

Offering everyone in our house £400 each to take part in a survey.

Covid swab each -  once a week for 4 weeks, followed by one a month for 11 months.

Anyone else had it?

In laws started a week or two back. Hope father in law especially doesn't get it, because he might not finish the survey.

52 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Honestly its grim atm. Its a cracking job and I only have to work 40 weeks a year, but atm it's not the job it should be.

 

Typical classroom has to have a marked off teacher zone at the front, which teachers teach from.. issue is that in schools there isn't enough room for this.. so at times I'm less than 2m from students for an hour.. no masks in a closed room..

Hearing about a lot of teachers who have tested positive having spent 6 months shielding:( 

To he honest, in your shoes, I'd put a mask on.

Be interesting to see if any head would try and discipline a teacher doing so.

If everyone in shops now has to wear one, then class rooms shouldn't really be so different. 

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10 hours ago, peelyfeet said:

Jules, sorry If I came across as pompous.

You haven't been very vocal on here about this until now.

A couple of days ago you posted that article from lockdownsceptics. lockdown sceptics is very politically motivated.

I've posted loads of stuff on here and I've tried to keep politics out of it as best I can, as I think it clouds the water. 

If you want to know - I'm against a lot of the stuff the government have done, and pro a lot of the stuff the government have done.

I have a very strong opinion when it comes to science, especailly when it concerns the health, wellbeing and livelehood of everyone I know.

I can't stand people twisting science for political gain, for clicks, to sell books, for notoriety. 

I like raw data, presented without bias, so if anyone posts stuff on here that appears politically motivated and bends the truth for non scientific reasons, I'm going to challenge it.

That doesn't mean I think your'e stupid. It means I don't believe what you've posted to be true. Normally I wouldn't give a shit, but I do with this.

My advice was supposed to highlight that you've posted 2 links from  publications that have articles about false negatives, and they take a  alternate views.

If you, nor I, are as well researched as the authors,  how do we know which one is correct?

In this case, one of them is wrong, the other is correct. This isn't a case of differing opinion, it's whoevers maths is most accurate.

I've come across this situation loads of times, so what I do is try to take my information from sources that are open to challenge, that don't appear to be politically motivated, who disclose conflicts of interest before they tell you anything (because it makes me trust them more), from guys who have a long track record, who show that they are willing to change point of view if the science changes - Toby Young and his mates don't fit any of the criteria, so I discount what they say before even reading it.  

 

 

 

 

You know what I’m sorry, that was harsh. Apologies. I deal with data, a lot and I felt like you were telling us how to suck eggs. 

Let me be clear; I do not deny corona for one second; nor do I believe that certain measures are not sensible.

My overarching view is that there will be more illness, misery and death of the measures are disproportionate to the risk.

I also post thought pieces from SME’s. Doesn’t mean they are gospel nor that I believe they are, but they are worthy of debate. Take the open letter I posted; you and Tom scoffed because of who tweeted it, ignoring the calibre of authors and signatories of the letter; whilst simultaneously going with the govt’s SME’s on the subject, who by experience are probably equals to those. The only difference being the govt’s lot have been chosen to represent them. You seem to back them as having “no skin on the game”; we’ve seen recently in the news that’s not true.

My frustration is linked to Gonzo’s post; any critique of the measures and you are seen as a krank who doesn’t believe in it at all...see TomBWFC’s post for a perfect example.

Not believing rates of extrapolation or the level of threat “relative” to other threats, or the knock on effects of trying to slow it down,  is absolutely not to deny it exists as a threat at all.

Also, places where you can’t criticise govt produced data aren’t the best examples of society!

As for me becoming vocal recently; the latest measures have only just come in, which piqued my interest. 

🤷🏽‍♂️
 

Anyway sorry for being grumpy x

 

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19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

In laws started a week or two back. Hope father in law especially doesn't get it, because he might not finish the survey.

To he honest, in your shoes, I'd put a mask on.

Be interesting to see if any head would try and discipline a teacher doing so.

If everyone in shops now has to wear one, then class rooms shouldn't really be so different. 

Kids can't understand what I'm saying with a mask or face shield. The head wouldnt have a problem with the face shields but they're not that nice to work in. 

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15 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Kids can't understand what I'm saying with a mask or face shield. The head wouldnt have a problem with the face shields but they're not that nice to work in. 

Has it been tried then?

I was unsure when I first started going in shops wearing one. Not one person has struggled to understand what I was saying. Ok your room may well be larger.

I suppose the other option then, is that the kids wear them all the time.

Something has to give if teachers are dropping regularly with the virus. May as well all be back doing on line learning. 

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18 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Kids can't understand what I'm saying with a mask or face shield. The head wouldnt have a problem with the face shields but they're not that nice to work in. 

Brain surgeons always seem to be able to communicate with the nurses during operations.
On a more mundane level, I manage every day with my customers. 
They’re not very nice to work in but these are not very nice times.

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29 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Kids can't understand what I'm saying with a mask or face shield. The head wouldnt have a problem with the face shields but they're not that nice to work in. 

 

9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Has it been tried then?

I was unsure when I first started going in shops wearing one. Not one person has struggled to understand what I was saying. Ok your room may well be larger.

I suppose the other option then, is that the kids wear them all the time.

Something has to give if teachers are dropping regularly with the virus. May as well all be back doing on line learning. 

 

4 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

Brain surgeons always seem to be able to communicate with the nurses during operations.
On a more mundane level, I manage every day with my customers. 
They’re not very nice to work in but these are not very nice times.

Cast your mind back to when we were school kids. 
 

A teacher wearing a mask, for whatever reason, would get told, “Sorry sir, can’t understand what you’re saying.”

That’s irrespective of whether or not we could hear what he’s saying. It’s all part of them being kids and you being a teacher.

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2 hours ago, Spider said:

Had a letter through the door from the ONS

Offering everyone in our house £400 each to take part in a survey.

Covid swab each -  once a week for 4 weeks, followed by one a month for 11 months.

Anyone else had it?

No - but I know some people that have. Paid in vouchers I believe - but free moment nonetheless!

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3 minutes ago, MickyD said:

 

 

Cast your mind back to when we were school kids. 
 

A teacher wearing a mask, for whatever reason, would get told, “Sorry sir, can’t understand what you’re saying.”

That’s irrespective of whether or not we could hear what he’s saying. It’s all part of them being kids and you being a teacher.

Yes, but we live in an era where the kids are right, tea hers wrong.  It does muffle the sound and talking in a mask and projecting your voice creates a nice moist mask. 

The dfe have stated they dont want teachers wearing masks. 

However atm it feels like we are just facilitating childcare as it's certainly not teaching as it should be :(

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Just now, only1swanny said:

Yes, but we live in an era where the kids are right, tea hers wrong.  It does muffle the sound and talking in a mask and projecting your voice creates a nice moist mask. 

The dfe have stated they dont want teachers wearing masks. 

However atm it feels like we are just facilitating childcare as it's certainly not teaching as it should be :(

New mask every different lesson and tell the DfE to fuck off unless it’s them in front of 30 kids.

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27 minutes ago, MickyD said:

New mask every different lesson and tell the DfE to fuck off unless it’s them in front of 30 kids.

But surely the advice to wear masks is to stop you spreading it if you have it.

That was my understanding, they do little to prevent you catching it.

Or have I missed something and this has now changed?

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42 minutes ago, MickyD said:

 

 

Cast your mind back to when we were school kids. 
 

A teacher wearing a mask, for whatever reason, would get told, “Sorry sir, can’t understand what you’re saying.”

That’s irrespective of whether or not we could hear what he’s saying. It’s all part of them being kids and you being a teacher.

I’ve cast my mind back and I can’t remember a crisis like this when I was at school. I’d like to think that we would have all worked together (pupils and teachers) to get through this. 
Whimsical maybe but that’s what’s needed now. It’s their future.

Edited by Boby Brno
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2 hours ago, only1swanny said:

Honestly its grim atm. Its a cracking job and I only have to work 40 weeks a year, but atm it's not the job it should be.

 

Typical classroom has to have a marked off teacher zone at the front, which teachers teach from.. issue is that in schools there isn't enough room for this.. so at times I'm less than 2m from students for an hour.. no masks in a closed room..

Hearing about a lot of teachers who have tested positive having spent 6 months shielding:( 

Some sympathy with you but all the teachers I know / access are fucking about and have been breaking rules all over. All whilst on a full wage

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1 hour ago, MickyD said:

 

 

Cast your mind back to when we were school kids. 
 

A teacher wearing a mask, for whatever reason, would get told, “Sorry sir, can’t understand what you’re saying.”

That’s irrespective of whether or not we could hear what he’s saying. It’s all part of them being kids and you being a teacher.

You might have done. Many wouldn't. 

If a pandemic of this nature required us all to wear a mask and shut the fuck up whilst someone was talking then so be it.

Quite Frankly, under the present circumstances, if a kid acts the twat, he or she should just be fucked off back home. 

Swanny shouldn't be baby sitting covidiots.

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12 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You might have done. Many wouldn't. 

If a pandemic of this nature required us all to wear a mask and shut the fuck up whilst someone was talking then so be it.

Quite Frankly, under the present circumstances, if a kid acts the twat, he or she should just be fucked off back home. 

Swanny shouldn't be baby sitting covidiots.

Remember, I wasn’t at school during a pandemic but I really can’t see that the type of kid who dicked about way back in the mid 70s is much different that the same kind of kid now. Too immature to realise that he only gets one chance of a decent education.

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4 hours ago, Spider said:

Had a letter through the door from the ONS

Offering everyone in our house £400 each to take part in a survey.

Covid swab each -  once a week for 4 weeks, followed by one a month for 11 months.

Anyone else had it?

That's so they'll have your DNA, and can track you for the rest of your life via 5G

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1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You might have done. Many wouldn't. 

If a pandemic of this nature required us all to wear a mask and shut the fuck up whilst someone was talking then so be it.

Quite Frankly, under the present circumstances, if a kid acts the twat, he or she should just be fucked off back home. 

Swanny shouldn't be baby sitting covidiots.

Seriously if I told you of what I've had to put up with last week, you would be shocked. Can't post on a public board. 

Most saw this coming, kids have had 6 months of "do what you like" bringing them back into set routines and wanting to learn was always going to be an issue. 

Just seem another post on face ache about a group of kids on levenshulme park.  Parents have been fined and the great unwashed are having a pop at the police about it. Huge chunk if the day is spent keeping kids safe, then come night they do what they want, hang out in groups and parents dont give a damn. 

Middle if a pandemic living in the epicentre... "course you can go and hang out with your mates tarquin".. police have better things to be doing but they're having to spend resources breaking up large groups. 

All because mums and dads want the easy life rather than confrontation with their kids. Kids shouldn't be out, really simple. 

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2 hours ago, Marc505 said:

 

K...

I wonder what it is that makes Nationalist nutters promote massive conspiracy theories, even though the Political Parties they support are winning elections? Ah, it's a chicken and egg thing innit.

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13 hours ago, jules_darby said:

You know what I’m sorry, that was harsh. Apologies. I deal with data, a lot and I felt like you were telling us how to suck eggs. 

Let me be clear; I do not deny corona for one second; nor do I believe that certain measures are not sensible.

My overarching view is that there will be more illness, misery and death of the measures are disproportionate to the risk.

I also post thought pieces from SME’s. Doesn’t mean they are gospel nor that I believe they are, but they are worthy of debate. Take the open letter I posted; you and Tom scoffed because of who tweeted it, ignoring the calibre of authors and signatories of the letter; whilst simultaneously going with the govt’s SME’s on the subject, who by experience are probably equals to those. The only difference being the govt’s lot have been chosen to represent them. You seem to back them as having “no skin on the game”; we’ve seen recently in the news that’s not true.

My frustration is linked to Gonzo’s post; any critique of the measures and you are seen as a krank who doesn’t believe in it at all...see TomBWFC’s post for a perfect example.

Not believing rates of extrapolation or the level of threat “relative” to other threats, or the knock on effects of trying to slow it down,  is absolutely not to deny it exists as a threat at all.

Also, places where you can’t criticise govt produced data aren’t the best examples of society!

As for me becoming vocal recently; the latest measures have only just come in, which piqued my interest. 

🤷🏽‍♂️
 

Anyway sorry for being grumpy x

 

No worries mate - the grumpiness is caused by the time we are living in - for what its worth I don't believe the government are portraying the growth of the infection spread as accurately as possible, but I think Whitty and Vallanace are trying their best, and are open and honest. 

I doubt that they're trying to purposefully deceive the public. 

I think, they're inclined to think they need to dumb down some of their broadcasts so their overall message gets across to the widest populace. In doing so accuracy is lost. If they'd presented a much longer and more detailed presentation going through all the potential outcomes and influences on the numbers it would be better for people like you and me, who want to know the detail, but the message would lose impact for those who don't care.

My issue is - I believe that there are folk, on both sides of the argument, who aren't honest, who want to used covid as a political battering ram for their preffered ideaology, or personal gain. 

Take Karol Sikora, for example.

He has a massive conflict of interest, and he has a lot of baggage.

He has supported issues in the past that some consider to put profit before patient wellbeing and he's been accused (by several reputable folk) of deception for personal gain.

He might be genuine in his concern for cancer patients, however, he is also the Director of the largest group of private cancer treatment centres in the UK. The centres will be losing big £'s because of the lack of cancer refferals they are getting, due to the NHS prioritising covid.

Before Covid, he was most notorious as a very active advocate of privatising parts of the NHS (unsuprisingly, expert specialist treatment centres!) and rallying against Obamacare in the US for the Republican Party - his method of attack was this:

"I'm an expert - I'm just trying to help patients get better treatment" - when in reality he wants the governments to make specialist treatment privatised and leave the NHS for bog standard treatment - which might be great if you can afford it,  not so god if you're poor and need specialist treatment.  (the university he is linked to is a private one that has had courses he presided over withdrawn, for being pseudoscience, and Imperial college London took legal advice over him falsly claiming he'd been their professor of Oncology https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/may/22/karol-sikora-honorary-professor-imperial-college)   

Therefore, when I read anything he posts regarding needing to end lockdown, I doubt his intergrity.

Instead I think "Is he just saying this because he doesn't want his cancer centres to fail?, is his advice part of his overall want to break up the NHS, so that his private cancer teatment centres can flourish?, after all it looks like he's done stuff like this before."

Is his real concern a personal one? and therefore not in the best interests of the population? 

In essence, I don't think he's an honest guy, nor an expert in epidemiology.

on the other hand there are some good pieces that paint the picture a litle better than Karol, in my opinion, like this

 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-rule-of-four-how-to-make-sense-of-covid-case-numbers 

 

Edited by peelyfeet
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Also just wanted to apologise to Jules and others if I’ve come across patronising or just rude. Like lots of people I’m a bit more on edge than normal. One of the things I love about this grouping is being able to read the diverse opinions which often make me question my own thinking.

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