gonzo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ani said: Out of interest I assume everyone knows someone who has had it. Does anyone know anyone who has been fined for breaking the rules ? This is becoming increasingly polarised but whatever ‘side’ you are on and whatever level of restrictions you support surely the most effective thing will be to enforce the rules. I get the impact on the hospitality sector but we have all seen images and probably have personal stories about places ignoring the rules. Non enforcement is now leading to everyone being punished so a Covid compliant responsible bar gets punished. Have you got any data that suggests the breaking of rules in the hospitality sector has led to rises? The breaking of rules by owners and staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Horwich Posted October 8, 2020 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ani said: Out of interest I assume everyone knows someone who has had it. Does anyone know anyone who has been fined for breaking the rules ? This is becoming increasingly polarised but whatever ‘side’ you are on and whatever level of restrictions you support surely the most effective thing will be to enforce the rules. I get the impact on the hospitality sector but we have all seen images and probably have personal stories about places ignoring the rules. Non enforcement is now leading to everyone being punished so a Covid compliant responsible bar gets punished. I know 2 people who got fined £1000 for not isolating when coming back from spain on holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter RONNIE PHILLIPS Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rudy said: I refer you back to my previous post. PM me pal we’ll talk business, we’ll make a killing so to speak. This time next year Rodders (if COVID/The ChinaRussianUSA trifecta/BWFC playoff heartbreak doesn’t kill us) we’ll be millionaires. Your last name Shipman by any chance? 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, gonzo said: Have you got any data that suggests the breaking of rules in the hospitality sector has led to rises? The breaking of rules by owners and staff? Everywhere you go you can see bars, pubs, restaurants and cafes full of people not following the rules. Yes there are plenty that are doing things by the book. And this certainly won’t be the only factor in the rising numbers. But it certainly can’t be helping. I would love nothing more than for all of these places to stay open but they and the public have got to play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, gonzo said: Have you got any data that suggests the breaking of rules in the hospitality sector has led to rises? The breaking of rules by owners and staff? I did not mention the hospitality specifically about breaking the rules. My step daughter does people’s eyelashes and follows every rule going , knows loads who have just ignored. Her b/f got his hair cut the other day the place he went to, not a mask in sight. One of her clients went to a bar in Leeds 2 weeks ago place was compliant but as it got busier they were allowing groups in to share tables with other groups. On the flip-side been in a couple of pubs where the rules are clear and easy to follow. So have seen examples of rules broken by both clients and owners. I know your missus runs (or ran) a pub so it is close to home for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 Simple this If you want to crack on, and think Covid is "nothing to fear" (Copyright Donald Trump Oct 2020) then you sign a waiver explaining that you are happy not to be treated by the NHS if you are diagnosed with it. This way, the NHS stays protected, you can have your civil liberties back and the balance is struck. That fair @Mounts Kipper ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter superjohnmcginlay Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 In my third week of being at home while the children have to isolate, I’d forgotten how bad it was. Trying it juggle work and to school them. The lad was easy enough he could just sit there and crack on. Daughter needs more help, she needs more than I can help her with. So try to entertain her rather than be a teacher the best I can while working. Trouble I’m having is I don't see any end. Feels very much like it did in March, it’s very frustrating. Yet here we are 7 months on, supposedly more knowledgeable about the virus and we still don’t have any clear plan. The impact on the kids is bothering me apart from school no social interaction, no parties, not much sports, the aspect of not seeing friends or family is particularly becoming a real frustration. Work wise I’m absolutely snowed under, so I’m very, very fortunate in that respect and thankful. I cannot imagine the uncertainty those in hospitality and entertainments are going through. My worries are nothing in comparison. As Ani states imagine being a Covid secure well run establishment and being punished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelyfeet Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 32 minutes ago, Ani said: Out of interest I assume everyone knows someone who has had it. Does anyone know anyone who has been fined for breaking the rules ? This is becoming increasingly polarised but whatever ‘side’ you are on and whatever level of restrictions you support surely the most effective thing will be to enforce the rules. I get the impact on the hospitality sector but we have all seen images and probably have personal stories about places ignoring the rules. Non enforcement is now leading to everyone being punished so a Covid compliant responsible bar gets punished. I've had 2 mates have it, my sons best mate has it now, a dad from football. All had zero or mild symptoms. There's a free house I walk past when walking the dog at night, it has a small beer garden with a fence round it so the folk in it act like nobody can see them. It's rammed, there ain't no distancing going on when I walk past. There's another one half a mile up the road, bit bigger, pub chain, total opposite, everyone doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ani said: I did not mention the hospitality specifically about breaking the rules. My step daughter does people’s eyelashes and follows every rule going , knows loads who have just ignored. Her b/f got his hair cut the other day the place he went to, not a mask in sight. One of her clients went to a bar in Leeds 2 weeks ago place was compliant but as it got busier they were allowing groups in to share tables with other groups. On the flip-side been in a couple of pubs where the rules are clear and easy to follow. So have seen examples of rules broken by both clients and owners. I know your missus runs (or ran) a pub so it is close to home for you. Aye she left few years ago but still works in the trade albeit part time. Its more the comercial side of my business and being in and a round the pubs that are stringently sticking to the rules that concern me. Im watching their livelyhoods go down the drain as their sector is the easiest to target imo. Pulverising a major player of the economy based on what data? Theres businesses going to go up the wall that havent put a foot wrong. Add to that youve got old rishi boy telling event managers and music producers to simpky retrain. Its bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Im with mounts. We are just going to have to deal with it. Take the hit, take the rises. Keep the vunerable safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 400 more jobs went at Manchester Airport yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gonzo said: Im with mounts. We are just going to have to deal with it. Take the hit, take the rises. Keep the vunerable safe. Unless we get a vaccine soon this is the only way, it’ll dawn on folk & the government eventually, further lockdown will critically damage our way of life. Higher category risk Isolate if you wish, government help and support if needed, the rest crack on. Edited October 8, 2020 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Traf said: 400 more jobs went at Manchester Airport yesterday. It's only a year since they were in the midst of a recruitment drive for about 1,00 new jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 11 hours ago, Casino said: Is it? 100% If you think everyone that is young and catches it will be right as rain in a couple of weeks, then you've clearly been isolating yourself from reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: 100% If you think everyone that is young and catches it will be right as rain in a couple of weeks, then you've clearly been isolating yourself from reality. Most are. Same with any other virus. Hits some harder than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelyfeet Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) Whitty and Vallance - 21st Sept Let me just start by reminding you that this disease spreads by droplets, by surface contact and by aerosols. Hence the hands, face, space but also to remind you that the way that we reduce the spread is by limiting our number of contacts, by reducing contact in environments where spread is more likely. Those are crowded environments, indoor environments, poor ventilation. When people have an infection, the vast majority of people get an antibody response, and we know that some of those antibodies are so-called neutralising antibodies. They do indeed protect against the virus. We also know that they fade over time, and there are cases of people becoming re-infected. So this is not an absolute protection, and it will potentially decrease over time. What we see is that something under eight per cent of the population have been infected as we measure the antibodies, so about eight per cent, so 3 million or so people, may have been infected and have antibodies. It means that the vast majority of us are not protected in any way and are susceptible to this disease. There may be other forms of protection that increase that number a little bit. Two other broad points I wanted to make. The first one is that there are, as we’ve said from the beginning, and it really does need to be repeated, four ways in which this virus is going to have a very potential significant effect on the population’s health if we let it grow out of control. The first, the easiest to, to identify, is direct Covid deaths. People who get the virus and die of the virus. The second would be if the NHS emergency services were overwhelmed by a huge spike, and that is what the extraordinary efforts of the population allowed to prevent happening in the first wave we met. The third however is very important, and I think its importance should not be understated, which is if the NHS is having to spend a large proportion of its effort in trying to treat Covid cases because the numbers have gone up very, to a very high levels and trying to put in case, in place, large numbers of systems to try and reduce the risk of transmission in hospitals, it will lead to a reduction in treatment for other areas, in early diagnosis of disease, and in prevention programmes. And so there is an indirect effect on deaths and on illness from this impact on the NHS if we allow the numbers to rise too fast. But on the other side, we also know that some of the things we’ve had to do are going to cause significant problems in the economy, big social impacts, impacts on mental health, and therefore ministers making decisions, and all of society, have to walk this very difficult balance. If we do too little, this virus will go out of control and we will get significant numbers of increased direct and indirect deaths, but if we go too far the other way, then we can cause damage to the economy which can feed through to unemployment, to poverty and to deprivation, all of which have long-term health effects. So we need always to keep these two sides in mind. My final point is that if I increase my risk, a lot of people say, well, can’t people just be allowed to take their own risk? The problem with a pandemic or an epidemic infection like this is if I as an individual increase my risk, I increase the risk to everyone around me and then everyone who’s a contact of theirs, and sooner or later the chain will meet people who are vulnerable or elderly or have a long term problem from Covid. So you cannot in an epidemic just take your own risk. Unfortunately, you’re taking a risk on behalf of everybody else. We have to try and do this in the least damaging way, but we, we all know we cannot do this without some significant downsides, and this is, this is a balance of risk between if we don’t do enough the virus will take off, and we at the moment, that is the path that we are clearly on, and we, if we do not change course, then we’re going to find ourselves in a very difficult problem Edited October 8, 2020 by peelyfeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, gonzo said: Most are. Same with any other virus. Hits some harder than others. Most. Not all. Over a population of more than 60m thats a lot. What is your cut off for the old? Let's say over 60. That leaves most of the people that run businesses or have senior management positions exposed to an increasing amount of risk. They still are however significantly more at risk than a 20 or 30 year old. So when large numbers of employees become sick for a period of 2 weeks to several months, with a number dead what about the efficiency of that business then? Its all very well in theory, but the practicalities aren't there. Just a potential for a situation thats worse than now. It was asked above how many do we know have it- there's a small number of us here and a few have had it (albeit before mass testing so not confirmed). Sweep has personal testimony as to aspects of long covid, as does Swanny’s maude. My sister in law has also been diagnosed with it. Others with stories on the news with concerns over lung, organ and potential brain damage. Whats the ongoing costs of looking after these otherwise healthy people going to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I think what’s frustrating me most / making me most angry is the fact that I think we could / should be in a less bad situation than we are if individuals would just take a bit more personal responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, wiggy said: I think what’s frustrating me most / making me most angry is the fact that I think we could / should be in a less bad situation than we are if individuals would just take a bit more personal responsibility. 100% wiggly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelyfeet Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Most. Not all. Over a population of more than 60m thats a lot. What is your cut off for the old? Let's say over 60. That leaves most of the people that run businesses or have senior management positions exposed to an increasing amount of risk. They still are however significantly more at risk than a 20 or 30 year old. So when large numbers of employees become sick for a period of 2 weeks to several months, with a number dead what about the efficiency of that business then? Its all very well in theory, but the practicalities aren't there. Just a potential for a situation thats worse than now. It was asked above how many do we know have it- there's a small number of us here and a few have had it (albeit before mass testing so not confirmed). Sweep has personal testimony as to aspects of long covid, as does Swanny’s maude. My sister in law has also been diagnosed with it. Others with stories on the news with concerns over lung, organ and potential brain damage. Whats the ongoing costs of looking after these otherwise healthy people going to be? exactly - if there was a way of isolating all the over 60s without causing loads of damage, I'd be all for it. but it's not practical - there's 18 million of them - add on all the people u60 who are vulnerable, and everyone they live with, how many is that? 60yr olds work and live with other people, care for other people, are cared for by other people - i bet to realistically do it, you'd be looking at isolating at least 20 odd million people for several months, then you'd have to deal with millions of under 60s getting the infection at the same time for a few months - some of them would be ill, and would need to be looked after, some would end up in hospital This too would have massive knock on effects for the economy, and it might not work - nobody has done it - many countries have however, reduced infection with restrictions, so you can see why the govmt are taking this path - they think it will be the lesser of 2 evils at the moment. Edited October 8, 2020 by peelyfeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted October 8, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 From what I’ve seen, and admittedly it isn’t much, the establishments are putting the equipment in place, arrows and 2m marks on the floor, Perspex shielding, notices explaining rules to their customers, etc. Thing is though, once those customers stop sticking to the rules, the public and/bar staff, etc., shrug their shoulders and say nothing. (And why should they?) If the government are putting hard and fast rules out there they also need to ensure there are people out there making sure folk stick to rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudy Posted October 8, 2020 Author Members Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said: Your last name Shipman by any chance? 😊 No comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, wiggy said: I think what’s frustrating me most / making me most angry is the fact that I think we could / should be in a less bad situation than we are if individuals would just take a bit more personal responsibility. This 100%. Fuck blaming the rules/the police/the Govt/masks/droplets/shop/students/ old folk/fat folk/ ill folk/ dossers/scroungers/ every other fucker. Wear a mask , wash your hands go shopping doing a big shop once a week, keep your distance, pay by card etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) We currently have restrictions based on where you live, what industry you work in etc It really shouldn’t be beyond the ability of the government to also make some restrictions based on age Edit - in fact haven’t we already done this? I’m sure that vulnerable groups were asked to shield in lockdown 1 Edited October 8, 2020 by birch-chorley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted October 8, 2020 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2020 the mrs's nan went into hospital in newcastle a week or so ago with a water infection they sorted that out, but she was dehydrated her aunt asked to take her home, but they said no, she has to stay in till she has the all clear they then decided to transfer her to alnwick her aunt asked to take her home again and she'll make sure she drinks plenty water etc, again they said no got the call this morning to confirm what we all knew was coming managed to have a face time call with her, but probably won't see her again in person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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