Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 21, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: We locked down for 3 months and we are back where we were. Lockdown only kicks can down the road. In fairness, all measures do that. Until vaccine or effective cure that's what we'll have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Farrelli said: Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing). Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own. Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months. IF it works, Starmer can then say he was right. Starmer doesn’t have to manage the trillions of debt though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, peelyfeet said: I'm fairy sure Tier 3 isn't going to be enough for many areas, if the govmt want the R rate to get below 1. Unless folk change their behaviour. It's not happening from what I can see I went to the BP Garage at chequerbent last night - about 10 in, no distancing - not one had a mask on, the guy serving had it round his chin. I was in a Garage in worsley a few hours before - same there. I know of a welfare officer at a local kids football club who sent their son into school despite him being told to isolate for 14 days by the club ( tracing didnt get in touch so "I'm just following the guidelines") I know of a supermarket area manager who lied about where he'd been on holiday to his employees so he didnt have to quarantine, and could go into work. I know of mates who have holiday booked over half term out of the area - they're all still going. It's not going to stop spreading at the same rate, unless we reduce the amount of close contacts we make. If we did this off our own back we wouldnt need any restrictions at all. Folk make excuses for themselves, they think their actions will have no bearing. Do you think the majority are following the rules OR The majority are bending the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Sitting at home getting paid 80% minimum isn’t happening again. Pretty sure when this message is taken in people won’t be as keen to lockdown Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up. Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said: That's really bad. Hopefully you've seen the worst examples and it isn't like that everywhere. My experiences down in that there (this here) London: I go to the supermarket - everyone wears a mask and makes an effort to be socially distanced. When I go to work, I go on the train and tube - everyone wears a mask (and when I travel, which is at the end of rush hour, every other seat is left empty). I fill the car up with petrol - everyone wears a mask. I meet up with friends - we do it at a park or in a garden. I might be out for drinks with mates tomorrow - we will be going to an outdoor venue and there will be 6 or fewer of us. It's shit, but that's what we need to do. I know a load of people here who either tested positive or showed the symptoms back in March-May. It was rife. But I know of only 3 or 4 who have shown symptoms or tested positively in the last 3 or 4 months. They all self isolated immediately, until the test results came back (a couple positive and a couple negative). @Not in Crawley- you did the commute this week for the first time since March. How was it? Yeah it was fine - just very, very quiet. Stuck to Thameslink and didn't get on the tube though. Everyone had a mask. Even managed a couple of posh Steins at German Gymnasium on the way home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted October 21, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2020 Mentioned it before, but places like the Lake District are rammed full next week. thousands and thousands are still planning half term breaks. As long as people see this, no tier of lockdown will work. I can, if I so choose, go anywhere I like next week and there's fuck all anyone is going to do about it. Shutting the pubs is pretty much all they can do to try and slow it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Only 3% of cases have come from hospitality in SY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Do you think the majority are following the rules OR The majority are bending the rules I think the majority of people follow the rules, but that makes little/no difference if the minority bend/break them. Round here, we're still in Tier 1 (for now) and it seems, recently as though people are following the rules more than they were previously. Even the local Asda have put security guards on the door now, and if you're not wearing a mask, then they're not letting you in. They also make everybody put some hand sanitiser on before entering as well. Whilst we're all following he rules, the rules are still bollocks......this "Rule of 6" is utterly ridiculous, and surely needs to be stopped, as it will start the virus spreading again. This coming Saturday, me and 4 of my mates are meeting in the local, so that's fine 5 people from 5 different households. We're going to have a few drinks in the afternoon, then go our own ways. Me and my mate Dave are going out with our wives and another couple for a meal (again, 6 people, from 3 households, so that's fine) - the other 3 lads, are then meeting up with another 3 lads in the evening (fuck know where they'll have been during the afternoon), so again, no rules broken, but you can already see how the virus will start to spread down here at some point. Hopefully we'll stay Tier 1, but with "rule of 6" allowed, there is no way that will happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Only 3% of cases have come from hospitality in SY. I’ve said it before strip out care home and hospitals and restate the number to get a better understanding until then it’s a meaningless stat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Sweep said: Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up. Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet I’m glad it’s not just me that sees it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Sweep said: Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up. Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet So let people make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: So let people make money. So just remove all restrictions then and let folk crack on? im not saying I’m completely against that idea as what we have at the moment isn’t doing a great deal and I’m not happy with it either but we have to be mindful that the hospitals will without a shadow of a doubt become overwhelmed and folk will be left to die. That’s the trade off here it’s as simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, gonzo said: So let people make money. I've no problem with that at all. The 10pm thing is just bollocks - I doubt that has improved anything at all (I also don't think it's made things worse) Provided hospitality stick to the rules, then I think they should be allowed to open - and if they're caught not following the rules, even the slighted mistake, then close them down immediately and jail the owner of the business, that would soon bring everybody into line. We're here until we get a vaccine, and that could easily be another year or two away, so we need to do something - it would be good if we could at least by behaving ourselves, and following (even if we don't agree with it) what we're told to by the Government. Our track and trace isn't working well, bit we've got people not using it, and some using it who say they don't like what it says, so they delete it. If you have a mobile/smartphone and you don't have the app on it, then you should be fined. Whilst we're in this position, we need to be run more as a police state, don't give people choice, give them clear direct orders, if they don't follow them, then lock them up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted October 21, 2020 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Do you think the majority are following the rules OR The majority are bending the rules If i had to guess, the majority, say 90% are following 9% bending 1% blatantly ignoring But the exponential nature of the virus means 1% is more than enough for it do what it needs to do IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Escobarp said: So just remove all restrictions then and let folk crack on? im not saying I’m completely against that idea as what we have at the moment isn’t doing a great deal and I’m not happy with it either but we have to be mindful that the hospitals will without a shadow of a doubt become overwhelmed and folk will be left to die. That’s the trade off here it’s as simple as that I think even the biggest simpletons who were saying a few weeks ago "let it rip, let's just crack on" know that can't happen without some restrictions in place....and it's not as simple as just saying we can just shield old and ill people....if so, do we ask them to shield for potentially the next couple of years, and not have any contact with anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Scottish restrictions extended shock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: WHO are against lockdowns JVT is against a lockdown, now Whitty wanted a lockdown on 25 September, but events have demonstrated that SAGE were wrong. Time to move on, Sir Keir and slavish followers Are you sure ? WHO have said lockdowns are not sustainable but might be needed in short term whilst people deal with surges. JVT said national lockdown is not appropriate at the moment. slightly different slant than your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted October 21, 2020 Site Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, Ani said: Are you sure ? WHO have said lockdowns are not sustainable but might be needed in short term whilst people deal with surges. JVT said national lockdown is not appropriate at the moment. slightly different slant than your post. I would agree. JVT basically said a national lockdown is by and large too late now. Whitty also said recently that a decision on lockdown is difficult and other considerations have to be taken into account by the Government. It's all a bit of a pickle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sweep said: I think even the biggest simpletons who were saying a few weeks ago "let it rip, let's just crack on" know that can't happen without some restrictions in place....and it's not as simple as just saying we can just shield old and ill people....if so, do we ask them to shield for potentially the next couple of years, and not have any contact with anybody? Sadly there is no right answer to this. But the only point I’m trying to make repeatedly is there is no more money so folk need to understand this and then look at the situation. I’m sure people’s views then alter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: We locked down for 3 months and we are back where we were. Lockdown only kicks can down the road. Yes and in doing so we saved the hospitals from being overrun. There was always going to be a second wave. Kicking the can down the road is all we can do until there is a vaccine but it does save lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: How many months would a full lockdown need? Bolton's figures did fall when we had our strict measures, so tier 3 can work. As can tier 1 or 2 in relevant areas. Comply and come out, dont and stay in. If tier 3 isn't sufficient then maybe a full local lockdown and no leaving of the area. No need to make people elsewhere suffer, because we've got more than our fair share of twats. Wales government getting absolute daggers from low case areas. Its the choice of each nation to do what's best for themselves ultimately. However, localised systems are the preferred method generally, as has been described and shown on news outlets. They are but better having a short lockdown now than a longer one later. Linking it with school half term whilst curtailing halloween and bonfire night events is also a good idea IMO. It is the choice of each nation, as you say, but a full UK one would have been most effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Farrelli said: Yes and in doing so we saved the hospitals from being overrun. There was always going to be a second wave. Kicking the can down the road is all we can do until there is a vaccine but it does save lives. 13 minutes ago, Ani said: Are you sure ? WHO have said lockdowns are not sustainable but might be needed in short term whilst people deal with surges. JVT said national lockdown is not appropriate at the moment. slightly different slant than your post. WHO say a lockdown is justified to buy time, to reorganise, regroup, rebalance resource, protect health workers who are exhausted. By and large, they’d rather not do it. Starmer isn’t claiming any of those. And, I think we know from experience, it is highly unlikely to be 2-3 weeks. There is no rationale in closing chunks of the country with low infection rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Sweep said: I think even the biggest simpletons who were saying a few weeks ago "let it rip, let's just crack on" know that can't happen without some restrictions in place....and it's not as simple as just saying we can just shield old and ill people....if so, do we ask them to shield for potentially the next couple of years, and not have any contact with anybody? Flip side, if you restrict a business from operating then the government needs to pay, really it should pay more than what’s on the table currently So, can public finances take that sort of cost for the next couple of years? Eventually the pot runs dry and public sector workers don’t get their wages. That won’t do the vulnerable any good either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Farrelli said: Yes and in doing so we saved the hospitals from being overrun. There was always going to be a second wave. Kicking the can down the road is all we can do until there is a vaccine but it does save lives. It’s a last last resort and starmer wanting a full national lockdown even in very low infection rate areas is mentalist, just taking opposite view to the government as per usual. Not fit for power. Edited October 21, 2020 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Brazil rolling out a vaccine. Provided by the Chinese. Whod ave thunked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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