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Just now, Escobarp said:

Thing I don’t get. And please someone who has this viewpoint help me understand 

People are sayid. Tier 3 kills businesses and we would be better locking down. 
 

why do people think , misguidedly maybe, that if they are locked down and forced To close that any more money will suddenly be forthcoming? Just because it happened before my understanding is it won’t be happening again. So by closing completely they will actually be worse off?

anyone point me to why they believe it will not play out that way?

Probably correct, hopefully we’ll not find out 

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8 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Thing I don’t get. And please someone who has this viewpoint help me understand 

People are sayid. Tier 3 kills businesses and we would be better locking down. 
 

why do people think , misguidedly maybe, that if they are locked down and forced To close that any more money will suddenly be forthcoming? Just because it happened before my understanding is it won’t be happening again. So by closing completely they will actually be worse off?

anyone point me to why they believe it will not play out that way?

It’s a mystery to me as well. As Peely said it takes 2-3 weeks for any restriction to take effect so in reality it would be much longer. I’d have to close. The 2 hairdressers at the side of me would close also. Multiply that by thousands across the country and that’s many more businesses other than pubs, restaurants etc. affected.

 

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13 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

WHO are against lockdowns

JVT is against a lockdown, now

Whitty wanted a lockdown on 25 September, but events have demonstrated that SAGE were wrong.

Time to move on, Sir Keir and slavish followers 

i don't want one neither

BUT

Why are other countries now doing them?

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1 minute ago, Spider said:

i don't want one neither

BUT

Why are other countries now doing them?

Maybe the virus is too widespread to use a local system?

Thats where we were previously. 

If our local system isn't respected, that's where we'll end up. But it won't be the fault of folk not doing their bit of course.

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2 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

It’s a mystery to me as well. As Peely said it takes 2-3 weeks for any restriction to take effect so in reality it would be much longer. I’d have to close. The 2 hairdressers at the side of me would close also. Multiply that by thousands across the country and that’s many more businesses other than pubs, restaurants etc. affected.

 

Thank Boby. Hopefully someone can give us the opposing view and let us know what they know that we don’t that makes lockdown financially more viable for all these business impacted by tier 3 cos I haven’t seen anything to back up that view point as yet 

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12 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

WHO are against lockdowns

JVT is against a lockdown, now

Whitty wanted a lockdown on 25 September, but events have demonstrated that SAGE were wrong.

Time to move on, Sir Keir and slavish followers 

Slavish followers ? That’s a bit rich you and plenty of others on here are pretty one eyed when it comes to criticism of the present government. 

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16 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

WHO are against lockdowns

JVT is against a lockdown, now

Whitty wanted a lockdown on 25 September, but events have demonstrated that SAGE were wrong.

Time to move on, Sir Keir and slavish followers 

Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing).

Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own.

Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months.

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6 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing).

Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own.

Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months.

We locked down for 3 months and we are back where we were.  Lockdown only kicks can down the road. 

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2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing).

Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own.

Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months.

How many months would a full lockdown need?

Bolton's figures did fall when we had our strict measures, so tier 3 can work. As can tier 1 or 2 in relevant areas. 

Comply and come out, dont and stay in. 

If tier 3 isn't sufficient then maybe a full local lockdown and no leaving of the area. No need to make people elsewhere suffer, because we've got more than our fair share of twats.

Wales government getting absolute daggers from low case areas.

Its the choice of each nation to do what's best for themselves ultimately. However, localised systems are the preferred method generally, as has been described and shown on news outlets.

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9 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing).

Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own.

Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months.

You may well be right. But there is no extra money for people during lockdown. People aren’t realizing this. Sitting at home getting paid 80% minimum isn’t happening again. Pretty sure when this message is taken in people won’t be as keen to lockdown 

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12 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Short circuit break lockdowns are the answer (as Wales, Northern Ireland are doing).

Tier 2 hasn't worked and neither will Tier 3 on it's own.

Time to acknowledge that Keir is right unless you want to be in tier 3 for months.

IF it works, Starmer can then say he was right. Starmer doesn’t have to manage the trillions of debt though. 

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3 hours ago, peelyfeet said:

I'm fairy sure Tier 3 isn't going to be enough for many areas, if the govmt want the R rate to get below 1.

Unless folk change their behaviour.

It's not happening from what I can see 

I went to the BP Garage at chequerbent last night - about 10 in, no distancing - not one had a mask on, the guy serving had it round his chin.  I was in a Garage in worsley a few hours before - same there. 

I know of a welfare officer at a local kids football club who sent their son into school despite him being told to isolate for 14 days by the club ( tracing didnt get in touch so "I'm just following the guidelines")

I know of a supermarket area manager who lied about where he'd been on holiday to his employees so he didnt have to quarantine, and could go into work. 

I know of mates who have holiday booked over half term out of the area - they're all still going.

It's not going to stop spreading at the same rate,  unless we reduce the amount of close contacts we make.

If we did this off our own back we wouldnt need any restrictions at all.

Folk make excuses for themselves, they think their actions will have no bearing. 

Do you think the majority are following the rules 

OR 

The majority are bending the rules 

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12 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

 Sitting at home getting paid 80% minimum isn’t happening again. Pretty sure when this message is taken in people won’t be as keen to lockdown 

Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up.

Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet

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2 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

That's really bad. Hopefully you've seen the worst examples and it isn't like that everywhere.

My experiences down in that there (this here) London: I go to the supermarket - everyone wears a mask and makes an effort to be socially distanced. When I go to work, I go on the train and tube - everyone wears a mask (and when I travel, which is at the end of rush hour, every other seat is left empty). I fill the car up with petrol - everyone wears a mask. I meet up with friends - we do it at a park or in a garden. I might be out for drinks with mates tomorrow - we will be going to an outdoor venue and there will be 6 or fewer of us. It's shit, but that's what we need to do.

I know a load of people here who either tested positive or showed the symptoms back in March-May. It was rife. But I know of only 3 or 4 who have shown symptoms or tested positively in the last 3 or 4 months. They all self isolated immediately, until the test results came back (a couple positive and a couple negative). 

@Not in Crawley- you did the commute this week for the first time since March. How was it?

Yeah it was fine - just very, very quiet. Stuck to Thameslink and didn't get on the tube though. Everyone had a mask. Even managed a couple of posh Steins at German Gymnasium on the way home.

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Mentioned it before, but places like the Lake District are rammed full next week.

thousands and thousands are still planning half term breaks.

As long as people see this, no tier of lockdown will work.

I can, if I so choose, go anywhere I like next week and there's fuck all anyone is going to do about it.

Shutting the pubs is pretty much all they can do to try and slow it down.

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7 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Do you think the majority are following the rules 

OR 

The majority are bending the rules 

I think the majority of people follow the rules, but that makes little/no difference if the minority bend/break them.

Round here, we're still in Tier 1 (for now) and it seems, recently as though people are following the rules more than they were previously. Even the local Asda have put security guards on the door now, and if you're not wearing a mask, then they're not letting you in. They also make everybody put some hand sanitiser on before entering as well.

Whilst we're all following he rules, the rules are still bollocks......this "Rule of 6" is utterly ridiculous, and surely needs to be stopped, as it will start the virus spreading again. This coming Saturday, me and 4 of my mates are meeting in the local, so that's fine 5 people from 5 different households. We're going to have a few drinks in the afternoon, then go our own ways. Me and my mate Dave are going out with our wives and another couple for a meal (again, 6 people, from 3 households, so that's fine) - the other 3 lads, are then meeting up with another 3 lads in the evening (fuck know where they'll have been during the afternoon), so again, no rules broken, but you can already see how the virus will start to spread down here at some point. Hopefully we'll stay Tier 1, but with "rule of 6" allowed, there is no way that will happen

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1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Only 3% of cases have come from hospitality in SY.

 

I’ve said it before strip out care home and hospitals and restate the number to get a better understanding until then it’s a meaningless stat 

 

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9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up.

Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet

I’m glad it’s not just me that sees it. 

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10 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Exactly, there really is no more money, it's already going to take decades to pay back the debts already racked up.

Heaven knows what the correct course of action is - it looks, in reality, as though we're going to be knackered until we can get a vaccine, and that's still many, many, many months away yet

So let people make money.

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3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

So let people make money.

So just remove all restrictions then and let folk crack on? 
 

im not saying I’m completely against that idea as what we have at the moment isn’t doing a great deal and I’m not happy with it either but we have to be mindful that the hospitals will without a shadow of a doubt become overwhelmed and folk will be left to die. That’s the trade off here it’s as simple as that

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Just now, gonzo said:

So let people make money.

I've no problem with that at all.

The 10pm thing is just bollocks - I doubt that has improved anything at all (I also don't think it's made things worse)

Provided hospitality stick to the rules, then I think they should be allowed to open - and if they're caught not following the rules, even the slighted mistake, then close them down immediately and jail the owner of the business, that would soon bring everybody into line.

We're here until we get a vaccine, and that could easily be another year or two away, so we need to do something - it would be good if we could at least by behaving ourselves, and following (even if we don't agree with it) what we're told to by the Government. Our track and trace isn't working well, bit we've got people not using it, and some using it who say they don't like what it says, so they delete it. If you have a mobile/smartphone and you don't have the app on it, then you should be fined. Whilst we're in this position, we need to be run more as a police state, don't give people choice, give them clear direct orders, if they don't follow them, then lock them up

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22 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Do you think the majority are following the rules 

OR 

The majority are bending the rules 

If i had to guess, the majority, say 90% are following

9% bending

1% blatantly ignoring

But the exponential nature of the virus means 1% is more than enough for it do what it needs to do

IMO

 

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