Coronavirus

[mickbrown]

10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If another system works better then it shouldn’t be sacrosanct. This is about delivering the best service and giving our healthcare workers the best tools and facilities that we can.

So nowt to do with the governments of South Korea and Germany hitting harder and sooner than us?

[Jol_BWFC]

I’m not sure we should be deciding to change our NHS model to that of South Korea and Germany because of how their figures are looking for a one-off event like this. Also, isn’t it the sheer amount of testing that has been the major factor in those countries? That’s their Government’s testing policy, not the healthcare system. 
 

Unless I’m mistaken, I recall a few months back you were championing the Spanish system and suggesting the UK should follow the Spanish part privatisation model. On the logic you are using about how countries’ hospitals have coped, we should be distancing ourselves from that alternative model that you were championing a while ago. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jol_BWFC

[Casino]

On here?

[mickbrown]

2 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

...and some were championing the Italian Healthcare system as one of the best in Europe.

The spread of the virus has nowt to do with healthcare systems. It’s how governments dealt with testing, contact tracing, quarantines and ultimately lockdowns. 
 

The healthcare systems pick up the whatever is left to deal with following the success/failure of the above measures. 

[Mounts Kipper]

9 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

I’m not sure we should be deciding to change our NHS model to that of South Korea and Germany because of how their figures are looking for a one-off event like this. Also, isn’t it the sheer amount of testing that has been the major factor in those countries? That’s their Government’s testing policy, not the healthcare system. 
 

Unless I’m mistaken, I recall a few months back you were championing the Spanish system and suggesting the UK should follow the Spanish part privatisation model. On the logic you are using about how countries’ hospitals have coped, we should be distancing ourselves from that alternative model that you were championing a while ago. 

The Spanish system is voluntary top up for private healthcare, from what I’m reading the German system is that when you start work you are subscribed to to top ups from your salary and the company you work for also pays in for you. 

[Mounts Kipper]

15 minutes ago, Ruba Mustafa said:

Hope u saved one for urself them I don’t have to look at u next time I see u! 

 

😊

I’ve also got one for you in case mine falls off. 😂

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[mickbrown]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The Spanish system is voluntary top up for private healthcare, from what I’m reading the German system is that when you start work you are subscribed to to top ups from your salary and the company you work for also pays in for you. 

Sounds a lot like National Insurance. 

[burnden]

43 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I had 400 face masks which I gave away, some to a care home, some to shopworkers, some to teachers, just hope it might of helped in a small way. 

3 Nurses and 1 Nhs cleaner properly appreciated those masks mate 

[Mounts Kipper]

29 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

So nowt to do with the governments of South Korea and Germany hitting harder and sooner than us?

Did Germany hit harder? Yes they’ve tested but that’s not the major factor, they have more ICU beds and more ICU staff, suggest to me that they are better funded Than we are. This is an interesting read. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-are-so-few-germans-dying-coronavirus-experts-wonder-n1168361

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, burnden said:

3 Nurses and 1 Nhs cleaner properly appreciated those masks mate 

Pleased to help, nurses are hero’s but also the nhs cleaners who are often forgotten. 👍

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Sounds a lot like National Insurance. 

It might do but is our national insurance used that way these days? I like the fact it’s compulsory for every worker to have private health top ups and companies also have to chip in. It’s important we have open mind on how we go forward funding healthcare. 

[Casino]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Did Germany hit harder? Yes they’ve tested but that’s not the major factor, they have more ICU beds and more ICU staff, suggest to me that they are better funded Than we are. This is an interesting read. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-are-so-few-germans-dying-coronavirus-experts-wonder-n1168361

Unless we have reached capacity in terms of demand on icu, then it's irrelevant

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, Casino said:

Unless we have reached capacity in terms of demand on icu, then it's irrelevant

German average infected age is lower than  ours, that plays a big part also the reporting of deaths in Germany isn’t same as ours but not sure how much of a part that plays in the figures. 

[Casino]

We are told that generally, younger infected don't need hospitalising

Ergo, we won't be testing our younger patients

Owt else you want me to rip apart.

[radcliffe white]

823 with an 11 year old included latest figure 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

We are told that generally, younger infected don't need hospitalising

Ergo, we won't be testing our younger patients

Owt else you want me to rip apart.

Fuck me its petrocelli. 😂🤣😂
 

for the record those in icu in Germany have lower average age than U.K. icu. You better go back to the drawing board. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Guest Nordkurve]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It might do but is our national insurance used that way these days? I like the fact it’s compulsory for every worker to have private health top ups and companies also have to chip in. It’s important we have open mind on how we go forward funding healthcare. 

German system: If you earn more than 50,000 Euro per year you can opt out of the state system and go private. Private, at least initially is cheaper, but as you get older and might need to be on medication you will find your premiums going up, and by a lot in some cases. You opt out of the state system, there is no easy way back in. I have a lot of former coworkers who regret doing it. The state system uses many medical companies. You can choose who you wish to sign up with. The percentage of your wage in total is around 17% but your company has to pay half of it. I am not sure how it works if self employed. My wife doesn’t work so she is covered by my contributions. If she is working and earns more than the minimum of 450 Euro per month (mini-job as they are known) she would pay her own contributions. As soon as she stops working it becomes covered by mine again. 

We are with AOK Bayern. If you are in hospital it is maximum two person room. Wards don’t seem to exist anyway. The biggest room I have seen is four beds which one of our friends was in a few years ago.

Waiting time for operations very low. My wife needed a routine Cyst removal that would need an overnight stay. Was in hospital for the op within a week of being told. I had a frozen shoulder some years ago. I got the x-rays and the MRI scan the very same day I first went to the doctor about it.

My opinion is in the UK the NHS does an amazing job, but it doesn’t get anywhere near the money it needs. For example, the combined payment between me and my company is around 800 Euro per month. That’s just health insurance. I think I used to pay about 150 quid per month in NI contributions in the UK and that includes money for the pension. I think I pay about 450 Euro per month here just for state pension contributions. That’s why the pension here is so much better than the UK. I’m not sure everyone in the UK understands that’s why the pension is so much better in Germany.

I think it would take a big change in people’s mentality to understand that they need to be paying a hell of a lot more in to a system to expect it to run in the same way “state” hospitals do over here.

[Guest Nordkurve]

12 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

German average infected age is lower than  ours, that plays a big part also the reporting of deaths in Germany isn’t same as ours but not sure how much of a part that plays in the figures. 

In Germany if you die and it is suspected you might have had Covid-19 you are tested. If it shows you had it you are recorded as having had it. Not Pneumonia, not Cancer, not Diabetes. Covid-19 will be reported as cause of death. No hiding the reason.

Just to add, both my Daughter in laws parents are Doctors here. One is actually a Professor Doctor of Oncology and his wife is a Senior Doctor at Landshut hospital here in Bavaria. I get my info from them not from Twitter or Facebook.

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Nordkurve

[Rudy]

2 minutes ago, Nordkurve said:

In Germany if you die and it is suspected you might have had Covid-19 you are tested. If it shows you had it you are recorded as having had it. Not Pneumonia, not Cancer, not Diabetes. Covid-19 will be reported as cause of death. No hiding the reason.

We can’t test the living enough nevermind the dead 

[Sweep]

27 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Sounds a lot like National Insurance. 

Its fairly similar, All workers contribute about 8 percent of their salary into a public health insurance pool and employers match that contribution.

Germany spends around 11% of its GDP on its health system, the UK around 9.5% - but bear in mind that Germany has a far, far bigger GDP than we do, then that's a lot more money they're spending on their health system (I know they have a larger population, about 10% higher as well, but their GDP absolutely dwarfs ours, its about 25% greater than its from memory)

Looking at the numbers, its not really a surprise that they have a better health care system than we have. It's down to the money they contribute though, nothing anything more special than that. So, all we need to do is increase NI by about 2% and make sure its channelled directly to the NHS.....easy 😁

 

[Guest Nordkurve]

12 minutes ago, Rudy’s Message said:

We can’t test the living enough nevermind the dead 

You have to ask why that is. We have had a few guys at work who had symptoms and had to go home. They got tested. Then, the guys who worked in close contact with them also got tested. Test, test, test. Trace potential contacts. Test them. I cannot believe that the UK can’t get as many test kits as the other Countries are getting. I also can’t believe the UK can’t get access to all the PPE it needs. We have more Cargo flights arriving from Shanghai, Hong Kong and Shenzhen than I can ever remember, even passenger Aircraft with just Cargo onboard. Three times as many flights as before. Every one of them full of medical stuff like Masks, PPE etc. Everyone I work with, Germans, other Brits, Czechs, Poles, even a guy from a Dubai, they all say the same, what the  fuck is going on over there. Why aren’t they testing everyone with symptoms. A lot of the Brits especially still think that the herd immunity thing that the Government said was in fact a misunderstanding, is in fact still happening.

[Guest Nordkurve]

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

We know that, but unfortunately that is what the news was saying a few weeks ago, that the Italian health system is one of the best in Europe and best equipped to deal with the CV outbreak.

In the weeks to come we will find out how the Italian system stacks up against the NHS. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Ahhh your blaming our Government. 

Fancy that.

[Escobarp]

5 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Fancy that.

Strange isn’t it that in a time of such world crisis certain folk just want to snipe at the government and seem to portray a desire that they hope they fail spectacularly. Whilst at the same time talking about saving lives. Very odd. 

but nowt as strange as folk 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Nordkurve said:

In the weeks to come we will find out how the Italian system stacks up against the NHS. 

I'll repeat what I said last night; at this stage it is about ensuring the NHS has the capacity to manage. It has. The strategy, therefore, is (currently) successful.

As Mick and I agreed last night; there is a long way to go in this story.

Edited April 11, 2020 by boltondiver
Wank spelling