Coronavirus

[Duck Egg]

I read the whole of Jules piece and found it surprisingly interesting and informative.  Then Peely, who's opinion on here I've learned to trust, comes along and trashes it.

I'm not bright or patient enough to dig deeper, so I'll stick with being careful and masked up until it's all over.

Thanks to both though.  Its infinitely more preferable than seeing those interviews on the news of a man in a pub, telling us all we shouldn't be in pubs and we're not being as careful or as responsible as he is.

[Ani]

22 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

I dont think he is arguing either case, he just put up another side of what some other experts (that's if they are) are saying, adding it to the debate as such.

With us not being experts, it makes it harder to which experts to believe, especially when we are told by the government to follow expert advice. Hence why people are so divided on it, like someone else stated, it's getting like Brexit.

Ok to put it another way. 
 

What are the restrictions that are currently in place that are really causing people angst ? 
 

I hate wearing a mask, but for the sake for an hour shopping it is bearable. I am pissed that can not go on holiday. Pubs shutting early does not bother me. Working from home not an issue. Not seeing family and mates is the biggest alongside no football. 
 

But none of that is as bad as seeing pictures of Twiggy in ICU. With infections going through the roof what alternative is there to more restrictions ? Unless the data is wrong then we are fucked for other reasons. 
 

I know there are experts with different views but the few I have looked at (on Twitter so maybe not experts !!) were also saying it had gone away and we should crack on two weeks ago. I get people have different views I disagree with a lot the clowns have done recently. But if we accept infections are rising doing nothing is surely not an option. 
 

Blaming false positives is one thing I have seen. Why were we not getting those 2 weeks ago ? It is a fucking mess the spirit of all in together there was earlier in the year is well and truly fucked. 

[gonzo]

26 minutes ago, Ani said:

Ok to put it another way. 
 

What are the restrictions that are currently in place that are really causing people angst ? 
 

 

Bankrupting late night bar and club owners and all the people that rely on their income.

[Big E]

31 minutes ago, Ani said:

I hate wearing a mask, but for the sake for an hour shopping it is bearable. I am pissed that can not go on holiday. Pubs shutting early does not bother me. Working from home not an issue. Not seeing family and mates is the biggest alongside no football. 
 

But none of that is as bad as seeing pictures of Twiggy in ICU. With infections going through the roof what alternative is there to more restrictions ? Unless the data is wrong then we are fucked for other reasons. 

I don't think it is the masks etc. i think its the issue of things like 6 of my friend group being furloughed and knowing they probably won't go back if it carried on much longer. Redunancies etc are going to causing larger issues long term. We have had to pull my friend to one side this week as he has changed massively and is struggling mentally.  This is what people i know against a lock down are frustrated by. 

You can work from home which is great for you. i know loads who do not have this option. do we just forget about them because people like yourself are ok working from home? 

Nobody is saying people being in ICU isn't terrible (the fact twiggy is in ICU will clearly bring it closer to home for most).

[Carlos]

Had a drive up St Helen's Rd last night, folk wandering in to the shit shops there, not a mask in sight, hands being shaken etc. Let's be honest, had they worn a mask or not makes no odds when they are shaking hands. The narrative needs to change.

[Sweep]

Just now, Carlos said:

Had a drive up St Helen's Rd last night, folk wandering in to the shit shops there, not a mask in sight, hands being shaken etc. Let's be honest, had they worn a mask or not makes no odds when they are shaking hands. The narrative needs to change.

Agreed, this is the bonkers thing, you would think folk would be "self policing" but that's just not happening, there are still loads of people who just don't give a fuck

[Spider]

2 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Agreed, this is the bonkers thing, you would think folk would be "self policing" but that's just not happening, there are still loads of people who just don't give a fuck

These are the same people who say the "message" is confusing.

It is to a degree, but overwhelmingly we all know that this spreads very easily. That's a consistent message that has been coming across for months now.

Basically, it's only a problem when it affects them directly. Until then, they're just ignoring it.

The cunts.

[Escobarp]

9 minutes ago, Spider said:

These are the same people who say the "message" is confusing.

It is to a degree, but overwhelmingly we all know that this spreads very easily. That's a consistent message that has been coming across for months now.

Basically, it's only a problem when it affects them directly. Until then, they're just ignoring it.

The cunts.

Very well put 👍🏼

[Tonge moor green jacket]

I had personal experience of this recently. 

A wonderful bloke, from a religion/culture where folk seem to be more accepting of death, extremely honorable, generous etc.

He marched up to me, virtually grabbed my hand and shook it.

We conversed briefly, at a good distance it has to be said. 

All the time I was conscious of my hand, and determined not to touch anything. Then went immediately to the van and sanitised vigorously. 

Some huge barriers to overcome when trying to get some people to change approach, whatever their reason for not doing.

[gonzo]

Folk would soon change their tune if restrictions meant they couldnt earn any money.

[jules_darby]

40 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Bankrupting late night bar and club owners and all the people that rely on their income.

Pardon my late response I’m busy in the day

It’s not just late night venues

Restaurants. 10pm chuck out they cannot accept tables after about 8pm.  They are fucked. The hospitality industry is going to be decimated 

Why should the ones that have spent thousands on making their premises covid secure now lose out?

Scare tactics to WFH...those local outlets in city centres that have literally just reopened and unfurloughed staff as footfall returned are bolloxed

“6 months” as a statement - goodbye consumer confidence 

I’m not against the restrictions pre this week as such but I believe that we are now causing more harm. For me, this is about it creating MORE DEATHS, not about civil liberties & the economy so we all get rich.

Ive extended family members that have died of (or more likely with) Covid, and I have a friend who took his own life because of it, so I am not looking at this from anything other than a human angle.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jules_darby said:

Pardon my late response I’m busy in the day

It’s not just late night venues

Restaurants. 10pm chuck out they cannot accept tables after about 8pm.  They are fucked. The hospitality industry is going to be decimated 

Why should the ones that have spent thousands on making their premises covid secure now lose out?

Scare tactics to WFH...those local outlets in city centres that have literally just reopened and unfurloughed staff as footfall returned are bolloxed

“6 months” as a statement - goodbye consumer confidence 

I’m not against the restrictions pre this week as such but I believe that we are now causing more harm. For me, this is about it creating MORE DEATHS, not about civil liberties & the economy so we all get rich.

Ive extended family members that have died of (or more likely with) Covid, and I have a friend who took his own life because of it, so I am not looking at this from anything other than a human angle.

 

Spot on

[Sweep]

30 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

I am not disagreeing with you, just merely pointing out that different experts have differing views and opinions, hence why the public are becoming confused and impatient.

I think everybody is concerned, but to what extent I suppose depends on their lifestyle.

I get that - but folk need to ignore "experts" and just do what they're told to do by the Government  - if that's wrong, then so be it, but we should follow what they're telling us, not just ignore it and do what we want

[Tonge moor green jacket]

20 minutes ago, jules_darby said:

Pardon my late response I’m busy in the day

It’s not just late night venues

Restaurants. 10pm chuck out they cannot accept tables after about 8pm.  They are fucked. The hospitality industry is going to be decimated 

Why should the ones that have spent thousands on making their premises covid secure now lose out?

Scare tactics to WFH...those local outlets in city centres that have literally just reopened and unfurloughed staff as footfall returned are bolloxed

“6 months” as a statement - goodbye consumer confidence 

I’m not against the restrictions pre this week as such but I believe that we are now causing more harm. For me, this is about it creating MORE DEATHS, not about civil liberties & the economy so we all get rich.

Ive extended family members that have died of (or more likely with) Covid, and I have a friend who took his own life because of it, so I am not looking at this from anything other than a human angle.

 

Such premises shouldn't lose out in all reality. Just closing the unscrupulous ones clearly makes more sense, but I'm not sure how this would be imposed and monitored. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, Sweep said:

I get that - but folk need to ignore "experts" and just do what they're told to do by the Government  - if that's wrong, then so be it, but we should follow what they're telling us, not just ignore it and do what we want

This.

I had a read at the structure of sage a while back. It has its tentacles out into the scientific world to assimilate as much data as possible and come up with recommendations. 

If experts have something to offer, do it via these channels. 

Shooting off at tangents doesn't help one jot.

[Guest]

Just now, Mr Grey said:

Absolutely agree, social media doesn't help and all these pub science experts.

The quicker everyone adheres to the new rules, the quicker it's over, although as of now, to some people there seems mo end, that's basically why I mentioned about them being impatient.

Assuming the Govt and its advisers are correct

☺️

[Sweep]

7 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Assuming the Govt and its advisers are correct

☺️

There is of course that 🙂

We do know for sure though that some listening to the Government and some ignoring them isn't going to make this go away. If the Government is "following the science" consistently, then you would hope we'd be on the right track. My worry is that following "the science" causes wider issues for the economy, and the Government may decide to pick and choose what parts of the science they need/want to follow.

This closing of pubs/restaurants at 10pm is a proper cop out - get them all closed fully if you think they're a problem. I'm really not sure if 10pm closing is the answer, as I don't see that it'll make a huge difference, 

[Gonk]

11 hours ago, peelyfeet said:

I'm surprised they arent telling folk more to get fitter, eat healthier, lose weight if obese, vit D. 

Not seen the govmt data behind their study yet. The pro vit D studies don't claim it reduce the chance of catching covid, just the length and severity of illness.

I've invested £7.50 in a years supply at 4000iu so you'd better be right or I'll be asking for a refund

[bolton va va]

42 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I get that - but folk need to ignore "experts" and just do what they're told to do by the Government  - if that's wrong, then so be it, but we should follow what they're telling us, not just ignore it and do what we want

Exactly......at least the government are following the advice taken from the consensus of a group of experts. For those who will not follow government guidelines, they will always be able to find some random crank " expert " who will justify their bellendery. 

Mask watch ........on a late Manc - Bolton train last night, probably less than 50% wearing masks. Very depressing.

[Guest]

Sturgeon’s golden mask is slipping

[Zico]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Folk would soon change their tune if restrictions meant they couldnt earn any money.

I have seen my income half by 50% because clients are having to shut up shop and have reduced income

I was / am fine with how it was the last few weeks, and saw that as the best/only way forward

the issue isn't with those who are happy to stick to the rules, it's with those who don't want to

why the fuck should they get to do what they want whilst spreading it around?

it they hadn't been, there wouldn't be these new further restrictions

hopefully they will change their tune when they can't breath properly

[peelyfeet]

5 hours ago, boltondiver said:

🤗

Good luck!

 

3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Good luck. Anything in particular, or generally what can you do?

Doesn't do any harm if we can keep our ears open.

Thanks both, not had to look for work for years, but unfortunatley the arse has fallen out of the SME Internet connectivity market, and it will be so until folk return to working in offices - I've got some residual income so I'll be fine, but need to top it up with whatever I can find. To be honest I might re-train and do something totally different until pension time, telecoms isn't very rewarding. God knows what I'll end up doing.  

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, jules_darby said:

Pardon my late response I’m busy in the day

It’s not just late night venues

Restaurants. 10pm chuck out they cannot accept tables after about 8pm.  They are fucked. The hospitality industry is going to be decimated 

Why should the ones that have spent thousands on making their premises covid secure now lose out?

Scare tactics to WFH...those local outlets in city centres that have literally just reopened and unfurloughed staff as footfall returned are bolloxed

“6 months” as a statement - goodbye consumer confidence 

I’m not against the restrictions pre this week as such but I believe that we are now causing more harm. For me, this is about it creating MORE DEATHS, not about civil liberties & the economy so we all get rich.

Ive extended family members that have died of (or more likely with) Covid, and I have a friend who took his own life because of it, so I am not looking at this from anything other than a human angle.

 

Lots of industries are fucked. We can't work. I've spent 20 years basically working to make as many people as possible come to a certain place at a certain time. The knock on effect is huge. No spend on Out of Home, Print is decimated, digital spend has increased but not enough to cover. People stop doing large scale projects so third party suppliers such as developers aren't getting income. This is the tip of a very nasty iceburg.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

 

Thanks both, not had to look for work for years, but unfortunatley the arse has fallen out of the SME Internet connectivity market, and it will be so until folk return to working in offices - I've got some residual income so I'll be fine, but need to top it up with whatever I can find. To be honest I might re-train and do something totally different until pension time, telecoms isn't very rewarding. God knows what I'll end up doing.  

I knew you’d be back....

😎

[Ani]

2 hours ago, Big E said:

I don't think it is the masks etc. i think its the issue of things like 6 of my friend group being furloughed and knowing they probably won't go back if it carried on much longer. Redunancies etc are going to causing larger issues long term. We have had to pull my friend to one side this week as he has changed massively and is struggling mentally.  This is what people i know against a lock down are frustrated by. 

You can work from home which is great for you. i know loads who do not have this option. do we just forget about them because people like yourself are ok working from home? 

Nobody is saying people being in ICU isn't terrible (the fact twiggy is in ICU will clearly bring it closer to home for most).

Ok. Response is to you Jules Mr Grey and Gonzo. Not doing multi quotes though.😁 

I think the important thing is that we avoid this becoming as divisive as Brexit so we need to understand others peoples views. None of you 4 I would class as loons so just interested in the reasons behind questioning  the new rules.  
 

I do see why the impact on certain sectors and people is unfair. But am struggling what people think could happen given the spike in infections. I do not think claiming the spike is false is useful in that sense. The Govt reduced controls and infections went up. The only example I have of a bar breaking the rules was a bar in Leeds that was Covid compliant but on Saturday night when full they were letting groups of 2 share tables with other groups of 2 which defeats the whole objective. 
The 10 o’clock rule seems bizarre. I would have thought spreading the time would avoid bottle necks. Why not introduce a vigorous compliance regime with places being visited on a regular basis and closed down or more importantly praised depending on compliance. Similar to the hygiene rating these places get. 
I am not working at the moment so the impact on me has been more about not finding work rather than conditions. 
What I am not seeing from the anti lockdown side is the alternative. With nearly 5000 infections a day and a R rate nearly 1.5 what do we do ? 
I echo many of the comments above that a major issue is the Govt lack of credibility on enforcement. Cummings took the piss , they are talking about breaking International law on Brexit but expect everyone to fall in line. 
I will follow the guidelines not because I think I am a martyr or better than others for doing so (as some people on social media seem to think they are) but just because it seems the right thing to do.