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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

The forgotten years of BWFC: 1980-83


paulhanley

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2 hours ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

I’ve got loads from 90s on vhs how would I go about getting them on dvd 

I've just unearthed a shit load of vhs stuff while on tidying duties. 

According to the labels:

V Ipswich 14 May 2000 play off first leg

Last game at Burnden

v Villa FA Cup semi

One just titled v tranmere (no date)

v WBA 2 March 97

Coca Cola Cup (I assume final)

v Tranmere 23 Jan 94

v Villa (no other details)

 

Free to anyone who can use them and has the facilities to do me a disc or digital file copy. 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Marc505 said:

No chance! In fact the only Bolton stuff I think I can remember ever seeing on these "classics" compilations is the Reading play off final, the Ipswich game featuring Worthy's goal and the Fulham promotion game in 78. 

Probably not much else worth exposing a national audience to I suppose!

They do sometimes show a big match, that has us as the second game at hull

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1 hour ago, MickyD said:

I've just unearthed a shit load of vhs stuff while on tidying duties. 

According to the labels:

V Ipswich 14 May 2000 play off first leg

Last game at Burnden

v Villa FA Cup semi

One just titled v tranmere (no date)

v WBA 2 March 97

Coca Cola Cup (I assume final)

v Tranmere 23 Jan 94

v Villa (no other details)

 

Free to anyone who can use them and has the facilities to do me a disc or digital file copy. 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the labels 😀

I used to mark my porn up with Something different 

 

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16 hours ago, paulhanley said:

That Seamus shirt is a good thing to have. It is a bit of a forgotten era so probably pretty unique. 

Those London followings were really poor considering we've generally been guaranteed a fairly reasonable following given the amount of London based ex pat Bolton fans. Maybe there's more of them now than there was then. 

I was at Uni 1980-83 and had to pick my games , best London following I can recall in that era was an FA cup match at Crystal Palace when we had maybe 800 on 

One thing that sticks in my mind with that game was the banter - we were put ,  as they did at Palace in those days , in a corner quadrant on the open terracing separated by fencing from the Palace fans .

When we started singing , there was a lot of Saarf London accents shouting randomly over the fence  "You Waat " ... " You Waat" 

As the game went on it evolved into Bolton fans mimicking the Palace fans and shouting back "you what" and  throwing the odd "Eh" in every time the Palace fans sang 

Am sure that afternoons banter  led to the origin of that  famous terrace classic of the 80s " You what You What You What You What You What  Eh " 

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36 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

I was at Uni 1980-83 and had to pick my games , best London following I can recall in that era was an FA cup match at Crystal Palace when we had maybe 800 on 

One thing that sticks in my mind with that game was the banter - we were put ,  as they did at Palace in those days , in a corner quadrant on the open terracing separated by fencing from the Palace fans .

When we started singing , there was a lot of Saarf London accents shouting randomly over the fence  "You Waat " ... " You Waat" 

As the game went on it evolved into Bolton fans mimicking the Palace fans and shouting back "you what" and  throwing the odd "Eh" in every time the Palace fans sang 

Am sure that afternoons banter  led to the origin of that  famous terrace classic of the 80s " You what You What You What You What You What  Eh " 

That's the type of post I was hoping for when starting this thread. I guess away followings those days were poor generally given the economic situation and Palace is probably the most difficult ground to get to. And of course being in 81/2 it was right in the middle of the infamous run of games without a win in the smoke. Good memory Sir!

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47 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

That's the type of post I was hoping for when starting this thread. I guess away followings those days were poor generally given the economic situation and Palace is probably the most difficult ground to get to. And of course being in 81/2 it was right in the middle of the infamous run of games without a win in the smoke. Good memory Sir!

Attendances generally fell markedly at this time 

Just a quick example - in  1976/77 the average attendance in just the top division was 29,400. It declined in each successive season to 1983/84 when it was just 18,851 thats a decline from 13.5 million people going through the turnstiles to just 8.7 million in 8 years 

Cant find the figures for the other divisions but that was the trend, it was a massive decline in Interest across all clubs at all levels 

As a club Bolton was sheltered from this decline from 1976/77 through to 1979/80 because we were defying the wider trend and were a club on the rise , therefore when the fall did come , as it did with relegation in 1980 it was as though we had fallen off a cliff  

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41 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

Attendances generally fell markedly at this time 

Just a quick example - in  1976/77 the average attendance in just the top division was 29,400. It declined in each successive season to 1983/84 when it was just 18,851 thats a decline from 13.5 million people going through the turnstiles to just 8.7 million in 8 years 

Cant find the figures for the other divisions but that was the trend, it was a massive decline in Interest across all clubs at all levels 

As a club Bolton was sheltered from this decline from 1976/77 through to 1979/80 because we were defying the wider trend and were a club on the rise , therefore when the fall did come , as it did with relegation in 1980 it was as though we had fallen off a cliff  

That's all accurate as far as I'm concerned. We may have exacerbated it by getting the chequebook out after getting relegated. But it was a bad time to hit the skids. 

The reasons behind that decline are oft debated. Hooliganism was an obvious one - it wasn't an environment for mums and kids. Amazing I was being taken at the age of 5 from the mid-70s really. But it was probably also a sign that people in those days didn't have a huge amount of expendable income. Perhaps also even a small element of how poor the England team had been by not qualifying for a thing from 1970-80. Nothing to attract new fans in the way Italia 90 undoubtedly did and perhaps Spain 82 and Mexico 86 to a lesser degree.

In Bolton I'd also say a lot of people had become weary from 1964-74 or thereabouts. When the team began to rise they gave the club once last chance. Once it all went pear shaped that was it - there was no going back for them. That was certainly the case with both my grandfathers. One of whom was really very bitter towards BWFC by the time the 80s had arrived.

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5 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

I was at Uni 1980-83 and had to pick my games , best London following I can recall in that era was an FA cup match at Crystal Palace when we had maybe 800 on 

One thing that sticks in my mind with that game was the banter - we were put ,  as they did at Palace in those days , in a corner quadrant on the open terracing separated by fencing from the Palace fans .

When we started singing , there was a lot of Saarf London accents shouting randomly over the fence  "You Waat " ... " You Waat" 

As the game went on it evolved into Bolton fans mimicking the Palace fans and shouting back "you what" and  throwing the odd "Eh" in every time the Palace fans sang 

Am sure that afternoons banter  led to the origin of that  famous terrace classic of the 80s " You what You What You What You What You What  Eh " 

I was at that one, think it was 81/82 and remember that chant clearly. Went on the travel club coach, recall us stopping at Watford Gap and some Leeds fronted some of ours, think they were at Spurs that day.

Pretty sure a coach went from the Albion and ended up in their side terrace next to our end.

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On 03/04/2020 at 17:58, paulhanley said:

Prompted to start this thread as a result of some conversations on others. Obviously a topic for those of a certain vintage and it's the time to do it while there's nothing current to discuss! 

The three difficult seasons at the very start of the 80s are often overlooked being as they are between the Ian Greaves era and the decade long spell in the lower divisions from 83-93. What are people's memories?

It was a time of financial crisis, rapidly dwindling crowds across football and a Burnden Park managerial merry-go-round that accounted for Stan Anderson and George Mulhall before John McGovern arrived (it could have been Pele!)

It all started in August 1980 with an underwhelming 2-1 defeat at Notts County, welcome back to Div 2! And it ended with the infamous 4-1 defeat at Charlton on May 15, 1983. The much maligned Ian Moores scored for us part way through the second half in a game we had to win. .... but we conceded four quick goals and the relegation trap-door opened.

A few from me - restricted to games I've not heard discussed much: 

1980/81

Aug 23 and our first win of the season in the third game, against a poor Newcastle side - a 4-0 thumping with a hat trick for our new signing Brian Kidd. We'd spent daft money on someone with no re-sale value, but for the short term his experience was very handy. When the 4th went in the Geordies walked out en masse in disgust before the end of the game. By their current standards it was a paltry following for them. Dennis Peacock, our new cock up prone goalie, was between the sticks.

April 20: Bolton 1 Wrexham 1. Twelve months before we were in the top flight. Now we were scrapping for our lives to survive in Div 2. The third last game of the season was at home to Wrexham with only 6100 at a nervy Burnden. We'd gone 0-1 down and were missing chances galore. A penalty brought hope - but Paul Jones missed it. The ref clearly liked us because in the last minute there was another penalty awarded. Brian Kidd tucked it away and week later we got a point at Orient to ensure safety. 

1981/82

September 5: Bolton 1 Luton 2: The first home game of a new season with George Mulhall as the gaffer.  We'd lost at Chelsea a week earlier. A sunny day at Burnden saw us take a second half lead through Alan Gowling. However this was David Pleat's Luton who would be crowned champions in May. They blitzed us with the likes of Ricky Hill and Brian Stein in their ranks, 1-2 flattered us. I have a memory of tannoy man repeatedly playing "Tainted Love" by Soft Cell at this game! By 11 games in to the season we'd won 2 drawn 0 lost 9. 

April 12: Blackburn 0 Bolton 2: mid-table safety for our banjo playing friends but Bolton were scrapping for safety for the second year running. Despite poor recent form and a shocking away record we won 2-0 at the old Ewood with Chris Thompson scoring both before he eventually signed for our rivals. There were battles in and around the ground as well! 

1982/83

November 6: Bolton 1 Shrewsbury 4: A pathetic performance as a poor start to the season deteriorated further. New boss John McGovern dropped half the side for the next game and a woman sat near me in the Manny Road stand spent the entire second half reading a book. Tony Henry's pen was scant consolation. 

December 11: Bolton 4 Charlton 1: Only 5645 in attendance but over Christmas and New Year we had our one good run of this relegation season. Part of that was this convincing win which was achieved despite the appearance of world class player and Danish international Allan Simonsen in Charlton's ranks. Neil Whatmore scored two in one of his periodic loan returns to Burnden. 

Give us some memories folks!!

 

 

 

 

I remember most of those clearly.  The Wrexham game was a bank holiday Monday (remember when we were allowed to play bank hols?) and there was no sense whatsoever of it being an "important" relegation game, we were just meandering along, I remember the thrill of us scoring a last minute pen but it never felt like we might go down.  Despite only winning 1 of our last 7 we were 2 points plus huge goal difference above relegation.  I hadnt realised till I just checked what an impact we had on the fortunes of our local rivals.  Drew 0-0 at Blackburn the game before Wrexham which stopped them going up!  They only missed out on goal difference to Swansea, if we'd lost at Ewood that famous Swansea era in early 80s may have been replaced by Howard Kendal's Blackburn!  And we won at PNE a few games earlier, and they went down on goal difference!  All that passed me by at the time, but they spent about 20 years trying to get back upto the 2nd tier.

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6 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I remember most of those clearly.  The Wrexham game was a bank holiday Monday (remember when we were allowed to play bank hols?) and there was no sense whatsoever of it being an "important" relegation game, we were just meandering along, I remember the thrill of us scoring a last minute pen but it never felt like we might go down.  Despite only winning 1 of our last 7 we were 2 points plus huge goal difference above relegation.  I hadnt realised till I just checked what an impact we had on the fortunes of our local rivals.  Drew 0-0 at Blackburn the game before Wrexham which stopped them going up!  They only missed out on goal difference to Swansea, if we'd lost at Ewood that famous Swansea era in early 80s may have been replaced by Howard Kendal's Blackburn!  And we won at PNE a few games earlier, and they went down on goal difference!  All that passed me by at the time, but they spent about 20 years trying to get back upto the 2nd tier.

That would have been a real battling draw at Ewood because that side of Kendal's was a good one. Simon Garner up front I guess. We did the double over PNE back in the days when we always seemed to get the better of them.

I hadn't realised that Wrexham game was a Bank Holiday. I have a recollection of it being a sunny warm day and the following from North Wales only being a scattering of fans on that third of the Embankment nearest the Burnden Paddock. 

It was certainly the next game against Orient when we made ourselves mathematically safe. I have a memory of that game being on a Sunday but my mind might be playing tricks there. Then we got hammered 0-3 at home by Luton in our final game. Our first home game the following season in 81/2 with George Mulhall now in charge was also Luton .... lost that one too.

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That 4-0 v Newcastle (Kidd hat-trick) - I had been away with parents that week (to the North East coincidentally) and we were travelling back, I was dropped outside Burnden bang on 3pm.  It was the first time I'd ever gone to a game on my own (aged 13), and keen to get in the ground I just paid at the first turnstyle I saw, near the Happy Shop.  I ended up on the corner of the Embankment which is the "away" end, but for that game they had put BW fans in there and Newcastle had the bigger "home" end.  It felt absolutely packed and was the only time I ever watched a game in that corner.  The game was televised, highlights on ITV the day after.

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51 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

The year when Wrexham went down was the year that 3pts had been introduced for a win.  Had it still been 2pts, we'd have gone down instead of them.

2-2 draw at Orient was on a Sunday, I'm almost sure of it.

I think it was a lunchtime kick off too. God knows why. Very unusual in those days!

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46 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

That 4-0 v Newcastle (Kidd hat-trick) - I had been away with parents that week (to the North East coincidentally) and we were travelling back, I was dropped outside Burnden bang on 3pm.  It was the first time I'd ever gone to a game on my own (aged 13), and keen to get in the ground I just paid at the first turnstyle I saw, near the Happy Shop.  I ended up on the corner of the Embankment which is the "away" end, but for that game they had put BW fans in there and Newcastle had the bigger "home" end.  It felt absolutely packed and was the only time I ever watched a game in that corner.  The game was televised, highlights on ITV the day after.

Do you have any recollection of their fans walking out as a group after our fourth? It's my main memory of that day.

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38 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Do you have any recollection of their fans walking out as a group after our fourth? It's my main memory of that day.

I remember that vividly Paul, they'd had enough....but would be back.

Having said that, the following year was a midnwdek match played in the middle of a downpour,  we beat them 1-0, probably only 6k on with hardly any Geordies present. The following year would be different.

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1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

I remember that vividly Paul, they'd had enough....but would be back.

Having said that, the following year was a midnwdek match played in the middle of a downpour,  we beat them 1-0, probably only 6k on with hardly any Geordies present. The following year would be different.

We won all three of those home games v the barcodes in those Div 2 years! 

I'm glad someone else remembers the walkout and it's not my memory playing tricks. From memory it was a reasonable rather than huge following - maybe 2000.  Although as Johnnyrotten said they'd put them on the home section of the Embankment nearest the Manny Road. Which they also did in 82/3.....! 

 

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17 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

We won all three of those home games v the barcodes in those Div 2 years! 

I'm glad someone else remembers the walkout and it's not my memory playing tricks. From memory it was a reasonable rather than huge following - maybe 2000.  Although as Johnnyrotten said they'd put them on the home section of the Embankment nearest the Manny Road. Which they also did in 82/3.....! 

 

The attendances for the 3 Newcastle matches

1980/81 w 4-0   att 11,835

1981/82  w1-0  att 6,429

1982/83 w3-1  att 17,738

Edited by dusan nikolic
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4 minutes ago, dusan nikolic said:

The attendances for the 3 Newcastle matches

1980/81 w 4-0   att 11,835

1981/82  w1-0  att 6,429

1982/83 w3-1  att 17,738

The attendance for the 82/83 season was the biggest ever tax fiddle at Burnden.

They brought at least 10k down,  the Paddock was rammed, same with the Manny Road and most stands were reasonably well filled like my Armani thong.

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1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

The attendance for the 82/83 season was the biggest ever tax fiddle at Burnden.

They brought at least 10k down,  the Paddock was rammed, same with the Manny Road and most stands were reasonably well filled like my Armani thong.

Was this the season Keegan joined them?

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