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Pie Eaters go into Administration


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2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

I can't believe the amount on here who are celebrating another team's demise. It could easily have been us. Accusing Wigan of being small time and irrelevant whilst we are currently bottom of L2. Glass houses and all that.

Stop trying to be nice, fuck em!

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The EFL should issue a statement to say: "We deny Wigan Athletic permission to start the season. What is more we acknowledge and apologise for the mistake of our predecessors in opening the door to th

Wigan can’t say , founder members ,they can’t say first ever goal scored, they can’t say first ever Wembley winners ,with a record crowd ,famous white horse final to boot . They can’t say top flight f

Turns out they owe £3.1415926535

31 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

Not sure how credible this article is ( printed below ) 

http://d3d4football.com/wigan-turn-down-second-bid-from-former-port-vale-owner/

If anybody on here subscribes to The Athletic from which it supposedly quotes  perhaps they can confirm it ?

 

 

 

The administrators at Wigan Athletic have turned down a second bid from former Port Vale owner Norman Smurthwaite, according to reports.

The League One outfit are up for sale with several interested parties reported last week, but the latest offer from the ex-Vale owner has been turned down.

Smurthwaite originally submitted a bid of £3.3 million for the Latics – £700,000 lower than what the administrators were asking. He cited a fire sale of assets as the reason behind his reduced offer. 19 players have been sold as well as one of Wigan’s two training grounds.

This original offer was rejected but, according to The Athletic, he has now returned with another, this time of £3 million which is £300,000 lower than his first bid and £1 million short of the asking price.

This has also been turned down by Gerald Krasner, signalling their hope that a bid matching the £4 million price tag will be forthcoming.

The fans have raised an impressive £670,000 to aid the club in this difficult time but Ian Lenagan, the owner of rugby league Wigan Warriors and co-tenants at the DW, remains the supporter’s choice to lead a local rescue.

The big question is whether he can guarantee the EFL that he is able to fund the club for two years, something the governing body wants to see before sanctioning a deal.

I don't know if the article's genuine or not, but I do know that Lenaghan isn't the supporters' choice.

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12 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Well indeed and a fan since the seventies.  Some on here cannot handle a different opinion.  

I see what you're saying, but I just want them to go the same way Bury did.

Not die altogether, just have to play Orrell Albion forever

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16 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Well indeed and a fan since the seventies.  Some on here cannot handle a different opinion.  

Ok sorry for the insult no need . I have never met another Bolton fan who compared us to Stockport and Rochdale though.

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2 minutes ago, snowball said:

Ok sorry for the insult no need . I have never met another Bolton fan who compared us to Stockport and Rochdale though.

👍No worries. 

Of course we are bigger than Rochdale, Oldham and Stockport but right now we are in the same boat financially and all suffer the same geographical challenge. 

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56 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I don't know if the article's genuine or not, but I do know that Lenaghan isn't the supporters' choice.

Think they are running out of options now though ..

In another twist the admins have  put this statement out - I genuinely have my doubts as to whether we would have survived had these admins handled our sale - its a complete farce  

 

 

By @Begbies

“In view of the obvious frustration by a number of fans and other interested parties regarding certain recent events at the club we wish to make the following statement and confirm certain facts.

On Sunday 13 September, social media was inundated with news that the French-Americans had made a final bid of £2 million. Despite being in constant communication with the French-Americans, no such bid was received that day. What it did do however was panic some of the very interested buyers and we spent most of Sunday afternoon on the phone with them. As a result of all the adverse publicity this generated, we can advise that one of the principal bidders backed out Monday morning and they were due that day to deposit £4 million with their lawyers on the basis of anonymity at this stage. They said that the publicity had put them off and their bid was withdrawn. It also led to other parties (who were not in the front running for bids) to make similar offers, one of which was as low as £1.5 million for all of the assets. We did in fact receive a bid of £2 million from the French-Americans as predicted on Friday 18 September at 16:25pm. What was not disclosed with this bid on social media however was the strings attached to it – namely that we had to pay the £1.3 million to creditors to avoid the 15-point penalty. This was not feasible under English law as detailed below and we went back within the hour at 17:19pm to inform them that their bid had been rejected and the reasons why. If they want to rethink the bid and remove the clause where we have to pay the £1.3 million then that will be seriously looked at by the Joint Administrators.

Amazingly, within 17 minutes of us sending the email rejecting the bid with reasons these details appeared on social media. We have put in writing to them that this is a complete breach of their NDA and it is for this reason after taking advice that we are going public with the reasons for turning the bid down. Under English law, before we could pay anything to the creditors we must clear the expenses of the Administration. Fans will appreciate that no income has been received and no season ticket sales have taken place. We have therefore had to pay June, July and August wages out of the player sales and these amounts included wage deferrals from early in the season plus a month’s salary at Championship rates to all players who left. As a result of this there is a considerable liability to HMRC for PAYE on wages plus the VAT on player sales. Taken together with the costs of the appeal, the loss in Administration is over £3 million which has to be paid before any dividend can be paid to the unsecured creditors. That becomes an impossibility when the actual offer is only £2 million. As we have said in the above paragraph, if this bid is remade it will be given very serious consideration.

Questions have also been raised why the asking price is still £4 million and the above is the principal reason why. Prior to the sale of the Euxton training ground the asking price was in the region of £6 million but we told all bidders they could have a £2 million discount if they preferred not to buy that training ground as part of the package and the Joint Administrators would conclude a separate sale.

Another question raised is to why we have sold so many players. The reason is that the players wage bill was over £12 million whereas for a League One club there is a wage cap £10 million lower. It was therefore necessary to offload the bulk of valuable players to reach this target and have a club that could still operate efficiently within League One. We should also point out that a number of players did not want to play in League One with the lower wage bill and requested a transfer.

Questions have also been raised about the sale of the training ground and whether it has been used to pay our fees. We will point out that this asset is in a separate limited company and the money to buy it was supplied directly from Hong Kong and not the football club. The answer to this is that since day one we have drawn no monies for any fees and have funded disbursements out of our own pocket. Apart from the legal fees for the appeal, no fees will be charged by the Joint Administrators or their lawyers to the football club. We continue to still discuss at a serious level with at least 3 bidders an offer that would allow us to do all of the above including payment of the 25p. Contracts have been sent out to the most interested parties and once one party signs the contract we shall let you know as soon as practically possible. We would also advise all fans that if they have questions to send them to Barry Worthington (barry@wiganathleticsupportersclub.co.uk) who has a phone call with us every week.”

 

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6 hours ago, Spider said:

I see what you're saying, but I just want them to go the same way Bury did.

Not die altogether, just have to play Orrell Albion forever

"boltons going bust" , id rather bury won the prem than those fuckers finish the month. 

maybe it were only because they (bury) were in the same boat as us as the same time that they didnt have time to gloat. but i still think id rather see that ^ after all the shit the deereaters did last year. 

 

 

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Nobody but Nobody is buying a football club this year. Jesus christ you would not have one for free.

No income only  outgoings for the foreseeable future. Wigan like many are finished in there present form

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Saw this on Latin’s speyk and took a look at wiki for more info.

quote Latin’s speyk-  So with our average gate being over 10,000 for last 10-15 years how would that work?

It was in answer to someone pointing to Fleetwood’s 3 or 4k average. He seems quite proud of his club’s massive attendances. 
 

Small time, 

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For those who are still following this soap opera below is the latest Question and Answer session between Gerald Krasner of the Amins and a Supporters club representative

Last 3 lines are the relevant ones for those that dont want to read the detail 

Gerald Krasner Pt 4

The fourth meeting with Gerald Krasner took place this evening, Tuesday 22/09/20. The telephone call lasted 46 minutes.

Full range of questions asked, all that were emailed in, some stuff, not much to be fair, was off the record 

Callum Lang (question from week 3 that got missed) I needed to save the outflow of wages, the wages were really costing the club so we had to make some savings. 

League 1 & 2 Being Cancelled if the reported cancellation did come about it would create turmoil , but only the High Court could stop the administration process, I don’t see what cancelling the season would achieve really, you’re going to alienate millions of people who are fans, you’re not going to save certain costs that are there anyway, like rates, stadium costs and stuff - and it will be up to the Government, the Premier League and the EFL to come up with a package and the players would have to take reduced wages. 

 

So the administration process would carry on but under an even worse scenario. 

American Bid I tried to explain, in my statement why I turned down the American offer, the Americans have gone public on this more than once and it gives me the right to respond in public, unless we pay £3.3m  of administration expenses , we cannot pay the creditors 25p in the £ in law. 

If the Americans want to bring that bid back and would deal with the creditors themselves I’m telling you it would be seriously looked at. 

It’s come back to me, rightly or not, that the Americans were surprised that we rejected, they thought we’d make a counter offer, but we’ve laid out where we are and I have to meet a minimum standard, they got to waive in their offer the creditors position. They either up the bid by £1.3m or if they’re tied for cash on day one, the best thing to do is offer me is £2.7m and they pay the creditors £1.8m over three years, roughly, but that incurs a 15 point penalty. 

Bidders  Put Off Everybody has called me a liar on this, but I am an officer of the court and I cannot lie as I would be hauled before the courts, I had a bidder that I met, I had physically gone somewhere to meet, they are very rich, let’s just say that money was not the problem, they were going to bid just under £4m but were going to put £4m in their solicitors account, I spoke to their solicitor who said he’d got instructions that on Monday, he’d given his bank account details to them, he said to me that they had to have complete anonymity and this stage, until their bid was accepted by the EFL they were not going to go public. There was a very good reason for this which I cannot disclose. 

When Nixon put that article account, not only them but every other bidder was onto me “what’s this, your selling for £2 million”, now this wasn’t the fans fault but Nixon not phoning up checking a story. At that stage we’d had no bid from America for £2million. We didn’t get it for another four days, so how does he know it’s coming? 

These people (bidders) have got professionals monitoring the websites and social media to see what’s going on, Monday morning I got a phone call from their agent saying that they were having a rethink due to publicity and they never transferred the money. They’ve now gone and definitely not in the bidding and not coming back. 

You can imagine how I felt, they had the contract, they said if we put the money in can we have exclusivity, I said no because there are other contracts out but once the money is in they are ready to sign the contract. That was the leading bid of three at the time. 

His (Alan Nixon) job is to get a story, his responsibility is to check there is an element of truth in it, that’s what I’m saying. 

Finance/Debt  No we wouldn’t finish the season if no buyer came in, there are too many things that can effect it for me to give you a date, it’s not Christmas, it’s before Christmas in my opinion. 

What do we owe? We have written off £25m the best estimate is £5.2m at the moment, which is why 25p is £1.3m (which must be paid), now there are creditors in the other companies , but I don’t have to pay them anything at this moment but I may have to do after. 

Will we put a definitive amount owed on the website? No. The absolute cost depends on whether they are paying the creditors or not, this is explained in the discussion about the American bid previously. £4 million with the creditors paid by us, or £2.7 million and the new owners pay the creditors themselves. 

Euxton There is a tax problem with the Euxton sale, it is in the books at £650K everybody knows it cost more than that. Anything we sold it for over £650K we’ve got a tax bill to sort out on it. We have also got creditors on the other companies and yes half of the Euxton money, but not all of it, will be used for fees. It wasn’t sold for that reason , originally it would have gone back to the Cayman Islands that money, but the owners have waived it and said we will guarantee your fee, our property companies will pay them. None of our fees will go to the football club – and I keep saying this – the legal fees is for the appeal, no other professional fees for us or the lawyers will go to the Football Club. 

If we hadn’t done what we’d done and sold Euxton the Football Club still wouldn’t have seen the money because it would’ve gone to the Cayman Islands.  I’m not denying that some of that (Euxton) money will have to be used for our fees and lawyers fees. 

Peter Risdale I followed Risdale at Leeds United, he’s not a friend of mine despite what he says, he is a very smooth talker, but saying it (Euxton) is worth £10 million is for his own fans (PNE) consumption. 

Michael Danson (Wigan Warriors investor) hasn’t been approached by us. 

Streaming the games into the ground may have been possible up until today 

Dean Watson going to the Ipswich game, all necessary precautions always undertaken 

Transfer Fees The bidders see the individual transfer fees but not all being made public, though they will be totalled on report. 

Bad News If there ever is going to be bad news I won’t be putting it on the website I will come down face to face to give and to answer questions, that isn’t a plan, it isn’t, but I’m not going to run away and only come for good news. 

Fire Sale There hasn’t been a fire sale, we turned down bids for players. Let’s deal with this and the Add Ons. We came in on the 1st July knowing nothing, first thing we ask “have Junes wages been paid” no. So we’ve got 28 days to pay the wages otherwise the entire team could walk and then it’s not a fire sale it’s close the club. 

So what do we do, we sell immediately two youth players and doubled the original bids that have been received, one of them before we were appointed. Brighton had made the offer, we got double the money in the end. Forget the add-ons, then we sell Gelhardt to Leeds because we were coming up to July’s wages . 

The most important things were to get money to pay wages, the bill, including ground staff was in excess of £1m a month even after furlough monies were received. But there was the deferrals from March which had to be paid, and after the end of the season, everyone who was out of contract, or lefty, was entitled to an extra month’s salary at Championship rates. 

So we had to sell players to meet that commitment for the three months, now we’re in the middle of Covid no clubs are getting any income, including the Premier League, if we sold any player before the transfer window came in we couldn’t get the money to pay the wages unless we sold to a Premier League club. The only people who are going to pay reasonable money are Premier League and top half of the Championship. 

What we have done is refuse bid after bid to get what’s known as the add-ons, Gelhardt for example went for £800K but there are £1m of potential add-ons on that contract, the other players we’ve sold have add-ons worth up to £7m. 

Strictly that money will come to us as administrators what we have said is that we need the first £250K as a buffer and we will sell you the rest for £1. So any new owner going forward over the next five years can expect a steady stream of income all things being equal, you won’t get full amount but certainly £1m+. 

The buffer, we’ve had to make some assumptions of how much we need to pay everybody, the revenue haven’t put a claim in m  we think that there is some they haven’t claimed yet, so we have to make allowances here and there,  that’s the buffer. If we don’t spend that 250 we’ve told all the bidders “you’ll get it back”. 

The add-ons are appearances, sell ons etc. A lot of people don’t understand football insolvency and it needs explaining that this is a vital asset going to the new owners. 

Our fees aren’t negotiable, they are approved by creditors. Are our fees negotiable? I don’t think we are going to get all our fees, let’s put it that way. 

We did a deal with the owners on the basis that if it didn’t work out we could do a million pounds worth of work and not get paid a penny. Our fees are dependent on selling the club, if we don’t sell it we’re in trouble. 

Just to reiterate, debt is £5.2m @25p (£1.3m) owing and £3m is the revenue. Sale - £2.7m with them paying the creditors or £4m with admin paying the creditors. 

Conflicting Statements We have been accused of putting out conflicting statements, Paul Stanley was taken out of context in a telephone call with the Guardian newspaper, he was asked an innocuous question, he was explaining like Macclesfield and Bury what happens if we don’t sell the club, he’s not saying this is a Macclesfield, things are taken out of context, headlines do not mean what he said. 

Everyday we are talking to the bidders either by phone, email or via meetings, it’s a non-stop process, but as of today it hasn’t progressed to where someone is going to sign a contract.

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So far, the admins have only sold the Euxton training ground.

They agreed that their payment would come from the sale of....... Euxton Training ground.

roflllollycopter

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I've just been into the EE shop in the centre of Bolton and I put my BWFC face mask on as I entered. 

The guy who greeted me said  "Bolton Wanderers" with a slight edge, so I replied "well we are in the centre of Bolton". 

He then said "I'm a wigan fan". 

"Not for much longer" said I 😁

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