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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Equality in sport


Rudy

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5 minutes ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

What about your under the belt dig of English not being my first language; that was harsh - I am from Daubhill originally they knows

I apologise. I struggled to read your post because you didn't put quotation marks around the word "them", but I got it eventually.

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55 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Or dwarves. Or people with ginger hair. Or people with one arm. You clearly don't understand the arithmetic, or the point I was making, so what's yours? Do you think black men are more likely to carry knives purely because they're black?

Yes, if they stop and searched 100 women and only 10 men, the figures would be distorted. If they found 1 woman and 1 man carrying a knife, they could conclude that 10% of men carry knives, but only 1 % of women do.

Please try your best not to use the  🤷‍♂️ emoji.

Plenty of data here to go at if you want to look into it in a bit more detail...

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest
 

A black person in London is 10 times more likely to be stopped than a white person. 

Interestingly a Black African is only 5 times as likely to get stopped and searched in London when compared to the White group (so Black African get stopped and searched half as much as the average Black man). This disparity between Black African and overall Black data again indicates that skin colour isn’t the only factor behind the stop and search data. Perhaps the boroughs with African communities have less knife crime than other areas with large black communities 

I’d like to see them drill the data down further and weight it by age group. For every 1,000 black men we know 666 will be under 35 (key age group for crime). For every 1,000 white men only 333 will sit in the same age group (average age of a white man is +10 years on a Black man). If you agree that knife crime is much more likely in younger age groups then you’d expect the average 1000 Black men to get stopped and searched twice as much as the average white man based on the age demographics alone 

Indian British and Chinese British are as likely to get stopped and searched as a white person in London 

However overall the Met Police only carried out 

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4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I don't understand why you think that is a good statistic to keep referencing?

I didn’t say it was a good thing, just being honest 

However the fact that a Black African is only 5 times more likely tells us that skin colour isn’t the only factor in play (or Black African and total Black would surely be the same rate) 

If you look at the % of people actually caught with a knife in this country it’s adds further detail to the statistics...

https://fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/
 

66% of all knife offenders in London are non-white yet they only make up 40% of the population 

I think it’s clear that your more likely to be carrying a knife if your from the Black Community in London vs the White community and this drives the disparity in stop and searches. Similarly a male is much more likely to be stopped and searched than a female (also more likely to be carrying) 

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18 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I don't understand why you think that is a good statistic to keep referencing?

If A black man is more likely to use a knife in London then it’s a good reason for more black men to be stopped And searched more frequently. Same reason more white lads get a section 60 on match day as they’re more likely to be involved in football violence.  🤷🏻

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18 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I didn’t say it was a good thing, just being honest 

However the fact that a Black African is only 5 times more likely tells us that skin colour isn’t the only factor in play (or Black African and total Black would surely be the same rate) 

If you look at the % of people actually caught with a knife in this country it’s adds further detail to the statistics...

https://fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/
 

66% of all knife offenders in London are non-white yet they only make up 40% of the population 

I think it’s clear that your more likely to be carrying a knife if your from the Black Community in London vs the White community and this drives the disparity in stop and searches. Similarly a male is much more likely to be stopped and searched than a female (also more likely to be carrying) 

None of that explains the 10:1 ratio of stop and searches. I agree with you (and what the statistics show) that there is a problem among black youths in London. Gang culture innit? Do you think it is because they are black, or that there is something wrong with the way society is set up?

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4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

None of that explains the 10:1 ratio of stop and searches. I agree with you (and what the statistics show) that there is a problem among black youths in London. Gang culture innit? Do you think it is because they are black, or that there is something wrong with the way society is set up?

Not because they are Black as such, I do t think it’s genetic at all. If you picked up a young black kid and put him in a place like Lytham chances are it would be a very different story 

I think it’s cultural within those communities that are predominantly Black areas 

David Lammy is a big supporter of BLM and racial injustice but when you re look at the quote he made on the BBC piece I shared earlier...

Mr Lammy, whose own father walked out, said after regularly visiting Feltham Young Offenders Institute he found that most, if not all, offenders did not have access to their fathers.
He also suggested that most of the people involved in last year's London riots were from single parent homes.
 
i do think that the massive over index in absent fathers is having a hugely negative impact on that community. Which makes the official BLM position to ‘disrupt the western prescribed nuclear family’ even more baffling - for me anyway 
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9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

None of that explains the 10:1 ratio of stop and searches. I agree with you (and what the statistics show) that there is a problem among black youths in London. Gang culture innit? Do you think it is because they are black, or that there is something wrong with the way society is set up?

I think hes explained this pretty clearly.

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8 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I think hes explained this pretty clearly.

I don't think he has. We all know there is a problem among certain sections of the young black community in London. The root of the problem is the issue. Claiming "there isn't institutional racism in the UK, it's all their own fault" doesn't really solve anything. Maybe I'm missing something.

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3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Which makes the official BLM position to ‘disrupt the western prescribed nuclear family’ even more baffling - for me anyway 

Im not sure they mean tear it up, just a different approach

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/28/ask-politifact-does-black-lives-matter-aim-destroy/

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable," it says on the page titled "What we believe."

"It is a call to disrupt the notion that the nuclear family structure is the only way to ensure neighborhood stability and vitality, and to affirm that neighborhoods that contain a high volume of non-traditional family structures (e.g. households with a single parent or grandparents / other familial figures as primary caregivers for kids) are just as capable of — and just as deserving of — policies and practices that contribute to neighborhood stability and vitality"

Also interesting that

A) that what we believe page has been taken off the US BLM site

B) the UK BLM site says they are nowt to do with US BLM

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6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I don't think he has. We all know there is a problem among certain sections of the young black community in London. The root of the problem is the issue. Claiming "there isn't institutional racism in the UK, it's all their own fault" doesn't really solve anything. Maybe I'm missing something.

So if you, yourself are on the beat in downtown brixton, and as youve just said, theres a huge problem with black gangs carrying knives in that area, who do are you most likely to pick for a stop and search?

A black teenager or a white one?

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13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Wonder what the figures are like for stop and search in liverpool where knife crime is also a problem...

Just had a look, much less disparity based on race

https://www.stop-watch.org/your-area/area/merseyside

Merseyside Police record stop and accounts.

Merseyside is one of only nine police forces in England and Wales that record stop and accounts.

In 2013/14, a total of 2,047 recorded stop and accounts where carried out across the force. Of these:

  • 1,868 were of whites
  • 34 were of blacks
  • 21 were of Asians
  • 22 were of people from mixed backgrounds
  • 56 were of Chinese people or those from other backgrounds

This means that black people were subject to an account at 1.6 times the rate of whites, Asians at 0.8 times that rate, mixed people at 0.7times the rate of whites, and those from Chinese or Other backgrounds were encountered at 1.8 times the rate of whites.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/single-mums-streets-shocking-number-16629608
 

Interesting that single parent families in Liverpool are circa 30% 

I think the predominant factor in stop and searches is the prevalence of single parent families, not colour of skin 

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9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I don't think he has. We all know there is a problem among certain sections of the young black community in London. The root of the problem is the issue. Claiming "there isn't institutional racism in the UK, it's all their own fault" doesn't really solve anything. Maybe I'm missing something.

Wouldn’t be the first time 

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Just now, gonzo said:

So if you, yourself are on the beat in downtown brixton, and as youve just said, theres a huge problem with black gangs carrying knives in that area, who do are you most likely to pick for a stop and search?

A black teenager or a white one?

Whichever one I encountered first.

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6 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

Im not sure they mean tear it up, just a different approach

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/28/ask-politifact-does-black-lives-matter-aim-destroy/

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable," it says on the page titled "What we believe."

"It is a call to disrupt the notion that the nuclear family structure is the only way to ensure neighborhood stability and vitality, and to affirm that neighborhoods that contain a high volume of non-traditional family structures (e.g. households with a single parent or grandparents / other familial figures as primary caregivers for kids) are just as capable of — and just as deserving of — policies and practices that contribute to neighborhood stability and vitality"

Also interesting that

A) that what we believe page has been taken off the US BLM site

B) the UK BLM site says they are nowt to do with US BLM

Would be very interested to know what UK BLM think about the impact of absent fathers then 

In terms of the US arm of BLM they are in stark contrast to Barak Obama’s opinion then. He’s probably best placed to give commentary having been a young black American with a missing father AND being the man in charge of ‘the system’ 

link again if anyone missed it...

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html

 

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3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Just had a look, much less disparity based on race

https://www.stop-watch.org/your-area/area/merseyside

Merseyside Police record stop and accounts.

Merseyside is one of only nine police forces in England and Wales that record stop and accounts.

In 2013/14, a total of 2,047 recorded stop and accounts where carried out across the force. Of these:

  • 1,868 were of whites
  • 34 were of blacks
  • 21 were of Asians
  • 22 were of people from mixed backgrounds
  • 56 were of Chinese people or those from other backgrounds

This means that black people were subject to an account at 1.6 times the rate of whites, Asians at 0.8 times that rate, mixed people at 0.7times the rate of whites, and those from Chinese or Other backgrounds were encountered at 1.8 times the rate of whites.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/single-mums-streets-shocking-number-16629608
 

Interesting that single parent families in Liverpool are circa 30% 

I think the predominant factor in stop and searches is the prevalence of single parent families, not colour of skin 

So in areas where knife crime is committed predominantly by black youths, black youths are more likely to get stopped and searched, but in areas where white youths are predominantly committing the crimes, its the white youths that are more than likely to be searched?

Well stone me, whod ave thunked it :D

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