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1 hour ago, Traf said:

Eoin Doyle...bang average. Discuss.

Freak purple patch at Swindon in a good attacking side aside, he's a 1-in-4 goalscorer since 2015.

Ive not seen him elsewhere, so all the evidence I have suggests he's a 1 in 6 man.

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IE is absolutely spot on. Hes still got my full support and fwiw I’m confident that he will sort it. some of u lot thought it was gonna be a cake walk this season. So do some of our pla

They are easy, negative observations that anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would struggle to disagree with.  And of course you have the higher ground as you’ve got a whole host of poor

I hate playing Oldham. Never got over that Darren Beckford goal. Bogey team, going to curl up in the cupboard under the stairs and drink a 10 pack of Guinness (I will have a bucket)

4 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Ive not seen him elsewhere, so all the evidence I have suggests he's a 1 in 6 man.

Yeah but Vardy or Kane would only be marginally better if at all given what he’s had to go at

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5 hours ago, jules_darby said:

Whomever are the “culprits” doesn’t matter to me right now. The others are hardly firing on all cylinders

It’s reaction time Mr Evatt....let’s see what you’re made of!

I sincerely hope he learns and gets us there as I have an inkling that long term he could be our best Manager for over a decade if he does 

Genuine question - what do you base that on?  I am trying to see one part of the team I'm pleased with, not in terms of individuals as there are some reasonable players, but as units I can only see a poor central defence (due to lack of cover - Santos isolated), poor full backs (being asked to play a role they are clearly struggling with), weak midfield unit as everyone seems to agree, poor wing play whether its the "full backs" or the "wingers" in terms of getting crosses in, and failure to get 2 decent strikers involved enough.  The keeper situation is as weak it could ever be with an inexperienced, uncommanding No 1 and puzzlingly no sub on the bench.  Substitutions are generally strange or poor as most on here have commented.  And now he's brought to the table the undermining of the players individually and collectively which we thought he would be above. We all want him to succeed, its just a struggle to see where the shoots of recovery are going to come from.

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5 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:


 


I think you’re right about those you’ve named Johnny, all a bit lightweight but what about trying Kioso in there in more of a Politic role runn8ng at defenders, or maybe Santos in more of a Campo role, he’s big, strong and can see a pass. Both Darcy and Hickman can play wide right until Jones is fit. We also have Gnouhea who can play midfield and stiffen things up a bit. For me both Sarcevic and Comley should be dropped, Sarcevic until he gets fit and loses weight and Comley until he learns how to pass forward quickly instead of slowing everything down. There are options to try but it depends on whether Evatt sees them or is prepared to drop his favourites.

For all Kioso's qualities - great positive attitiude etc - I dont see him in that role, I dont think he has a trick or the subtlety for threading passes through, I could be wrong, need to see more of him.  I would have Darcy there though, his drive and willingness to make things happen makes up for not being the most skillful.  I'd love Politic to play there in future. I'm not seeing Sarcevic getting dropped any time soon, with IEs comments about weak characters, the strong characters (and captain) are safe for now.

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20 from 34 with Sligo Rovers

21 from 26 with Carlisle United

14 from 30 with Oldham Athletic

26 from 28 with Swindon Town

That tells me he'll score goals if the team plays to his strength and he's given service.

If the team doesn't and he isn't, he's a wadte of a shirt.

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3 hours ago, Traf said:

Eoin Doyle...bang average. Discuss.

Freak purple patch at Swindon in a good attacking side aside, he's a 1-in-4 goalscorer since 2015.

 

2 hours ago, BOWTUN BAKED said:

Strikers need service, end of discussion 

Particularly this one it seems. Cool finish against Harrogate, but barely a sniff.

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2 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Genuine question - what do you base that on?  I am trying to see one part of the team I'm pleased with, not in terms of individuals as there are some reasonable players, but as units I can only see a poor central defence (due to lack of cover - Santos isolated), poor full backs (being asked to play a role they are clearly struggling with), weak midfield unit as everyone seems to agree, poor wing play whether its the "full backs" or the "wingers" in terms of getting crosses in, and failure to get 2 decent strikers involved enough.  The keeper situation is as weak it could ever be with an inexperienced, uncommanding No 1 and puzzlingly no sub on the bench.  Substitutions are generally strange or poor as most on here have commented.  And now he's brought to the table the undermining of the players individually and collectively which we thought he would be above. We all want him to succeed, its just a struggle to see where the shoots of recovery are going to come from.

They are easy, negative observations that anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would struggle to disagree with. 

And of course you have the higher ground as you’ve got a whole host of poor results to back you up.

Trying to be positive (realistic) is difficult and without any (few) results to back it up leaves you with the danger of sounding deluded - I’ll try not to.

1/ This needs time - more half of us were giving him till at least the end of October, some more.

2/ With the above comes a whole host of complexity about getting all those negatives you highlight sorted; individuals, formations, tactics, combinations.

3/ Shoots of positivity? Difficult... but here goes... Santos improving, Delaney looking good, Brockbanks delivery impressive, signs of the defensive unit playing well together, occasional WB play which looks promising, when chances are created the front 2 look good, despite the midfield looking disjointed, the players look comfortable on the ball.

4/ IE is being honest, he’s not talking bull shit, he’s identified the same problems we are seeing. He’s not deluded, he’s not talking in riddles, he’s not afraid to change the formation, he’s gone through a top to bottom recruitment process and has given bwfc a squad with players for every position, he’s not made any excuses.  He’s talked about results mattering and is willing to substitute style for substance if need be (Harrogate) He is seeing these players everyday and working tirelessly to address this.

5/ So if point 4 has its merits, then you can see why @jules_darby@Casino and myself see why there may be potential and given time he could turn this around and be a good un

6/Accepting that the coaches know more than you and for all those issues you raise, they are the ones to see the problems and sort them out

7/ Have some faith

Edited by desperado
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9 hours ago, Ani said:

The manager can point as many fingers as he wants but the set up and style of play is awful. 
 

The keeper plays the ball to one of back three, who tippy tap between themselves till pressed then either pass to keeper who hits it long. (We have the back 5 deep from tippy tapping plus the keeper so we have 6 players out of the game - we win fuck all ball) or it goes to full backs (Gordon kept trying to play balls to midfield players centrally but they immediately closed down so nothing comes of it - we give the ball away cheaply. Comely can not pass straight it seems. Sauce plays higher up and Crawford tries little flicks that normally lose the ball. 

We also win virtually no second ball or even compete for it. The goal is a prime example we have no one in edge of the box. The guys goes length of the pitch unchallenged. 
 

His subs are bizarre changing full backs seems to happen every game. Delfonso into the ‘number 10’ role. Why have Darcy on the bench but never use him ? No keeper on the bench is fucking stupid and will bite us at some point. 
 

He has found a system that has turned last years divisional top scorer into a nobody. 
 

I get he was angry Saturday but another performance like that playing the same way and he can fuck off. 

You've nailed it for me Ani. The lack of goalkeeping cover on the bench is reckless when you can have so many subs. 

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the number of times you need a sub goalie is very low

I would however have one as we dont seem to have any intention of using other than a centre mid and 2 wing backs

You may expect iles to ask about the thinking

I say you may, as i dont, cos  i have him as a thick twat with no clue

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as for doyle, fuck knows what he was doing with that one he took first time 20 yards out

Hes either totally devoid of confidence or absolutely full of it...

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2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

20 from 34 with Sligo Rovers

21 from 26 with Carlisle United

14 from 30 with Oldham Athletic

26 from 28 with Swindon Town

That tells me he'll score goals if the team plays to his strength and he's given service.

If the team doesn't and he isn't, he's a wadte of a shirt.

As if to prove the point He even had a spell back at Bradford in January in between his spells at Swindon where he got 0 in 6, so they let him go back, where he carried on scoring

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2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

20 from 34 with Sligo Rovers

21 from 26 with Carlisle United

14 from 30 with Oldham Athletic

26 from 28 with Swindon Town

That tells me he'll score goals if the team plays to his strength and he's given service.

If the team doesn't and he isn't, he's a wadte of a shirt.

With stats like that, the worst being 1 in 2 he’s obviously a goal scorer. I wonder if they ask him during training where he wants the ball; to feet, to head, etc. 

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20 minutes ago, MickyD said:

With stats like that, the worst being 1 in 2 he’s obviously a goal scorer. I wonder if they ask him during training where he wants the ball; to feet, to head, etc. 

60 yard hoof please, to a 6'4" defender who's got his arms around me. 

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1 hour ago, desperado said:

They are easy, negative observations that anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would struggle to disagree with. 

And of course you have the higher ground as you’ve got a whole host of poor results to back you up.

Trying to be positive (realistic) is difficult and without any (few) results to back it up leaves you with the danger of sounding deluded - I’ll try not to.

1/ This needs time - more half of us were giving him till at least the end of October, some more.

2/ With the above comes a whole host of complexity about getting all those negatives you highlight sorted; individuals, formations, tactics, combinations.

3/ Shoots of positivity? Difficult... but here goes... Santos improving, Delaney looking good, Brockbanks delivery impressive, signs of the defensive unit playing well together, occasional WB play which looks promising, when chances are created the front 2 look good, despite the midfield looking disjointed, the players look comfortable on the ball.

4/ IE is being honest, he’s not talking bull shit, he’s identified the same problems we are seeing. He’s not deluded, he’s not talking in riddles, he’s not afraid to change the formation, he’s gone through a top to bottom recruitment process and has given bwfc a squad with players for every position, he’s not made any excuses.  He’s talked about results mattering and is willing to substitute style for substance if need be (Harrogate) He is seeing these players everyday and working tirelessly to address this.

5/ So if point 4 has its merits, then you can see why @jules_darby@Casino and myself see why there may be potential and given time he could turn this around and be a good un

6/Accepting that the coaches know more than you and for all those issues you raise, they are the ones to see the problems and sort them out

7/ Have some faith

Fair points.  Time - cant argue with that - I'm only commenting on what I've seen so far, just looking for the reasons we might think he's going to be a good 'un, just saying I've not seen it yet, that's not to say he wont turn out to be the new Rioch or Big Sam. 

Yes Santos, Delaney are clearly decent players - as I said we do have some quality, but a good manager needs to maximise his resources and I don't see that yet, with the emphasis on yet.  I still say like I did after half a game that 3 at the back wont work with the 11 he's starting with so far - it seems to weaken both attack and defence - but I'd love to be wrong, I just want to see us win games, I don't care if its 7 at the back if it works

These are just my opinions irrespective of IE, or Sammy Lee, or Keith Hill or Coyle knowing more about coaching and systems than us fans will ever know. One area I do sympathise is that Doyle should have scored at least 1 at home this season, probably 1 in each game, which would have painted a far rosier picture.  Loss of form cant be blamed on the manager, yet most of us wouldn't drop Doyle because he's proven.

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delfouneseo missed saturdays best chance

Doyle had the one i  mentioned above

Score those two and we get a flattering win, i reckon

I think they had more good chances than us

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9 minutes ago, Casino said:

delfouneseo missed saturdays best chance

Doyle had the one i  mentioned above

Score those two and we get a flattering win, i reckon

I think they had more good chances than us

I'll settle for a flattering win at the moment.

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8 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Fair points.  Time - cant argue with that - I'm only commenting on what I've seen so far, just looking for the reasons we might think he's going to be a good 'un, just saying I've not seen it yet, that's not to say he wont turn out to be the new Rioch or Big Sam. 

Yes Santos, Delaney are clearly decent players - as I said we do have some quality, but a good manager needs to maximise his resources and I don't see that yet, with the emphasis on yet.  I still say like I did after half a game that 3 at the back wont work with the 11 he's starting with so far - it seems to weaken both attack and defence - but I'd love to be wrong, I just want to see us win games, I don't care if its 7 at the back if it works

These are just my opinions irrespective of IE, or Sammy Lee, or Keith Hill or Coyle knowing more about coaching and systems than us fans will ever know. One area I do sympathise is that Doyle should have scored at least 1 at home this season, probably 1 in each game, which would have painted a far rosier picture.  Loss of form cant be blamed on the manager, yet most of us wouldn't drop Doyle because he's proven.

Fair come back too - a passionate fan wanting us to turn this around.

One sentence I’ll paste from above adding a key word:

but a good manager needs TIME to maximise his resources

Especially considering he only finalised his squad last week. Players like Kioso, Isgrove, Gnahoua probably weren’t even part of his thinking a few weeks ago.

I know I’ve got to be careful with this comparison on so many levels (different generation, quality of manager, one-off manager) but it took Ferguson 3 years to win his critics round!

Now no way am I suggesting 3 years! But on reflection this project, for all its complexity, needs more time than we all thought (new manger, new coaches, new team, new squad, tactics, ownership, recent historical failure, negativity embedded within the club/community the list goes on and on) And this is without the issues that every club is facing at the moment; high turnover of players, limited finance, salary cap, COVID-19, injuries etc etc.

Everybody is disappointed with the start - I’m just trying to remain positive and ensure the positives fall in line with the realistic position we find ourselves in.

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Noticed Evatt changed his tune about Oldham game in the pre-match press conference for Barrow.

Said we should've got something out of the game. Not sure how I feel about that.

Big moment for him now seeing how the team responds to the poor result. Can't see him abandoning his system/style anytime soon so we'll just have to endure the process no matter how painful and hope it clicks. If not then... let's not think about that.

 

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1 hour ago, Casino said:

delfouneseo missed saturdays best chance

Doyle had the one i  mentioned above

Score those two and we get a flattering win, i reckon

I think they had more good chances than us

Agreed Fonz was best chance that he should have buried, but he wasn't signed as a nailed on scorer, he has more to his game than Doyle.

We would have expected Doyle to stick away a couple of the chances he's had, in particular 1st game of season and that one v Oldham, I'm sure there's been 1 or 2 more that on a good day goes in the net.  

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2 hours ago, marple whites said:

Bottle of jam shed purchased on your recommendation for this weekends game !!

jam shed is meant to be chilled

19 crimes is ace , according to my mrs .

to me red wine is SHIT

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1 hour ago, victor meldrew said:

jam shed is meant to be chilled

19 crimes is ace , according to my mrs .

to me red wine is SHIT

Chilled or over ice

Surely that takes away flavour and aroma

Anyway its better than sauvignon, you big bender

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