Another youngster gone

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Duck Egg said:

Well its not quite as obvious as some of Brentfords successes but it's still turning a player that cost us nowt into 250k.  Small steps and all that.  Certainly preferable to them leaving on a free and pitching up at a championship or premier league club later on.

We're just having a good young player poached from us, as happens to many clubs lower down the leagues. I don't think it's a positive at all.

[masi 51]

If Finlay locket joins Regan Riley out the door you may as well shut the door  and give up. Have we not learned anything these last 50 odd fucking years.

I thought FV may have seen the bigger picture especially Michael James who i think as being a decent Business man is also a big fan.

Really is 250k and whatever we get for Regan and Locket bringing this club forward No its not in any way. Moneyball some have said what the fuck is that some American bollox.

Brentford i keep hearing are a moneyball team...No they are not ...They have/had a great scout who scouted in the French league for young quality players.

Well Mr Evatt a midfield of Lockett, Riley,Politic, Darcy will in 2/3 years time be as good as anything outside the Premier league

Throw Connell in and the mismanagement carries on

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Well Mr Evatt a midfield of Lockett, Riley,Politic, Darcy will in 2/3 years time be as good as anything outside the Premier league

 

I'm as annoyed as anyone, but steady on.

[desperado]

15 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

I thought FV may have seen the bigger picture especially Michael James who i think as being a decent Business man is also a big fan.

I would actually argue that the bigger picture is what’s happening here and now and what Michael James and FV are doing is using their their decent business experience to look after the clubs best interests. 

[Kane57]

17 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

If Finlay locket joins Regan Riley out the door you may as well shut the door  and give up. Have we not learned anything these last 50 odd fucking years.

I thought FV may have seen the bigger picture especially Michael James who i think as being a decent Business man is also a big fan.

Really is 250k and whatever we get for Regan and Locket bringing this club forward No its not in any way. Moneyball some have said what the fuck is that some American bollox.

Brentford i keep hearing are a moneyball team...No they are not ...They have/had a great scout who scouted in the French league for young quality players.

Well Mr Evatt a midfield of Lockett, Riley,Politic, Darcy will in 2/3 years time be as good as anything outside the Premier league

Throw Connell in and the mismanagement carries on

 

You might not think Brentford are a moneyball club, but they do

 

https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/moneyball-in-football-analysing-brentfords-recruitment-strategy-data-analysis-statistics

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/04/brentfords-focus-human-touch-belies-moneyball-reputation-tottenham-carabao-cup-semi-final

[Leyther_Matt]

£250k for a player who isn’t on a pro deal is probably judged a huge success FWIW

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

£250k for a player who isn’t on a pro deal is probably judged a huge success FWIW

I think the question to ask is why a club currently top of a league two divisions above ours is willing to spend a six figure sum on a just turned 18-year-old who isn't yet on a professional contract?

He's probably not a world beater, but it suggests they think he's got talent.

Only if we weren't planning to keep him is it good value.

[masi 51]

10 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

£250k for a player who isn’t on a pro deal is probably judged a huge success FWIW

There lies said problem....he is not on a pro deal

[masi 51]

19 minutes ago, Kane57 said:

You might not think Brentford are a moneyball club, but they do

 

https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/moneyball-in-football-analysing-brentfords-recruitment-strategy-data-analysis-statistics

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/04/brentfords-focus-human-touch-belies-moneyball-reputation-tottenham-carabao-cup-semi-final

They have made next to nothing on getting players from all around Europe bar france.

We did the same 20 years ago from Scandanavia................its not moneyball its good scouting

[Whitesince63]

Very disappointing whatever the circumstances. Losing potentially two of our brightest talents without even giving them an opportunity at the first team seems bad business given the promise they have both shown. Clearly Norwich and Wolves value them more highly than we do but either way, we must be skint if we can’t afford to keep them.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Blondi said:

Think I've only seen about half a game of Riley, but he impressed me when I saw him, 250K isn't to be sniffed at giving our current position, just hope we have a decent sell on clause if Norwich sell him on.

This is Bolton, we don't have the luck of a club selling on one of our ex players for a huge profit.  Norwich took Godfrey from York in 2016 and sold him to Everton for about £30mil so York got about £3mil.  Riley will probably play 500 games for Norwich and leave on a free in his 30s!  If it was Wigan they'd have got about £3mil for him.

[Benny The Ball]

8 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

There lies said problem....he is not on a pro deal

 

Under "normal" circumstances I would have expected Evatt on behalf of Football Ventures to be painting their vision of where the club is going over the next 3 -5 years, in  which he ( Evatt ) is supposedly delivering on the pitch and leading the club back towards the championship and convincing those youngsters that they have a future with the club and to stay . 

Now we all know that we are still under financial restrictions with the EFL , and we all know lockdown and Covid is impacting on BWFC / FV as it is on all other clubs and businesses and that we are not in a "normal" situation. 

The question we need to consider in my book is -  is this a purely financial decision for the benefit of the clubs short term cash flow ( ie we are skint as @whitesince63 has just suggested as I type this ) , which I think we are. Afterall what will £250k do ?  pay our running costs for between 1-2 months maximum ?  , and if we are skint what   happens when all the promising youngsters have been sold and there is nothing else to sell ?

Or is this our policy from now on - in which case why bother with an Academy at all. 

Throw into the mix the departure of Phoenix, Kioso returning to his parent club , the  downturn in results , questions being asked about Evatt's future and its clearly not a happy ship.

Maybe its time for Aunty Sharon to start telling us whats actually going on 

 

 

 

 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

Very disappointing whatever the circumstances. Losing potentially two of our brightest talents without even giving them an opportunity at the first team seems bad business given the promise they have both shown. Clearly Norwich and Wolves value them more highly than we do but either way, we must be skint if we can’t afford to keep them.

Agreed its disappointing Whites, but I cant agree that Norwich and Wolves value them more than we do.  They are spending loose change on a 10% chance that they will make it, if they dont they've lost the equivalent of a couple of week's wages for Traore or Neves.  Its like us signing Thomasson from Longridge, if we was no good nobody would have even noticed but it doesnt mean Longridge didnt value him.

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I think the question to ask is why a club currently top of a league two divisions above ours is willing to spend a six figure sum on a just turned 18-year-old who isn't yet on a professional contract?

He's probably not a world beater, but it suggests they think he's got talent.

Only if we weren't planning to keep him is it good value.

£250k is buttons to Norwich given they’ve only just come down from the Prem and look likely to go back up. Worth a chuck at that price, particularly if they think he will benefit from the more focused coaching and development he’ll get at that level.

From our point of view, players tend to have to be pretty exceptional to get a pro deal before they reach the end of their scholarship. And even then, if there’s any hint of other clubs sniffing around for a while as has been the case this time then it’s even harder to persuade them. 

[Traf]

Word has it that young Regan thought he was too good to train with the scholars and had attitude issues.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

17 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

£250k is buttons to Norwich given they’ve only just come down from the Prem and look likely to go back up. Worth a chuck at that price, particularly if they think he will benefit from the more focused coaching and development he’ll get at that level.

From our point of view, players tend to have to be pretty exceptional to get a pro deal before they reach the end of their scholarship. And even then, if there’s any hint of other clubs sniffing around for a while as has been the case this time then it’s even harder to persuade them. 

I suppose it's good business in the context of us not having any cards to play. It might be a relatively small outlay for them, but they aren't spending that kind of money on the likes of Sonny Graham.

Although understandable, I just think it's a shame.

[Biggish Dave]

8 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

 

Under "normal" circumstances I would have expected Evatt on behalf of Football Ventures to be painting their vision of where the club is going over the next 3 -5 years, in  which he ( Evatt ) is supposedly delivering on the pitch and leading the club back towards the championship and convincing those youngsters that they have a future with the club and to stay . 

Now we all know that we are still under financial restrictions with the EFL , and we all know lockdown and Covid is impacting on BWFC / FV as it is on all other clubs and businesses and that we are not in a "normal" situation. 

The question we need to consider in my book is -  is this a purely financial decision for the benefit of the clubs short term cash flow ( ie we are skint as @whitesince63 has just suggested as I type this ) , which I think we are. Afterall what will £250k do ?  pay our running costs for between 1-2 months maximum ?  , and if we are skint what   happens when all the promising youngsters have been sold and there is nothing else to sell ?

Or is this our policy from now on - in which case why bother with an Academy at all. 

Throw into the mix the departure of Phoenix, Kioso returning to his parent club , the  downturn in results , questions being asked about Evatt's future and its clearly not a happy ship.

Maybe its time for Aunty Sharon to start telling us whats actually going on 

 

 

 

 

We’re all guessing of course but my opinion is folk are make a story out of nothing.

Perhaps we have held preliminary talks with Riley, Lockett etc about signing pro forms but Riley has no intention of signing as a club with an excellent reputation for developing youngsters has come calling.

Kioso has gone to a higher placed club where he can travel to from home and Northampton can probably pay a loan fee and a higher percentage of his wage

TP is not a football man. No issues with him having gone.

Until it hits the news we’ve stopped paying our bills again, I’m not worried

[green genie]

9 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

This is Bolton, we don't have the luck of a club selling on one of our ex players for a huge profit.  Norwich took Godfrey from York in 2016 and sold him to Everton for about £30mil so York got about £3mil.  Riley will probably play 500 games for Norwich and leave on a free in his 30s!  If it was Wigan they'd have got about £3mil for him.

I'll raise you Dan Gosling. Went to Everton and we should have had 30% of profit when he moved to Newcastle,  but he screwed Toffees over on contract technicality to get a free transfer .

[Benny The Ball]

1 hour ago, Biggish Dave said:

We’re all guessing of course but my opinion is folk are make a story out of nothing.

Perhaps we have held preliminary talks with Riley, Lockett etc about signing pro forms but Riley has no intention of signing as a club with an excellent reputation for developing youngsters has come calling.

Kioso has gone to a higher placed club where he can travel to from home and Northampton can probably pay a loan fee and a higher percentage of his wage

TP is not a football man. No issues with him having gone.

Until it hits the news we’ve stopped paying our bills again, I’m not worried

Thats fair comment - and I take your point , and on TP I do actually agree 

I do think If the team  was performing on the pitch as we all hoped and we were at the right end of the league table these Individual events would quickly be forgotten and we would all move on 

But, at the moment we are too close to the wrong end of the division and as a consequence , I for one am  looking at the situation and seeing a series of unfortunate events , which may possibly be linked or maybe the timings are just pure co incidence , but when coupled with recent reference in the press ( Football Insider) to the financial situation at Bolton, I at any rate , am starting to wonder If there is more to it 

Hopefully though you are correct and there is nothing in it 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Benny The Ball

[Big E]

11 hours ago, masi 51 said:

There lies said problem....he is not on a pro deal

He is 18 and not playing in the first team. why would he have a pro deal ? 

honestly people need a reality check. we have lost a few at young ages but hardly any have made it. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

37 minutes ago, Big E said:

He is 18 and not playing in the first team. why would he have a pro deal ? 

honestly people need a reality check. we have lost a few at young ages but hardly any have made it. 

To protect an asset, or because we think he might have a chance of contributing to the first team in 12-18 months.

Same as Graham, King-Harmes, Thomasson, Senior.

We might've offered him a contract and it was turned down, or it might've become clear he wouldn'g sign one if offered, but there's no reason in principle why we shouldn't offer players in his position a contract.

[Newton White]

9 hours ago, Traf said:

Word has it that young Regan thought he was too good to train with the scholars and had attitude issues.

He was clearly right

[Take Hunt Off]

Remember way back losing Kyle Bartley to Arsenal. He was also a scholar & we were in the Prem then.

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, green genie said:

I'll raise you Dan Gosling. Went to Everton and we should have had 30% of profit when he moved to Newcastle,  but he screwed Toffees over on contract technicality to get a free transfer .

Yes, good point.  I've had a conversation on here before about my dislike of the "add-ons" based on future transfer fees especially when so many run down their contracts and go on a free.  Or just stay at the same club for 10 years (if we had a clause for Rob Holding we would never see it if he stays at Arsenal).

If its based on league appearances then fair enough, so Plymouth receive £500k when Gosling plays his 100th top flight game for eg, but not to be based mainly on transfer fees which nobody has any control over.  York's windfall probably doesn't happen if Norwich stop up last season.  If the bigger clubs want the players, they should pay what they think he's worth up front, its just a licence to collect players they don't need (Luca Connell etc).  Admittedly the Regan case is complicated by him not being professional.

[Whitesince63]

1 hour ago, Newton White said:

He was clearly right

Nothing wrong with being self confident and from his single performance with the first team, he looked well up to it. I’ve seen our scholars in a couple of games and they’re pants, so I can’t really blame the kid. Maybe Evatt could have done more to bring him into the fold, or maybe we just couldn’t afford to put him on a pro contract. Either way it’s resulted in us losing a really good prospect and pretty much sums up where we are as a club.