Next season's derbies v the tinpot of Lancashire

[paulhanley]

Blackpool up to the Championship, Rochdale down to League 2, Morecambe follow us from League 2. And so the full list of derbies reads: 

Wigan - the renewal of hostilities for the first time after they survived their brush with extinction and since those silly cunts were dancing around the Lofthouse statue at the prospect of us going pop. After the 5-2 loss at pie stadium last time out this fixture probably has more needle than ever before. Not yet clear what they'll do pre-season or how much their new owners will throw at it. The hope is that they remain in transition and we catch them cold. A reasonably early season fixture might be good. These are probably the ultimate tinpot Bolton haters. 

Accrington - another side who took full toll when we were at our weakest. A 7-1 defeat that can never be wiped from our records. From memory they followed it with a Football League Trophy home wins a few weeks later. Next season has to be about getting a bit of our own back about these. Other than that I doubt any of us care too much. Tinpot - but at least with some distant history behind them.

Fleetwood - do these have a grudge against us after we pipped them to promotion under Parkinson? I doubt there's enough of them to have a grudge against anyone. Anyway our record  v them is played 3 won 3 so let's hope we keep that up. Decent day out with limited tickets available. Definitely tinpot.

Morecambe - there seemed to be some signs that we've created another crew of petty Bolton haters after events in the latter part of our promotion year. It should therefore be quite spicy when we play them and next year's games will no doubt determine whether they become died in the wool BWFC chip on the shoulder merchants,  joining their coastal neighbours Blackpool. Tinpot and relegation fodder.

Potential cup opponents from these parts are Oldham, Rochdale and maybe even Stockport.

It's not City, United, Liverpool and Everton. It's not even Blackburn, Burnley, Preston and Blackpool - but now we're competitive and derby matches are now something to relish. Good days out. Are we having it?

[Guest]

Apart from Wigan the others are shit

A Derby game is charged on & off morecambe/fleetwood & Accrington

good drinking days but that’s it 

[Biggish Dave]

I'm looking forward to playing the big teams more than our tinpot local teams. Sheff Weds, Sunderland and Pompey 3 in particular

[Mantra]

Nice summary Paul, I'm with Dave on this one though. Bigger fish to fry this year than them lot if we're looking to achieve what Evatt wants and challenge at the top end, but it's always good to have a bit of a local rivalry as an added spike to the game. After a season of playing against L2 teams it'll be good to have games against the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday.

Local lot will all be piping up like mad first chance they get. I'm sure we'll have more forum invaders. Unlikely that we'll win all our games against the local teams and they'll be sure to rub our faces in it, mainly because it'll be one of their only chances to do it.

I'll be more concerned with finishing above them all though. Challenging for the play-offs is my optimistic target for next season. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Mantra

[Zico]

After getting dicked 5-2 listening to them sing "Bolton's going down with a fiver in the bank", which was a real low points of the downward spiral, I can't wait for this team to turn up at their place and take it to them

Edited May 31, 2021 by Zico

[Underpants]

There's some long trips next season.

[MancWanderer]

2 hours ago, paulhanley said:

Blackpool up to the Championship, Rochdale down to League 2, Morecambe follow us from League 2. And so the full list of derbies reads: 

Wigan - the renewal of hostilities for the first time after they survived their brush with extinction and since those silly cunts were dancing around the Lofthouse statue at the prospect of us going pop. After the 5-2 loss at pie stadium last time out this fixture probably has more needle than ever before. Not yet clear what they'll do pre-season or how much their new owners will throw at it. The hope is that they remain in transition and we catch them cold. A reasonably early season fixture might be good. These are probably the ultimate tinpot Bolton haters. 

Accrington - another side who took full toll when we were at our weakest. A 7-1 defeat that can never be wiped from our records. From memory they followed it with a Football League Trophy home wins a few weeks later. Next season has to be about getting a bit of our own back about these. Other than that I doubt any of us care too much. Tinpot - but at least with some distant history behind them.

Fleetwood - do these have a grudge against us after we pipped them to promotion under Parkinson? I doubt there's enough of them to have a grudge against anyone. Anyway our record  v them is played 3 won 3 so let's hope we keep that up. Decent day out with limited tickets available. Definitely tinpot.

Morecambe - there seemed to be some signs that we've created another crew of petty Bolton haters after events in the latter part of our promotion year. It should therefore be quite spicy when we play them and next year's games will no doubt determine whether they become died in the wool BWFC chip on the shoulder merchants,  joining their coastal neighbours Blackpool. Tinpot and relegation fodder.

Potential cup opponents from these parts are Oldham, Rochdale and maybe even Stockport.

It's not City, United, Liverpool and Everton. It's not even Blackburn, Burnley, Preston and Blackpool - but now we're competitive and derby matches are now something to relish. Good days out. Are we having it?

Great summary Paul 

[Steejay]

Lancaster pubs are great, can’t wait for the Morecambe awayday.

[Whitesince63]

Well being based in South Yorkshire, I’ve got some great “home” games to go to at Rotherham, Wednesday and another of our “haters” Doncaster. Having lived in Lincoln until recently, that’s another one I’m really looking forward to after their failure to get promoted. Some genuinely good games to look forward to next season and I can’t wait to get it started.

[Dr. Feelgood]

Some realignment is in order.

Rochdale SHOULD be in a lower league than us, so that's a relief. Morecambe will struggle to make anything of themselves next year ... the word will be out on their shithousery and refs will be ready for it.

Accrington & Fleetwood. It's difficult still to acknowledge they have been in a higher league, let's sort that out asap.

Fleetwood I extend especial bile toward as loaners of Crellin and, more to the point, refusing to take him back.

Accrington, took us apart just as we began to believe Hill's squad were going upward & onwards. Tobias completed that job not much later.

Wigan. How did that log stay afloat ?

Crewe ... genuinely a better team for too long. Sort that out.

My semi-local match will be at Shrewsbury. Another I must rub my eyes to see above us 

I just want our self respect back. It's a long way to being restored after last season. Let's kick on. Then I'll cope with derbies against Blackburn & Preston plus almost local Stoke for a couple of seasons.

 

[Rudy]

I genuinely detest Wigan away

[Benny The Ball]

This is a good topic Paul 

These tinpot clubs that you refer to (and by my definition there will be 11 in the league next season) are for the most part a consequence of allowing automatic promotion to and relegation from the EFL, and as such are a relatively new phenomena, but are they good for the underlying health of the EFL ? 

By my definition these "Nouvelle Tinpot" are clubs whose only ambition once they have got into the EFL is to stay there by whatever means they can , existing on paltry gates that have little hope of rising substantially if they are successful and often supported by a local benefactor.They are often in areas with little or no tradition of football supporting or are in areas already saturated with professional clubs. 

Morecambe is the classic example - existing on the lowest of league gates and having sat in league 2 for something like 15 years - success for them is survival. 

I would define Sutton United, Harrogate, Salford , Forest Green Rovers, Fleetwood, Crawley, Stevenage , Burton, Morecambe and Accrington as Tin Pot , whilst MK Dons because of the way they morphed into existence have to be the biggest tinpot club of them all. 

When you consider that this season the EFL has lost a well supported club like Grimsby and Southend and the likes of Chesterfield Hartlepool , Notts County, Stockport , Torquay Wrexham and York are already in the National League - often through mismanagement by club owners - is this automatic promotion / relegation  a good thing ?

For the fans of phoenix clubs such as Bury, Chester and Halifax there has to be hope of a route back to the EFL.

What have the likes of Barnet, Boston , Dagenham ,  Maidstone , Rushden and Macclesfield contributed to the EFL during the time they were in it ?

Am not against some sort of promotion - the return of Newport Barrow AFC Wimbledon is in my opinion for the good of the game , but as more of these tinpot clubs establish themselves in the EFL , I wonder if they should go back to some sort of re - election to determine who is in and who is out ?

 

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

12 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

This is a good topic Paul 

These tinpot clubs that you refer to (and by my definition there will be 11 in the league next season) are for the most part a consequence of allowing automatic promotion to and relegation from the EFL, and as such are a relatively new phenomena, but are they good for the underlying health of the EFL ? 

By my definition these "Nouvelle Tinpot" are clubs whose only ambition once they have got into the EFL is to stay there by whatever means they can , existing on paltry gates that have little hope of rising substantially if they are successful and often supported by a local benefactor.They are often in areas with little or no tradition of football supporting or are in areas already saturated with professional clubs. 

Morecambe is the classic example - existing on the lowest of league gates and having sat in league 2 for something like 15 years - success for them is survival. 

I would define Sutton United, Harrogate, Salford , Forest Green Rovers, Fleetwood, Crawley, Stevenage , Burton, Morecambe and Accrington as Tin Pot , whilst MK Dons because of the way they morphed into existence have to be the biggest tinpot club of them all. 

When you consider that this season the EFL has lost a well supported club like Grimsby and Southend and the likes of Chesterfield Hartlepool , Notts County, Stockport , Torquay Wrexham and York are already in the National League - often through mismanagement by club owners - is this automatic promotion / relegation  a good thing ?

For the fans of phoenix clubs such as Bury, Chester and Halifax there has to be hope of a route back to the EFL.

What have the likes of Barnet, Boston , Dagenham ,  Maidstone , Rushden and Macclesfield contributed to the EFL during the time they were in it ?

Am not against some sort of promotion - the return of Newport Barrow AFC Wimbledon is in my opinion for the good of the game , but as more of these tinpot clubs establish themselves in the EFL , I wonder if they should go back to some sort of re - election to determine who is in and who is out ?

I take many of your points, but as things stand why not call it League 3 ... or my preference Division 5 ?

Regarding Pheonix clubs, Newport left the FL and folded completely in 1989, owing £500k but no-one came forward to save them. They ended up with a new club, in the Hellenic League playing in Gloucestershire and quietly built themselves back up the leagues. Hence their current nickname of "The Exiles".

Burton, whether we like it or not, spent 2 years in the Second Division.

Back in my yoof, re-election, usually automatically approved, was the bottom 4 clubs. Often as not Crewe & Tranmere were involved. Often referred to as an 'old boys act' it was rare for a club not to be re-elected. When a club was dropped it was often for sheer convenience. Barrow & Workington for example were long journeys & quite expensive. Southport were done-over by Whelan (he broke his leg at Wembley btw. Not a lot of people know that) and a huge, long, PR campaign.

"The last club to lose the League status by a vote were Southport in 1978. They drew with Wigan on 26 botes. A second round confirmed Wigan were elected, by 9 votes". (Wiki)

They weren't even 24th. That honour went to Rochdale, a full 7 points beneath them. It's worth noting that Watford, Brentford and Swansea were in that Division that year. 

For me, there should be an automatic place but linked to certain standards of ground, support, financial guarantees ... & access not the dropping to the next club to achieve it.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Dr. Feelgood

[Whitesince63]

53 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

This is a good topic Paul 

These tinpot clubs that you refer to (and by my definition there will be 11 in the league next season) are for the most part a consequence of allowing automatic promotion to and relegation from the EFL, and as such are a relatively new phenomena, but are they good for the underlying health of the EFL ? 

By my definition these "Nouvelle Tinpot" are clubs whose only ambition once they have got into the EFL is to stay there by whatever means they can , existing on paltry gates that have little hope of rising substantially if they are successful and often supported by a local benefactor.They are often in areas with little or no tradition of football supporting or are in areas already saturated with professional clubs. 

Morecambe is the classic example - existing on the lowest of league gates and having sat in league 2 for something like 15 years - success for them is survival. 

I would define Sutton United, Harrogate, Salford , Forest Green Rovers, Fleetwood, Crawley, Stevenage , Burton, Morecambe and Accrington as Tin Pot , whilst MK Dons because of the way they morphed into existence have to be the biggest tinpot club of them all. 

When you consider that this season the EFL has lost a well supported club like Grimsby and Southend and the likes of Chesterfield Hartlepool , Notts County, Stockport , Torquay Wrexham and York are already in the National League - often through mismanagement by club owners - is this automatic promotion / relegation  a good thing ?

For the fans of phoenix clubs such as Bury, Chester and Halifax there has to be hope of a route back to the EFL.

What have the likes of Barnet, Boston , Dagenham ,  Maidstone , Rushden and Macclesfield contributed to the EFL during the time they were in it ?

Am not against some sort of promotion - the return of Newport Barrow AFC Wimbledon is in my opinion for the good of the game , but as more of these tinpot clubs establish themselves in the EFL , I wonder if they should go back to some sort of re - election to determine who is in and who is out ?

 

I see your point Benny but if the idea of our football pyramid is to allow fans of any club to enjoy a rise through the leagues and have the dream of playing PL football one day, shutting clubs out because they are “tinpot” in some people’s opinion, doesn’t equate. Look at the PL of recent years and you might have said the same about the likes of Bournemouth or Brentford, even Wigan who haven’t been in the league that long, don’t have a big following but have won the FA Cup, which we haven’t done recently. Also, you have to remember that Accy, or at least the previous version, were founder members of the league. All of these things make football in England the wonderful thing that it is and whilst like you, I have no love for many of these smaller clubs and do feel embarrassed for us to share a division with them, I do respect their right to climb as high as they possibly can. 

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

7 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Sorry. Double sent.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Dr. Feelgood

[Johnnyrotten]

5 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

This is a good topic Paul 

These tinpot clubs that you refer to (and by my definition there will be 11 in the league next season) are for the most part a consequence of allowing automatic promotion to and relegation from the EFL, and as such are a relatively new phenomena, but are they good for the underlying health of the EFL ? 

By my definition these "Nouvelle Tinpot" are clubs whose only ambition once they have got into the EFL is to stay there by whatever means they can , existing on paltry gates that have little hope of rising substantially if they are successful and often supported by a local benefactor.They are often in areas with little or no tradition of football supporting or are in areas already saturated with professional clubs. 

Morecambe is the classic example - existing on the lowest of league gates and having sat in league 2 for something like 15 years - success for them is survival. 

I would define Sutton United, Harrogate, Salford , Forest Green Rovers, Fleetwood, Crawley, Stevenage , Burton, Morecambe and Accrington as Tin Pot , whilst MK Dons because of the way they morphed into existence have to be the biggest tinpot club of them all. 

When you consider that this season the EFL has lost a well supported club like Grimsby and Southend and the likes of Chesterfield Hartlepool , Notts County, Stockport , Torquay Wrexham and York are already in the National League - often through mismanagement by club owners - is this automatic promotion / relegation  a good thing ?

For the fans of phoenix clubs such as Bury, Chester and Halifax there has to be hope of a route back to the EFL.

What have the likes of Barnet, Boston , Dagenham ,  Maidstone , Rushden and Macclesfield contributed to the EFL during the time they were in it ?

Am not against some sort of promotion - the return of Newport Barrow AFC Wimbledon is in my opinion for the good of the game , but as more of these tinpot clubs establish themselves in the EFL , I wonder if they should go back to some sort of re - election to determine who is in and who is out ?

 

 

Good write up that.  It pains me to see the contrast between the "tinpot" clubs in the EFL and the bigger clubs in the conference.  (I think you missed Cheltenham off the list?  I visited their ground last month and it makes a small ground like Gigg Lane look like the Reebok, simply too small for EFL).  I don't know what the answer is, I just know I don't like it as it reduces the appeal of football fixtures at that level (for me).  If for eg Hartlepool or Hereford were playing Stockport or Notts County in an important game, I could relate to it; when its Dagenham v Forest Green it just means nothing, they aren't/weren't real clubs with real fans in any numbers. 

[MalcolmW]

6 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

 Burton, whether we like it or not, spent 2 years in the Second Division.

 

 

The first second tier derby match was between Burton Swifts and Burton Wanderers - one week before the first Manc derby.

[Zico]

Forgot about Crewe 

Probably easiest game for me to get too 

Definitely in