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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

paulhanley

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Posts posted by paulhanley

  1. 9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

    It was a question to LW, seeing as he seems miffed with over 50s fans.

    As for the bigger picture, it is correct that we need to wake up- I would extend that to all decent sides though. Is it a lack of heart or a lack of ability to compete with whole hearted opponents?

    Has to come from the coaching staff and training ground- they can see what we can, so have to sort it.

     

    Its a lack of commitment to matching whole hearted opponents. If sides are better than us and beat us - no complaints, we learn and improve. 

    Derby matches are different beasts the world over though. We seem to the only football club that doesn't realise that! 

  2. 28 minutes ago, gonzo said:

    Still fucking fuming me :(

    And me.

    I wonder if Evatt and the club understand how many hard-won credits they've pissed away with one afternoon of gutless football?

  3. 4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

    Why are you bothered by those fans that don't see Wigan as a big rival though?

    Folk can't help feel what they do, just human.

    For me, it's not specifically that we were playing a big local Derby, but the fact that we were simply a bit biz against another strong team. Again.

    We have to improve to get over the promotion hurdle.

    Not sure if that's addressed to me

    It's irrelevant whether some Bolton fans think Wigan are big rival while others don't. The point is Wigan hate us and will always play well, well above their normal levels against us. That's what teams the world over tend to do when playing against the side you consider to be your arch-rival, which they do.

    However, crucially, the club itself/the management, need also to appreciate the way the derby will make Wigan/the opposition play. This whole scenario plays out again v Blackpool in November. Blackpool hate us, be under no illusion. If we stroll in to that game like we did yesterday we will come unstuck. It's time for the staff at Bolton Wanderers to wake up and have the players ready for these occasions. They want our scalp, let's not meekly roll over for them.

     

  4. 9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

    This sums it up for me.

     I was at the Wigan battering a couple of seasons ago & this just brought it all back. We can all take a loss but I’m fuming that we’ve let ourselves be turned over twice.

     What also pisses me off are the 50+ year old posters who want to dictate who are rivals are. 

    Football rivalries are often fluid & Wigan are up there for the time being. They will likely be right behind us this season & they don’t appear to be going away like folk assume. 
     

    Time to stop being arrogant & turn up for the big games. It was concerning in the play offs & this is too. Confident Evatt will address it 🤍

    I don't think you can lay the problem at the door of the fans. We don't go out and play the game. The club itself/the management seem consistently to misunderstand what derby matches against us mean to various of our neighbours and it leaves us wide open. Evatt was saying he didn't see yesterday coming ... well he bloody well should have seen it coming. Wigan always play like they are on steroids against us. It'll be the same v Blackpool in November. We have to match it, or we will be in for more of the half baked nonsense we witnessed yesterday and some of the other shocking episodes of under-performance againt local rivals.

  5. 15 minutes ago, victor meldrew said:

    i was told this morning it started in the wheatsheaf with a middle aged bolton fan getting a kicking , the fighting spilled into market st , as wigan went up the st the white lion emptied into them.

    History repeated itself happened on the pitch, but if this version is right then Wigan picking on lone/cheap targets would be another case of history on repeat. Maybe they came badly unstuck afterwards. 

    ...probably quite a few from both sides will come unstuck with an early morning knock on the door.

  6. 20 minutes ago, gonzo said:

    So true. Im dreading the Blackpool fixture this season.

    They will be bang up for it as ever, from the players to the fans. Will be talk of the town for weeks before.

    Its ok though we don't need to be up for it. We only hate Man United and everyone else is tinpot.

    I always dread it because I know we won't match them for intensity. I'm not sure how we've managed to avoid a home defeat against them in the last decade or so. Twice we went 0-2 down before being jolted out of our slumber and there was another under Lennon when Eidur grabbed a 95th minute equaliser for us. At the time Blackpool were rock bottom and relegated in all but name. They turned up and played their hearts out while we only started looking interested 20 minutes from then end. You'd hope Evatt has an insight in to Blackpool's mentality like Parkinson did with Bury. But how can you have any confidence after yesterday? 

  7. 2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

    Not sure you can dismiss the teams you do there!

    Yes the record you highlight is shite, but we have won games against other local teams. They may not have a long standing history, but then again neither did Wigan in the 80s.

    For me, at the moment, it's an issue against the better/more passionate teams, irrespective of whether they're local or not.

    I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying they've got the right attitude to derby matches and we've got the wrong one.

  8. Obviously there's lot of talk about what went wrong in terms of tactics in yesterdays game but to my mind our problems in such fixtures run much deeper than the present day, Ian Evatt, our current squad. 

    Here are the facts: 

    • We are six games without a win against Preston dating back to 2001. - that includes three straight home defeats.
    • We've won one of 10 league games v Blackpool since we started playing them again in 2010 after a long gap with no fixtures. We've not won at Bloomfield Road since 1977 (14 league and cup fixtures). Admittedly there are a lot of draws in these fixtures but its still not good enough. 
    • Our most recent derby win (excluding Accrington, Morecambe, Fleetwood) came against Blackburn at Christmas 2015 when Madine scored a late winner for 1-0 in a dour league game. In December that'll be eight years ago! Before then we can at least say we won and lost fixtures v Blackburn in roughly equal measure.
    • We've not won in four fixtures v Burnley and one in six. The last win was in February 2013 - ten years ago. 
    • We are now seven games without a win v Wigan (six league games) including some horrible thumpings (5-2, 4-0, 4-0). Eight years since an FA Cup win in early 2015 and nine years since a league win (3-1 at home in 2014). 
    • Bury are no longer with us in a recognisable form but anyone with longer memories will know what an utter meal we routinely made of fixtures v them. It sums up the malaise I am trying to describe. In the early 80s and 90s we sustained defeats against 2-3, 2-4, 1-4 and 1-3 home defeats against them of which yesterday's farce had echoes. We went 87 years without a win at Gigg Lane and although there were long gaps without a fixture there were enough for us to have won a few. It took ex Bury player Phil Parkinson to understand what it meant to them so that we finally got over the line with a 0-2 win there in 2016. 

    You could lob in Accrington 7 Bolton 1 (and other gormless defeats to Stanley lately) and Stockport 5 Bolton 3 in recent times. 

    What the fuck is wrong with us? 

    I doubt you'll find another club in English football with such a sloppy attitude to derby matches against sides who want our scalp. It's irritated me for a long time - even more so now I've just spent 20 mins googling the facts. 

    We badly need to buck our ideas up in these games. They're out of context of whatever season they're in and we're surrounded by clubs who love to beat us. We need to take the same one-off approach and gear ourselves up properly for such fixtures ... otherwise debacles like yesterday will continue to happen.

     

  9. 33 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

    You are spot on had time to reflect and you are correct the buck stops with IE and Markham they go on about doing due diligence on players so 1 must be you must be a soft cunt with no bottle when the going gets tough because apart from Dempsey they are all a bunch of weak fuckers. 
    I again have to go into work to get ripped to pieces by tics thanks to the inept showing of our team thanks a fecking lot !! 

    You're right but it's not just the modern era. Waltzing in to fixtures against Wigan, Bury and to a degree Blackpool and coming up badly short has been a trend throughout the 46 years I've been following the club. You can even sense the same mentality in some of our recent games against Accrington and Morecambe (although at least the latter never beat us). These clubs are massively up for it against us. Unless and until we grasp that, these results will continue. Blackpool (h) in November is next. Not looking forward to it.

  10. 6 hours ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

    I left after the first half but their three goals were all gifts and apart from us playing shit and handing them all the goals they are not better than us. Too many had atrocious games today and I suppose the occasion affected us and they were up for it.

     

    a win next week at Burton and the pain will have gone

    No it won't. What's needed is a win at Wigan when we go there. In fact what's needed is a sequence of wins against them to redress the recent balance. But it won't happen because the club doesn't grasp what derby matches mean. 

  11. 11 minutes ago, DaisyHWanderer said:

    All this they aren't our rivals is playing into their hands. They might not have been 30 years ago but they are now - like it or not. The sooner we sooner we start treating it like that the sooner we might put a performance in.

    As politely as I can, that's bollocks. What we say and do as fans has no bearing on the attitude Evatt sends his team out with.

    The powers that be at the club need to get a grip and understand that when we play in derbies against local sides who are the same size or smaller than us, they're out for our scalp. They'll play above themselves and get stuck in and we need to match or better that attitude . To be fair it's what any club worth it's salt does in derbies. Bolton Wanderers have a poor record in that regard and it is showing no sign of change.

  12. 1 minute ago, gonzo said:

    This has been my point all day, people need to sit up and realise what these fixtures mean.

    Or we just keep getting rolled over and embarrassed every fucking time we play in one.

    We think we are massive and too good for these games. We just look like dicks.

    Yeah but that's not the fault of the fans, it's the fault of Evatt and the club for not realising the importance of these occasions and gearing up for the unique occasion of a Lancs derby. And I have to say there's a history of it as this club that you can trace back (on and off) over a number of decades. More often than not the club itself just doesn't have the right mentality to deal with clubs who bear a deep-seated grudge against us. We went the best part of a century with no win at Gigg Lane until Phil Parkinson geared us up right because he had played for Bury and knew intimately what it meant for them.

    I exclude Fleetwood fixtures - so we've three more of these this year. Blackpool (home and away), Wigan (away). You of all Bolton fans will know what the Blackpool fixture will be like. It never changes. You'd hope Evatt might have an inkling given his past but what's the betting we stroll in to fixtures v them like we did today? You can see it coming.

    When was the last time we won a derby match that means something? It's a fucking long time ago now! 

     

  13. 5 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

    It’s definitely not only 3 points, it’s a mauling by Wigan, again. Psychologically it’s huge, and a stain on our history. For a lot of fans that could be the only game they come to in months, it’s damaging.

    This is the point. Derby matches have a different meaning that is out of the context of whichever season they are in. Our recent record in derbies that matter (excluding Morecambe, Fleetwood and Accrington) is a disgrace. It needs addressing. 

  14. 10 minutes ago, gonzo said:

    Not a proper rival, not a proper derby, only hate Man United, this generations Tranmere, just another game.....

    These cunts turn up, year on year and take the fucking piss.

    Every single one of them pumped and ready, player for player, fan for fan every single one of them.

    And every single time we fold like a pack of cards. Nobody realises that these cunts are here to stay, we arent fucking massive and these fuckers wont be forever in our shadow, they pull one over us every fucking time.

    The sooner we get a grip and realise the occasion we might have half a chance.

    Second to every ball, second to every tackle, free headers, no fucking game management whatsoever.

    Beaten by the occasion. 4 fucking 0.

    But its just another game. United threw tomatoes at our team bus in 1958. We are massive and Wigan are tinpot. 

    Fuck 

    Off.

     

    To be fair what the fans do and say on here should have no relevance to the club. They talk the talk before these derbies and then turn up and play dismally, letting every one of us down.

    I'm afraid it's been going on for generations. Our history since the 80s is pockmarked with truly shocking results like this against Bury and Wigan.

    Over history the likes of Chelsea/United/Liverpool play against teams who hate them and their fans week in and week out - they prepare accordingly and have the right mentality to combat it. It means they rarely get rolled over by grudge-carrying smaller clubs We are an absolute million miles off that attitude in these games - and that's within the club, not outside of it amongst us.

    It needs to stop and they need to buck up because it'll happen again against Blackpool and Wigan this very season if they don't.

  15. I could write a lot about how utterly pathetic that was today and the weaknesses it exposes. But you're all doing that already.

    Instead I am going to focus on how this is another abject chapter in this club's failure to appreciate what fixtures like this mean to Wigan, to Bury in the past and to a slightly lesser degree Blackpool. They turn up steeled for it and ready to bully us out of our stride. On far too many occasions we walk straight towards the guns, unappreciative and clueless about what's coming, we get caught by surprise and ultimately embarrassed.

    It happened four or five times v Bury in the 80s, it's happened v Wigan a number of times over the past 15 years and a few times before that. We never, ever, ever, ever learn - generation after generation.

    There are clubs who seem to thrive on derbies against bigger or smaller opposition. We seem to be the polar opposite. Its shocking to see for the loyal fans. It needs addressing. We've two fixtures v Blackpool and another v these to come this year. This type of gutlessness in derbies cannot happen again irrespective of what the rest of the season brings.

    As an older fan I'd conclude that this is another unwanted skid mark of a performance to taint the history of the club. I'm a big supporter of Evatt. He and the whole set up have taken a lot of plaudits. They now need to reflect on this disgrace and respond. 

  16. 2 minutes ago, bwfc2003 said:

    He knocks about with FD and some of the old lever Enders

    Sounds right. That's exactly his era and FD would have been a contemporary. In fact (if memory serves) FD gets referenced in his book. Not by name but you can tell who he's on about.

  17. 2 minutes ago, athywhite1958 said:

    Carl is a good mate to a lot of Bolton lads, he comes over to Bolton and turns out with some of the older lads, he is a great Northern Soul /Motown DJ, we have had him on Colls on a couple of occasions and he DJ'd at a recent BWRG event

    Sounds like the years have mellowed the lad! 

     

  18. 2 minutes ago, BWFC_LOVE said:

    This is a funny one. I could not give any less of a fuck about Oldham, and have never encountered a Wanderer that mentions them.
    Yet they bizarrely seem to score high from some fan censuses online as rivals of ours.

    Also on our Wikipedia:-

    Bolton fans also maintain a mutual dislike with the fans of nearby Burnley, Oldham Athletic, Tranmere Rovers and the more distant Wolverhampton Wanderers.

    According to a survey conducted in August 2019 entitled 'The League of Love and Hate', Bolton supporters named Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Wigan Athletic, Oldham Athletic and Bury as their biggest rivals.”

    Odd. 

    The inclusion of Oldham on that list makes me think it's made up! The closest they came to registering was in the 70s when we played them loads with our away support frightening them to death at Boundary Park every season. Then obviously after that Quarter Final in 94

    There was an Oldham lad  (Carl Spiers?) who wrote a book about Oldham's "exploits" in the 70s. Hating but respecting our support at its 70s peak is a big feature. A lot of Bolton tales in that book.

  19. 36 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

    Ah I’m thinking of the 2-2 when we had 9 men savage game 

    Nah that was before then.  The game in which Muzzy Izzet got the softest sending off ever because Riley's bottle was going due to the hell flowing down from the stands. 

  20. 5 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

    Not sure about that

    It used to be split half & half first few seasons then gradually away fans all top half bottom then eventually all south 

    Definitely right. Remember it as clear as day. You're right they used to split it the way you describe. But on those two particular days they didn't. 

    Les Ferdinand scored a late equaliser for Leicester to make it 2-2 in the pissing rain. Henrik scored for us in a 1-1 draw v Arsenal.

  21. 6 minutes ago, Lostock Whites said:

    Interesting.

    How did we manage to get 28,000 during those glory days in the Big Sam era?

    28,350 and 28,000 against Leicester and Arsenal in the 2003/4 season.

    Did we just say fuck Health and Safety ? 

    We had the away fans in the South Stand Upper only. We had home fans everywhere else. As such there was no need for any segregation gaps.

  22. Things that have happened yet this season: 

    * Late drama rather than loads of early action

    * A red card for th'opposition

    * No pens. 

    One or more of the above perhaps? 

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