paulhanley
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Posts posted by paulhanley
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1 minute ago, kent_white said:
1) Defend your box well.
2) Put the ball into dangerous areas.
That's all Rotherham have done today. Fair fucking play to them!
Yep. Football kept simple.
Everyone can see what/who the problem is at this football club. Everyone except those inside the groupthink bubble in the boardroom. As such they are also deeply culpable.
Dark days like today are what we need to get rid of him. We should not have to be put through this as fans when we can all see the patently obvious. Our board need a long hard look at themselves.
I hate having to say stuff like this. I hate Saturdays being the non-event that they are just now. But we know what we're on about and the board just don't. They can't otherwise this clown would not still be in a job. What other conclusion is there to draw?
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5 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:
I wouldn't have put Pollock above Henry in the hardman pecking order? Pollock could be a bit of a loose cannon in a Joey Barton type of way but he wasn't one of them players the opposition were afraid to foul surely, Henry seemed harder to me.
A modern version of what we're missing, whether they are hard men or just can look after themselves physically, is Cameron Branagan. Always seemed a shame he went to Oxford (not exactly a dream move) when he's from Salford and came through at Liverpool. If he ever wants to return to the NW hope he comes here.
Yes you don't have to be a midfield hard-man in the old Tommy Hutchinson/Graeme Souness/Steve McMahon mold to have the ability to put your foot in. You only have to think back to Per Frandsen - skilfull and athletic but wasn't without the ability to tackle. You need a decent amount of that in the make-up of a midfield.
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Might be a good player. I should be excited about pinching one of the better players from a team in the same division.
Question is, is Evatt going to drown him in tactics and coach all the individuality out of him? I am at "peak cynicism" with Evatt and thus am conflicted between wanting BWFC to do well and wanting a fresh start in the manager's seat. I don't think the former is possible without the latter.
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Some good thoughtful posts on here yesterday and today. Most folk seem of a similar mind - the way the game has developed is good but the baby has gone out with the bathwater in certain instances.
Maybe at some point there'll be a measure of revisionism.
I also agree with those who have pointed out that man-management skills seem on the decline in favour of people who are one dimensional tacticians. Reminds of a Cloughie saying "There's a lot of crap talked about tactics by people who wouldn't know how to win a game of dominoes" .
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2 hours ago, burnden said:
Aye
Not condoning brainless social media posts in saying this ... but "reprehensible" is a word that could equally be applied to three straight home defeats against Wigan and a 5-0 defeat at Stockport County. About time they looked at their own "reprehensible" behaviour towards the fanbase.
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1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:
In a way, it doesn't matter what your approach is- if you're good at it the success should follow.
Just got be remembered that there are two teams on the field.
If for whatever reason its not working on the day, then the squad/subs, willingness and flexibility to change things as necessary.
Also the willingness to look at an opponent and see strengths and weaknesses there.
Interesting vid of Rioch after the white hot wins, saying "we don't worry about the opposition". He had managed to assemble a squad who could support and manage themselves to an extent, but I doubt he never did any homework whatsoever, and he wasn't averse to changing things according to need on a given day.
I can remember him changing to three central defenders In the Autumn of the season after he got us promoted (93/4). We went on a big unbeaten run and got a foothold in our new division after a really patchy start in August and September. He didn't stick with it, but it got us through. A lot of those games were draws but it needed doing and he did it. And this was three centre backs with two full backs, not wing backs. Good management, read the situation, saw we were struggling defensively and shored it all up for a time.
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14 minutes ago, desperado said:
A good post which offers the alternative perspective.
I think as always there’s a balance, and @paulhanley makes some good points about not losing some of the more traditional aspects of our game and over-complicating things in the modern game.
However we have to be very careful this doesn’t come across as a narrow-minded generational moan.
When I first came into PE teaching/Coaching in the late 80s/90s, I was forever faced with being told this is how it should be done with old traditional methods, very little openness to change and adapt.
My early experiences of our academy weren’t great, turning down kids because they weren’t tall enough or big enough.
A lot of changes have been for the better, kids are being coached much better now than they were 30/40 years ago. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that our fortunes on the international stage are better too.
If you read my original post I am careful to say that the change in mindset has been very beneficial. We've largely eradicated Charles Hughes dinosaur football and English footballers are now far more composed and technically gifted. My point is that the baby has gone out with the bathwater. Especially on the defensive side of the game there were things passed from generation to generation for the very good reason that they worked. I list some above and others have added. What's the point of increasing and polishing your attacking play if the price is losing defensive solidity. Some of the passing around in a team's own penalty area and goalkeeper errors are embarrassing. Who the hell stopped coaching keepers how to position themselves to avoid getting done at the near post for instance? It's maddening.
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Not just me then thank goodness.
You begin to doubt your own sanity when you see things consistently going on during a football match that are madness. There are so many stats in football now, has nobody ever done a cost benefit analysis of playing the ball out from the your own six yard box - how many goals are conceded compared to scored? I don't know but I reckon it'd blow the whole nonsensical approach out of the water.
Meanwhile there are still some people in the game who understand the value of sound defence. I hate to say Shaun Maloney is one (despite coming unstuck yesterday). Another is Scott Parker at Burnley. Here's what he said after yesterday's game at Ewood. If Evatt reads these comments it'll be like someone is speaking to him in an alien language.
"What this team have done defensively this year has been nothing short of sensational and I get it's not the most glamorous part of the game but I've been around long enough to know it's the bedrock and foundation of any team."
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Long post alert but I want to write this to see whether people are in agreement with me about the way football has gone this past 10-15 years. It's not just the way Bolton Wanderers play - but it definitely includes us.Sport is legion with coaches, sports scientists and others who seek to find "extra one per cent" improvements, bits of things that when done consistently well can lead to big progress. British cycling became famed for this. All very laudableSomehow in the search for the new, football seems to have lost its corporate memory and what was good about the old. In effect a series of one per cents have been cast to oblivion. Such is the obsession with playing out from the back and "through the thirds" that certain basics from the past seem to have been deleted from our culture. They are especially but not exclusively focused on defensive playKeepers: The modern day ones seem often to be elevated because of how they are with the ball at their feet rather than their actual keeping skills. Cart before horse. Many have chocolate wrists, have no idea how to command their box and regularly commit the cardinal sin of being beaten at their near post. It's incredible how often the latter happens compared to days of yore.Full backs: Does anybody simplify it down for them and say that whatever attacking play they get involved in the number one job is to block crosses?Centre backs: More cardinal sins of yesteryear committed with regularity, chiefly letting the ball bounce and opening up a pandora's box of danger rather than the tried and trusted method of meeting it with the head or boot and getting the ball to safety.Defenders generally: Great that they are more comfortable on the ball but messing around with it in your own six yard box and having no instinct as to when "the right moment" to play as opposed to get rid of it comes along.I could go on...I am no advocate of the Charles Hughes inspired "play the ball down the channels" dinosaur philosophy that retarded English football for so long. We don't want that back and I hope the era of liberated, free flowing home bred midfielders and strikers, comfortable in possession is here to stay. But surely we have to ally that to a few forgotten old truths about defensive play. Maybe if we get this back in to our culture England won't have to resort to two holding midfielders to protect suspect defenders.In terms of our own backyard I don't think this could ever happen under Evatt who is a high priest of these modern methods - living the 2020s footballing wet dream with no compromise or pragmatism, over-thinking, over-coaching, over-complicating. -
30 minutes ago, Cheese said:
Anyone who can be bothered listening to the same old claptrap deserves a gold medal.
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Same old faults in evidence.
The trouble is Evatt probably thinks a win here erases some of the previous disgraces.
We have seen what this team/squad is made of with this manager in charge. He's avoided a further nail in his coffin today. The coffin is still there and its got several immovable nails in it - the ones driven in by Stockport, Wigan and Oxford for instance.
No change of view from me. Evatt out.
Oh and remind me, which genius loaned Morley out in the first place?
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Get rid of Evatt, pay him and his crap backroom staff off with the money we'd have spent on transfers. Go with the same squad to the end of season. Inevitably a new manager will get more out of them because let's face it how could he get less. Then back the new manager in the summer window.
Everything would be freshened up, we'd feel like we have something to look forward to again and maybe, just maybe, we'd have someone who is more concerned with results than aesthetics and who isn't dogmatic and hidebound with his "philosophy".
The bloke has to go. In retrospect he should have gone after Oxford but he certainly should after Exeter and Huddersfield at home (which is when I turned against him for keeps). He is a complete liability and if you want the proof, the abject defeats to Stockport and Wigan are blots on our history forever. We do not want any more such occasions and we want hard-headed management to get us back the Championship.
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3 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:
Now we know what we do in training. Because it isn’t practicing defending, corners, free kicks or shooting.
AKA doing the basics. Because such matters are beneath Evatt while he pretends he's Jurgen Klopp.
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Same old shit. Same old faults. No doubt we will soon have the same excuses.
EVATT OUT.
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In the context of what went before Southgate did an unbelievable job. The tournaments have been great even if at times we've been deadly to watch. The first game of his I really enjoyed was the 2-0 World Cup Quarter Final v Sweden in 2018. That was a real breakthrough moment. Obviously the two Euro finals we reached are to his credit although he can be criticised for the way he managed the Italy final. We sat back at 1-0.
Overall though, a tournament win over Germany, a semi-final win over the Dutch, the double over Italy in qualifiers. None of that is stuff we'd have achieved before. People can say he's had a great generation of footballers but he made enough of it to be the most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey.
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39 minutes ago, Krimzon said:
Yeah but its a win ...how can you not get pumped when we win ?
Easy.
Flat track bullies.
Don't forget the surrenders v Wigan and Stockport. And the previous surrenders v Wigan and others.
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I don't remember his time in goal but very well remember his time as boss. He was appointed after a golden spell as caretaker (New Year 1985) in the wake of John McGovern's departure. As seems to be the way in football a barren run then followed.
In the summer of 85 he tried to re-cast the McGovern template of young footballing sides based on home grown talent. It was an exciting few months as he brought in household names who were beyond their top flight best - David Cross and Asa Hartford. Big Sam also returned aged 30. My young and callow mind thought we were all set to walk Div 3. Third game of that season we lost 1-4 at home to Bury.
It all didn't work out in the end. We remained where Mr McGovern had left us, lower mid-table in Division 3. He'd not even been in the job 12 months when he was sacked and replaced by Phil Neal.
Highlights of his reign were probably two wins as caretaker boss: A 3-0 home win over Derby and a 1-2 win at Bristol Rovers on a Tuesday night. That one brought to an end an astonishing run of poor form away from home in 84/5 - we had failed to win or draw any of our first 10 or 11 league away games that season. Also worth mentioning a 4-1 home trouncing of Wolves in 85/6.
RIP Charlie and condolences to the family.
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What moves the needle is Evatt being sacked.
I've now reached the stage of wanting us to lose to ram the point home to the board. No football fan should be put in such a position. Our cohort of directors need massively jolting out of this debilitating head in the sand/groupthink/not reading the room mode they are in.
What worries me most is our board seem willing to accept beyond the pale results like Stockport 5 Bolton 0, Bolton 0 Wigan 2 and Wembley. What else are we supposed to infer from Evatt's continued presence? On the part of the board this shows a catastrophic misreading of the Bolton Wanderers DNA. We are not about meek surrender and being everybody's fucking patsy.
Evatt out. Now.
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There are only two words I am interested in reading about Bolton Wanderers. Evatt out.
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I'm fed up of the outright nonsense he comes out with. He can prattle on all he wants, he can rely on his flat track bully stats all he wants. He got outwitted by Maloney on Saturday yet again and he's a fucking liability to the football club. There is no longer an argument to the contrary.
While we all feel sore about bleak derby defeats and our continued presence in the third tier of English football, he think he's the next Jurgen Klopp. And Sharon buys it.
When he's long gone we're all still around and those defeats to Wigan (multiple) and Stockport sully our history forever. Get out now before more corrosive damage is done.
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Felt really bleak to read about "the vote of confidence". How much more evidence does Sharon need that this will not work? Clearly she's the only person in the town who doesn't see how lame and pathetic it is when Evatt utters that "we seem to freeze" against Wigan.
Heads in the sand, fail to read the room, fritter away the most incredible surge in support we've had for a lifetime.
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David Cheater
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5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:
Not built in, but about 50m away behind the goal. Hampton by Hilton. Don’t stock enough vodka.
Absolutely rammed with asylum seekers most of the time these days (I live about 20 miles from Oxford an often work there, imagine how much fun that was in May).
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21 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:
I’ve calmed down a bit now, but it still hurts and will continue to do so until we put our record against Wigan right.
That said, there are some pertinent points that have been raised during the aftermath so here is my take on them.
The players that have been recruited (and carefully selected using a lot of data and risk analysis within the context of our available budget) appear to me to have the common theme of having an ability to hurt the opposition going forward on their day - quite a long way from recruiting a rock solid defensive foundation on which to build. Most teams at this level prefer instead to go with “hard to beat” rather than trying to play scintillating attacking football.
Players who can defend solidly or dominate the midfield AND contribute significantly to the attack are beyond our budget so it’s a calculated compromise.
And to be fair to Evatt it’s a compromise that has largely paid off given his record/win percentage.
But it’s a lot easier to stop players playing than it is to create - so we are inevitably going to get stuffed occasionally especially as our defence isn’t made up of experienced defence-minded beasts who can shut the door, track everyone, deal with crosses and work together like a well oiled machine.
Would a new manager be able to get more out of this squad? Or want the job?
Dunno, but there are definitely tweaks that could be made as well as a few key signings that could make a difference.
Like not pumping high balls to our diminutive strikers who need it to feet or to chase. Like more attention to defensive coordination. Like having enough bodies in midfield to prevent us getting passed through and turn defence into attack. Like workrate to close down where necessary and find space when in possession. Like passing and getting shots away quicker. And changing the system although I’m not sure how feasible that is with this squad ATM.
But I assume IE knows this and the January window looms.
If the fans don’t drive him out there is still half a season to put it right and I imagine that where we end up then is what he’ll be judged on, not a defeat against a cocky Bolton wannabe rival.
Re this
We could win three games on the spin against Wigan from here (of which there is no hope with Evatt in charge) and it wouldn't put our record straight
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in Match Threads 24/5
Posted · Edited by paulhanley
Indeed so.
Maybe it's the incredible support they've had that gives the board a false impression of how much latitude they've got. FV saved us and they've (to a large extent correctly) had kid glove treatment from the fanbase for much longer than any of their predecessors in the boadroom. But they've now run out of road. They just don't yet realise it.
As a result of this head in the sand approach they are going to see an escalation of a side to the BWFC fan base they've not yet experienced but which all of us know is there. It's going to be a bitter pill for them and its their own fault.
Home truths need speaking now - in whatever form.
Evatt out.