Johnnyrotten

That season was my first going to games although I wouldn't say I was invested in it, I was happy to go to any games anywhere. But one of my clear memories is discussing the number of goals needed at Bristol Rovers (11 I think) at primary school and we decided it was very doable, all we had to do was pay Bristol Rovers enough to let in that many goals, sorted.

I might have a look at stats tomorrow when I'm less tired 😀 but those 56 games must include cup games, some v kids and reserves, and draws don't seem to count, as you say you can make any argument fit. 2 of the games you're saying we didn't win post-January were against a Prem team!

No problem with agreeing to differ, you have a much lower opinion of Collins and JDB than me, I respect your opinion. Mine is that there is no evidence to say we would have won that game at Derby with our first choice strike force, just as we didn't win plenty other "tougher" games with them. And genuinely not a dig at Charles (who scored some great goals away) or Vic, but neither would have made contact with that cross at Derby, they just don't score them type of goals, the cross would have had to have been low, like for Vic's goals v Fleetwood.

That's how I see it, I don't see how the standard of results at any time of the season have been much different to any other part of the season. Failure to beat the top teams home or away (unless v 10 men for half a game) and generally good results against the rest with the odd shocker thrown in. And still no home defeat for 4 months, compared to 3 by mid December to non promotion contenders. I don't see the difference of having Charles playing at Derby, Wigan & Blackpool - the period that has cost us most - when he wasn't scoring goals against that standard of opponent in the first place. Charles & Vic both played v Orient, Barnsley (home), Northampton etc, 3 relatively recent games which have cost us 2nd spot as much as any. The longer the season goes on, the better our pre-Christmas performances are getting, when not only were the opponents lower in the table, but we only played 9 away before Christmas compared to 12 at home.

I respect that viewpoint, but the difference between the 2 cups for me is that one provides memories without having to get to Wembley and the other can provide excitement in every single round, from the 1st to the semi, even in defeat sometimes (eg I enjoyed our 2 games v Liverpool a few years ago under Lennon). The U21s cup is only worth entering (IMO) if you get to Wembley as a minimum, so 2 teams get a great occasion/memory and 46 other league teams plus some kids play about 200 games that generate next to no interest or excitement for the majority of fans. IMO not worth the hassle and injury risk and I'd love us not to enter it next season if we're in L1.

Its hard to believe they really happened. Being (relatively) young at the time, I thought it would be something I'd be experiencing every 6 or 7 years maybe. But in 100 years+, that will be the only era - 1993/94 ish - where any Bolton fan will have witnessed two FA Cup games against Prem giants, home and away and knocking them out, under the lights. This isn't a surprise but its still a sad day.

You've probably answered my question above, if his strengths are to get chances for him in and around the 6 yard box (not unlike Charles although he probably creates more for himself generally). I would have thought that's what we try to do don't we? The wingbacks, especially Cogley, base their game on getting to or near the bi-line and rolling it across goal or picking out an oncoming attacker. Ideally that's what Vic feeds off surely.

Genuine question, not having a dig at Vic, but what do you mean by his strengths? In what way don't we play to them?

We've scored a small number of headers - Toal and Ashworth spring to mind from open play, Iredale, Vic & Toal from corners - but I'm fairly sure the header from Collins was the first by a striker this season from open play. I don't care how they go in but I feel its a skill we've been lacking for a while. The only other two headers I can recall from open play, by a striker, were Bod's excellent efforts at Pompey and Derby. I can't say any spring to mind from last season either.

And between August and mid April he's literally been in every squad for every league and cup game (maybe missed a very occasional one but I can't recall?), when everyone else has been rested or injured, the only one that comes close to being consistently available is JDC. Having a long term injury last season is no different to Toal, Johnstone, Dempsey, Sheehan, Dan, Vic, CMG the list goes on. Now missing a couple of weeks same as Santos, Jones, Baxter, Williams, Taylor, Ashworth etc, I'm just unsure of the difference.

We haven't lost many at home, but Carlisle's 2 game changing goals were both from this. Their 2nd pen that they scored, and their 2nd goal, both from corners that came to their unmarked players, resulting in a pen and then a 20 yarder deflected into top corner.

That's got to be inaccurate, IE does it regularly, and other teams do too, not just once or twice a game, but 6 or 7 times. Its a tactic to mark the space not the man. Its not like the corners are taken quickly, we can all go for a brew in the time it takes a player to walk over, put his hands up, replace the ball, the players have a grapple, the ref tells them to stop, etc etc - its not an accident that players are left unmarked on the edge, its clearly an instruction, just as not leaving anyone near the halfway line is.

I felt sorry for Forrester in a way, the CB role on the right of a 3 is basically a right back position, that's why Jones looks comfortable there, he's a full back all day long, never a CB. Forrester is a CB, never a right back. Imagine if Santos was asked to play that role, he'd be a fish out of water, as good as he is. If we were defending much of the game eg Barnsley away or holding onto a lead like at Port Vale, Forrester shows his strength. He's never going to be the overlapping full back bombing on like Jones, simply out of position in a game where we have 80% possession or whatever (2nd half) and the opposition sit deep. No need for 3 CBs in that 2nd half, and the Shrewsbury boss knew that.

This isn't just a comment on us but on a number of teams, but I find it puzzling when managers openly pin their colours to the mast of one system and one system only. 5 at the back come hell or high water. Irrespective of who's available to play, who the opposition is, what the score is, who's having a bit of a nightmare on the day, and simply playing into the hands of the opposition who know exactly what you're going to do. How would Shrewsbury have reacted last night if we'd kicked off and changed to 4-4-2, or at least changed to that at H-T? Make it a bit harder, not a bit easier, for the opposition occasionally.

I like JDB too and accept he doesn't always play well (like every striker we have) but how is he a sicknote? Injured last night but not sure when that last happened. Charles, Dan, Vic, Santos etc all sick notes this season in comparison to Bod.