TM Trotter
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Posts posted by TM Trotter
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1 hour ago, paulhanley said:
It doesn't change the referendum result.
I'm sure you get irritated every time you are reminded of that simple fact.
So here it is again. Just to add extra piquancy ... its from the BBC website.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
You can suck it up, inhale it, chew it or do what you want with it. It isn't changing. We voted to leave the EU.
Amazing insight.
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1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:
There is not a precedent for this judgement, proroguing was never illegal. Why is it now? I have to ask that question and I come up with 1 conclusion, political motivation.
Perhaps it would be better to respond to you in the same vein as a typical militant Leaver:
11-0, that's democracy, suck it up snowflake 🇬🇧
Irritating, isn't it?
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Just now, Mounts Kipper said:
Don’t know how it would go, but it needs to happen so that the people’s opinion is heard, whether MPs will act on it is another matter it seems.
You might say it is a bit difficult for MPs to act on anything when we're in an age where the Prime Minister is happy to illegally silence parliamentary debate to achieve his own political ambition?
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3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:
I don’t agree that he broke the law, there is no doubt the Supreme Court decision was politically motivated. We need an election so the people can speak.
That reads suspiciously like 'something has happened which doesn't meet my world-view, therefore it must be a conspiracy'.
However, I agree that we need an election. Out of interest, how do you think it would go? Personally, I couldn't see anything other than a hung parliament... and we're back to square one.
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8 hours ago, Mannyroader said:
The league position of the team might not be of as much importance to the owners as we might think. The team can cut it's cloth according to where it lands, e.g. League 2 wages paid if in League 2.
If Rod Stewart or Pink Floyd play a concert at the stadium, it really does not matter what league the team is in. The same argument would apply for conferences, exhibitions, etc. held at the stadium.
A sustainable plan for 2 years was given to the Administrators and they seemed to be satisfied with it. I live on the other side of the world and have no financial input to the club anymore. If my money was being spent by the owners I would like to know how it is going to be spent in general terms.
I might be wrong, but I seem to remember the figure of £40,000 profit from the summer concerts being in one of the documents that was shared on the takeover thread. That would pay the salary of our current back four for about a month.
While a nice bonus, I don't believe summer concerts will be central to FV's financial plan, especially in comparison to the league the club is playing in.
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Still can't get over how exciting that game was. We definitely rode our luck at times (thought there was a stonewall pen earlier on in the second half, and their strikers would have buried a couple on another day) but to be honest, we've had none of that for yonks.
Really, really encouraging all round. I agree with the general sentiment that staying up with the points deduction (and no doubt more to come) will be nigh on impossible, but isn't it just nice to have a bit of optimism and belief around the club again?
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On 21/09/2019 at 22:16, marple whites said:
Won 6-0 away at Lincoln today !!
Couldn't quite believe that result - really does add to the case for cautious optimism for this season. Sure, Lincoln have just lost the Cowleys, but really, on their Tuesday showing, Oxford are nothing special.
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14 minutes ago, Ani said:
You have not proved anything. Saying you do not agree and questioning the numbers is hardly proof.
Come, now. Surely you must know that if you shout your belief loudly enough without any semblance of evidence, it counts as proof.
Isn't that how discourse works in 2019?
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2 hours ago, bolty58 said:
TBF, I think almost every fucker's sick of something connected with Brexit.
Needs to get done then everybody can concentrate on other things.
Love Boris or hate him, this has been his main thrust.
Can't argue with that.
It really does feel like the shitstorm BWFC went through recently. Everyone, with any opinion, just hoping for it to be over one way or another so we can get back to more important matters like yelling 'Bollocks' at a referee for 90 minutes a week.
Can't help but think that these 'other things' we need to get on with as a country will always have Brexit somewhere involved in the discussion. Sadly, this isn't going to go away, and conversations are going to be as bipartisan as they have for the past three years.
Hurray... 😒
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4 hours ago, Moon boy said:
‘The psychological profile of over 40 million targeted British users’ , on Facebook? out of a population of 65million? Really?
Fake News?
Jesus wept.
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5 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:
Priceless.
You really do give yourself away far too easily.
Blocked now Dumbo.
I understand you're a respected member on here, but stop.
You're sounding like one of the conspiracy theorist loons on the BN comments section.
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You really are tapped pal 😂
I have no idea who you think I am. Have a lie down.
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3 hours ago, miamiwhite said:
Oh dear, your mask is slipping Lone Ranger.
Did you see the link re the remainers being fined the other day for breaking the laws ?
Silent on that little beauty aren’t you, just like the others who lost their tongue to Felix ?
Pathetic, the lot of you.
Collusion between two bodies arguing the same cause in the same referendum, while wrong, is dramatically different to allowing influence from another country in British politics.
But then, noting the drivel you read in the Express and Telegraph, why am I not surprised that you can't see the difference?
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7 hours ago, miamiwhite said:
Doesn’t want to ? Haha....you are priceless and so biased.
Why doesn’t she want to ? Go on, explain that.
Quite simply really isn’t it for normal folk ? She doesn’t want to impact on her lifestyle.
Go on, admit it fella, make our day.
I suppose she could always do what Arron Banks did, and go to the Russians to fund her political action.
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14 hours ago, wackerchackers said:
Off to The Somme for 4 days next Friday. WW1 battlefield walking, Thiepval Memorial to the missing, Newfoundland Park, Lochnagar crater etc.
It should be alreet.
Staying at this place. http://www.chavasseferme.co.uk/index.php
Might be a bit out of your way, but the nightly Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate in Ypres is unforgettable.
If you get chance, perhaps visit a German cemetery. Rather than the white crosses for the French/British soldiers, the one I visited was row upon row of black stones. Harrowing in its own way.
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I have recently come back from a 2 week rail/road tour of Tuscany/Liguria with the missus (Genoa, Bologna, Florence, Tuscan countryside, Cinque Terre). Italy is a staggeringly beautiful place, even if its drivers are maniacs.
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20 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:
And be happy languishing in lower leagues.
Hopefully the new owners don't feel the same way.
All clubs suffer drops in crowds when they go down. Nothing new and won't change.
Getting all pious and self righteous won't make it any different.
Where were the hardcore we have now, when we were getting 4000 at Burnden in the 80s?
If things get better on the pitch and we start going in the right direction, crowds will increase and that's a good thing.
Fair.
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9 minutes ago, Casino said:
its not cheap, though, agreed
however it wouldnt be cheap in the prem either, and i reckon we'd have over 15k bolton on
Sadly, i think too many heads have been turned away after years of the match becoming a chore. For a lot of our 'fairweather' supporters, one 0-0 against Oxford United isn't going to entice them back, no matter how much we all sing the praises of the side last night.
Happens to us all. Look at Sunderland, they've lost 15k off their attendances since dropping out of the Prem. Seemingly, so many supporters of fallen 'giants' (I'm deliberately letting that word work harder than it should) would rather watch the likes of West Ham v Southampton on TV because it is 'higher quality' football than they've been spoiled with. To be honest, as good as their extra £20 might be, we don't need people like that because they'll add to our already large contingent of moaners.
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56 minutes ago, Steejay said:
Well, he must be starving poor lad.
Not seen any herd of wildebeestes around the stadium for ages...😁
Skinny Lofty needs to get himself down Bradshawgate on a Friday night - plenty of wildebeest roaming there! 😉
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42 minutes ago, Ani said:
A very good night.
This Will Buckley seems a lot better than the one we had last year.
The Stoke lad very good but tired, thought he was still more of a threat than Politic so was surprised by the sub.
Lowe and Bridcutt could make a good midfield 2. Ginger from Doncaster had a good game too.
The defence need more experience together but promising signs.
The ref only booked dives in the second half. Trying to buy a pie was a nightmare. But home by 11.
If we improve at the same as we have since Saturday for rest of season we will win FA Cup.
Great support and good to see so many stay at the end.
100%. It was also telling that so few went down for an early pint at 35-40 minutes - the applause at the half time whistle was fantastic. As others have said, the bug, the feel good factor... I think it's back.
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That was superb, so promising. What an excellent first half, how we went in level I don't know!
Was very impressed with Crawford, pinging wonderful through balls that others (and some of our fans shouted for) would have passed to nowhere if they went earlier. Jury is still out on Emmanuel for me, looks like he's running through custard half the time. Thought Buckley did very well in the first half, he looked fucked by about 70 minutes. Probably the hardest he has worked in a white shirt.
Lots and lots of positives. Really excited for the Sunderland game now.
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8 hours ago, bolty58 said:
So you don't accept the premise that campaigning to Stop Brexit when the referendum result has not been enacted is anti-democratic?
Righto, I'll file you under 'Z' with other zoons off here who just cannot (or will not) see the damage that will do to our entire political system.
It won't happen but just imagine if those treacherous centrist dogs won an election and became the majority party or even government. What would then happen if the other parties just said "Nope, we are not accepting the result of that election based on your own precedent set when you ignored the 2016 referendum result"?
A note which makes a huge difference to your point: the EU Referendum Act 2015 made no provision for the result to be legally binding on the government, or on any future government.
Madness not to implement the will of the people expressed in a democratic vote as the LibDem's very own grandee Mr. Paddy Ashdown said at the time of the referendum.
Politically, I accept we can't stop Brexit. It's going to happen. I think that's me adhering to the typical immature gloating Leaver request of 'Suck it up, buttercup'.
However, the government blindly walking off a cliff just because the people voted for 'it' (even if most couldn't tell you what the implications of 'it' are) would be, while 'democratic', also highly fucking irresponsible.
I'd wager that a Brexit with a good deal for the country would be tolerable for most remoaners/losers/sheep/whatever childish name Aaron Banks has told Leavers to use this week. The trouble is, other than isolationist rhetoric around keeping En-ger-land for the Engerlish, there are no proven benefits for the country. We're leaping off into the complete unknown because 'the will of the people' suggested it in an event that was as legally binding as flipping 30 million coins. The government is duty bound to protect the interests of the people it serves, and is doing so by challenging (not necessarily halting) the Brexit issue. That is, until Johnson forced the undemocratic closure of Parliament... Gotta love that democratic sovereignty we're retaining!
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2 hours ago, Duck Egg said:
Not trying to point score or owt here but is it possible that Fox, Redwood and Davis may have all been correct if the UK had accepted the result of the referendum and presented a united front to the EU?
May, and now Johnson, have gone into every round of discussion, with the EU knowing that our parliament and a significant chunk of ours populace are doing everything within their power to prevent any deal or us leaving.
Yes, I agree. A united front would definitely have stood us in a better stead at the negotiating table to leave, perhaps saving a fair few quid on the 'divorce bill'.
But then we'd be in the same place, with non-financial hurdles such as the Irish backstop in the way, and perhaps the notion that we, as Brits, should always get more. May negotiated a deal but it was shot down in parliament - as a nation, we always expect the absolute best situation and others to doff their caps to us because we've been spoiled for centuries on the global stage.
Joining you in hypothesis, who's to say that as a united front, we'd get a deal with the EU, much better than we got a few months back, but then party politics / public backlash would dictate that no, we still want to leave with absolutely no negotiation, no quarter, no surrender.
A good debate point, but unfortunately, that ship sailed the very moment Cameron sanctioned a referendum.
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22 minutes ago, Moon boy said:
Is it a mess because we’ve not left yet or a mess because we want to leave?
This is the overarching issue I have with Brexit. Everything to do with the whole affair is presented as a binary, when there are so many different interwoven strands to discuss, that are on a sliding scale. THAT is the 'mess' - it is such a politically, economically and emotionally complex beast, that to boil it down to a black/white binary (see the general Leaver sentiment of 'out means out') is monumentally ignorant at best.
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Couple of points to the response to my previous post (I haven't worked out how to multi-quote on my phone):
I said Europeans are mocking us - Find a national newspaper from any of the member states and look for a recent article on Brexit. Here are three, from Der Spiegel, Le Monde and El Pais. https://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/boris-johnson-wants-brexit-at-any-price-a-1285550.html
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/13/ideas/1568372806_518859.html
Look at the language, the caricatures, their complete disrespect towards Johnson; they are either taking the piss or have pity on us - they are seemingly incredulous that we're actually going to something so potentially self-destructive under the guise of 'taking back control' as a democratic nation (while under the leadership of a man with an electoral mandate that could fit in Wembley Stadium.)
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Miami White said:
America, India etc will do business with us, they’ve all already said that.
I would never dispute that, yes, of course they will! But my God, it will be on their terms - because what other option do we have, once we've stopping trading on favourable terms with EASILY our biggest trade partner, and as a small part of the biggest trading bloc in the world?
Do you, think the rest of the major global economies are going to:
A: Roll over and play to the tune of a standalone country that has just thrown away 88% of its comparative bargaining power (comparing EU 27 GDP with the UK alone), perhaps just out of tradition, because the UK once, long ago, used to be the major global player, and it would be lovely to have Rule Britannia played by army bands in every time zone again.
Or
B: Circle like vultures over post-Brexit Britain, and impose whatever trade terms they want, for the economic benefit of their own countries?
Global economics dictates that in this instance, there isn't a sliding scale. We'll be a 'great trade partner' in the same way that there was a transaction of sorts when Tranmere and Ipswich played our knackered kids - for them, it was nothing more than an easy opportunity to bump up their GD.
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21 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:
I think you’re trying too hard to reinvent yourself after your previous name was torn to shreds.
I think you have me mixed up with someone else.
I've only ever had one name on this forum. Long-time lurker, medium-term member, relatively new poster.
Politics
in Behind The Stands
Posted
While I agree with everything you've put there, with a long term view of someone like the Lib Dems getting in (a massive massive long shot), digressing slightly, does every political movement then not simply become part of the bigger Brexit picture? 'We are forced into Decision X because of the social impact of Brexit on modern democracy'. 'We have to pass Motion Y because of the economic challenge of Brexit'.
How can we hope to progress as a country when future (medium term) governments are hamstrung, one way or another, by the lingering residue of this whole poisonous mess?
The political implications of ANYTHING relating to Brexit are massive, and the country will still be feeling the effects of this after we're long dead. Hurray!
#projectfear 🤫