Retain/Release?

[RoadRunnerFan]

9 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I wince a little bit every time someone posts their usernames just in case they're reading and it summons them

Haha it won't be just you wincing Aldo. 

I deliberately only used the @ function for W63 and changed the spellings from the correct ones for this very reason. 

[Traf]

16 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Reasonably low.

So, you're either skirting the issue or you don't really know the figure.

As you've very little form on here for dodging answers, I'll assume that like the rest of us, you're not sure what the true debt level is.

 

[barryk32]

56 minutes ago, Traf said:

So, you're either skirting the issue or you don't really know the figure.

As you've very little form on here for dodging answers, I'll assume that like the rest of us, you're not sure what the true debt level is.

 

Its reasonably low

[Dr. Feelgood]

2 hours ago, Traf said:

So, you're either skirting the issue or you don't really know the figure.

As you've very little form on here for dodging answers, I'll assume that like the rest of us, you're not sure what the true debt level is.
 

Of course I don't fckg now. However it's clear as day that while we're hardly rolling in cash we have, relative to our dark days and relative to many other clubs debts which are "reasonably low".

My original point was that, as opposed to the time ED & Gartside were trying to find buyers, we would now be a  more viable prospect ... not least because our debts are 'reasonably low'.

[Casino]

Maybe relatively low would be an agreeable term

[Dr. Feelgood]

35 minutes ago, Casino said:

Maybe relatively low would be an agreeable term

If you must.

[Wanderlust]

Turning into Nuts this thread. None of us know what the balance sheet looks like currently, but there are some clues in the general strategy of investing the bond money in infrastructure, medium - and perhaps astute - investment in squad/B team,  the focus on community engagement etc.To me it looks like putting the club in the shop window, ripe for sale etc.

Frankly any attempt to stay in the Championship or push on from there would require a whole new level of dosh, beyond the means of FV - who to be fair have done an incredible job of turning a basket case into what appears to be an investable opportunity.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

If you must.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bolton-accounts-kieran-maguire-analysis-24426373

Previously over £30m, some paid back, some converted to shares.

This chap seems to think we're in reasonable shape, and we've had more share issues since.

I reckon "reasonable" is reasonable.

[Traf]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bolton-accounts-kieran-maguire-analysis-24426373

Previously over £30m, some paid back, some converted to shares.

This chap seems to think we're in reasonable shape, and we've had more share issues since.

I reckon "reasonable" is reasonable.

Each to their own, of course, but £30m after owning the club for a year isn't reasonable to me.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

Each to their own, of course, but £30m after owning the club for a year isn't reasonable to me.

Eh?

Sorry, that beggars belief.

The money used to buy the club needed to be protected- it wasn't a gift. FV aren't so wealthy as to be able to throw away tens of millions. Neither is it how they function as a responsible group.

There was no one else, with deeper pockets, prepared to chuck money away.

Since the purchase, that debt has been hugely reduced. All the more impressive given the pandemic, and the fact we had no gate income. They were the only club owners to succeed with the government loan application at the time.

Not sure what you were expecting: they never claimed to have loads to chuck at the club, and have always said they wanted to get us on to a sustainable platform.

We couldn't have wished for a more professional, respectful, and friendly folk.

[Dr. Feelgood]

I wish I'd not started this now.

We ARE in a vastly better place than at our nadir, we've been responsibly run by trustworthy people.

Virtually no club is making a profit but we're now in better shape & better hands than most.

There's a long way to go.

[Traf]

18 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Eh?

Sorry, that beggars belief.

The money used to buy the club needed to be protected- it wasn't a gift. FV aren't so wealthy as to be able to throw away tens of millions. Neither is it how they function as a responsible group.

There was no one else, with deeper pockets, prepared to chuck money away.

Since the purchase, that debt has been hugely reduced. All the more impressive given the pandemic, and the fact we had no gate income. They were the only club owners to succeed with the government loan application at the time.

Not sure what you were expecting: they never claimed to have loads to chuck at the club, and have always said they wanted to get us on to a sustainable platform.

We couldn't have wished for a more professional, respectful, and friendly folk.

Go on, I'll bite, I've got a spare 5 minutes.

I'm old school and believe that you only buy stuff you can afford.

If FV didn't have £25m to buy club without turning it into a club debt, then maybe they shouldn't have been buying the club.

Has the actual debt really been hugely reduced or have some smoke & mirrors been used to make it look like something else. 

How many clubs applied for the government debt loan?

And yes, they're lovely people, I'll give you that one.

But they're not putting any money in, but were happy to ask us fans to invest.

[Cheese]

18 minutes ago, Traf said:

Go on, I'll bite, I've got a spare 5 minutes.

I'm old school and believe that you only buy stuff you can afford.

If FV didn't have £25m to buy club without turning it into a club debt, then maybe they shouldn't have been buying the club.

Has the actual debt really been hugely reduced or have some smoke & mirrors been used to make it look like something else. 

How many clubs applied for the government debt loan?

And yes, they're lovely people, I'll give you that one.

But they're not putting any money in, but were happy to ask us fans to invest.

So you'd have preferred the alternative?

[Casino]

there wasn't an alternative

[Traf]

43 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you'd have preferred the alternative?

Show me on the doll where he touched you where I said that?

[Whitesince63]

Well excuse me but surely if we go up the income also goes up so I don’t really understand where this concern that FV can’t afford to fund us in there is coming from. I recall not long ago Sheffield United getting to the PL with many of the players they had in L1 so who’s to say we can’t do the same? Of course we’d have to add a few but I think there are very few of our current best eleven that couldn’t hold their own in the Championship and then it’s down to IE and CM to find some nuggets to help us compete there. This club doesn’t have a right to be anywhere but surely given our stadium, fan base and commercial ventures we can generate as much if not more than most other clubs in there and certainly more than any of our neighbours.

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Casino said:

there wasn't an alternative

There was.

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Traf said:

Show me on the doll where he touched you where I said that?

It was a question.

[Traf]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It was a question.

It was an irrelevant one.

Irrespective of whether or not there was an alternative option available to us, I don't need to be happy about about a £30m incurred in year 1.

[Cheese]

Just now, Traf said:

It was an irrelevant one.

Irrespective of whether or not there was an alternative option available to us, I don't need to be happy about about a £30m incurred in year 1.

It's not irrelevant. Of course you don't "need to be happy" about anything, but surely you're happier that we exist rather than the alternative?

[Traf]

19 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It's not irrelevant. Of course you don't "need to be happy" about anything, but surely you're happier that we exist rather than the alternative?

But that wasn't the topic of discussion, was it?

There was a suggestion that our debt was reasonably low and we should be happy about it.
I wanted to know what was classed as reasonable and a figure of £30m in 2021 was bandied about.
That's a figure I'm not happy with.

Had the topic been "Are you happy we still exist?", then yes, I'm happy.

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

But that wasn't the topic of discussion, was it?

There was a suggestion that our debt was reasonably low and we should be happy about it.
I wanted to know what was classed as reasonable and a figure of £30m in 2021 was bandied about.
That's a figure I'm not happy with.

Had the topic been "Are you happy we still exist?", then yes, I'm happy.

That's all that matters. 👍

[tomski]

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Well excuse me but surely if we go up the income also goes up so I don’t really understand where this concern that FV can’t afford to fund us in there is coming from. I recall not long ago Sheffield United getting to the PL with many of the players they had in L1 so who’s to say we can’t do the same? Of course we’d have to add a few but I think there are very few of our current best eleven that couldn’t hold their own in the Championship and then it’s down to IE and CM to find some nuggets to help us compete there. This club doesn’t have a right to be anywhere but surely given our stadium, fan base and commercial ventures we can generate as much if not more than most other clubs in there and certainly more than any of our neighbours.

No one knows is the reality. 

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

There was.

not one i wish to think about

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

there wasn't an alternative

Precisely. 

Anyway, as for Traf's idea you only buy things you can afford: well good-bye to mortgages, loans, and general business management. 

That's not how it works until a business is profitable and cash rich. Even then, investing in another business doesn't have to mean chucking away your hard earned, but utilising your experience and successes to achieve the same again.

Essentially the same thing as the Brighton chap did, although they are perhaps in a better position to carry more debt.

We have gone the other way, and are reducing that debt, and are starting to make money.

As for other people putting money in: it is an investment which has a risk, which is precisely the same as FV have done. If the whole project had gone tits up, then they would still lose with no guarantees of getting their money back.

Moreover, just like with FV initially, it's completely voluntary.