Derby County (H)

[Spider]

29 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Just because we won does not make him right, we regressed substantially after he made the subs to the point we were hanging on against 10 men.  

If the keeper runs 80 yards to join the attack, then technically we’re hanging on against ten outfield players.

It happens.

People forget sometimes that there is another team on the pitch that also want a kick of the ball.

Hence why being in possession of the ball is rather important 

[only1swanny]

Victor's like a different player compared to last year, 

6 games 4 goals for him isn't it?

Charles is 5 in 6? 

Damn impressive start, amd yet the noisy lot online are still wanting VA dropped.. 

Think that both DN and CJ seem to be struggling off the mark makes it a but more frustrating.  

[Arrested development]

I think we saw again yesterday when derby went down to 10 men, and they sat in deep, it's very hard to break down. Im not sure what the answer is because it's hard to play though them and it's difficult to go round them . When we play teams from the bottom half of table, we struggle against that type of game plan. 

I think we maybe need to be less precise and be willing to shoot from the edge of the box a bit more in the build up play, but it had to be the right player shooting. Too many times yesterday it was rico or toal having the space to shoot and not Sheehan or another midfielder etc. 

Deffo think they need to come up with a better plan for when teams just sit in because we don't create enough chances against that type of system. 

[Dr. Feelgood]

We'd just lost very badly to Wigan, drawn against Burton & our blistering early results were in danger of being swept aside.

We were playing a big team with a history of beating us.

I expected it to be a very tricky one & feared a draw, even a defeat.

We won. I'll take that every weekend.

[tomski]

Still buzzing on yesterday. Seeing the derby fans (with their boring accents) go home crying, is what I’m in for!

[radcliffe white]

3 minutes ago, tomski said:

Still buzzing on yesterday. Seeing the derby fans (with their boring accents) go home crying, is what I’m in for!

Just after I passed you some were getting upset outside the hotel 

[tomski]

18 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

Just after I passed you some were getting upset outside the hotel 

Proper mardarses. One chap had bought the slit throat gesture back to life. Been a long time since I’ve seen such dedication

[ianofcleveleys]

9 hours ago, desperado said:

Great win. Really happy with that today.

But I am going to have a little moan.

Why when we lose/draw does Evatt come in for extreme criticism, but when we win it’s seems like it’s in-spite of him? 

I’ve not scrutinised every post match comment, but I don’t think I’ve read anything along the lines of:

- he got the starting selection spot on

- he was really praiseworthy of the fans in his post match interview

- he set the team up well to tactically deal with a strong promotion challenging team

- he found the right combinations across the park to address the physical weaknesses that were evident against Wigan

- how he mentally prepared the players to distance themselves from any negativities this week and start the game really positively, making a bold statement that we are a team to be feared this season.

Yes there’s some positive comments about the players but Evatt’s not really getting much praise. 

If anything I’m reading more about how bad things could have been because of Evatt; the subs, not creating enough chances, not shooting enough, not getting enough crosses in, (he actually talks about he didn’t want this happening in his post match comments).

If we’d have lost I have a feeling the criticism would have far outweighed any praise he’s due when we win. 

Large volumes of the crowd made a clear, loud statement they were behind him from the off and again later in the game. He acknowledged it afterwards 

He set the team up differently to get more out of Sheehan higher up the pitch, it worked well

Dacres-Cogley, a summer signing, did well again and looks a good find

We had a bit more answer to the physicality issue with Toal and Thomason in the side but still no answer to the issue of letting crosses come in too easily and being woeful at defending them, an issue going back to even the early moments of the Fleetwood game.

The sending off changed the game in that, from that moment I didn't think we'd lose it, more how could we find a way to win it. Within 5 minutes the pattern was set and we were into a script seen so often previously and one we've struggled with. We got lucky at a time when we were making our usual heavy weather of it. 

The rash of subs were questionable, made almost as though the game was done, we lost our grip on the game and allowed the last 10 plus injury time to become an unnecessary mess. CMG at RWB was a risk and why JDB got zero minutes I've no idea. 

So, more aspects of yesterday to be positive about Evatt for than not, but still some that he didn't get right. He has a stubborn belief in a certain way (a laudable way) of doing things being the one that wins out in the end. That's fine, and I applaud it,  but it'll still mean there are times when people's praise may be qualified or that people will have good reason to question him. 

 

[gonzo]

10 hours ago, desperado said:

Great win. Really happy with that today.

But I am going to have a little moan.

Why when we lose/draw does Evatt come in for extreme criticism, but when we win it’s seems like it’s in-spite of him? 

I’ve not scrutinised every post match comment, but I don’t think I’ve read anything along the lines of:

- he got the starting selection spot on

- he was really praiseworthy of the fans in his post match interview

- he set the team up well to tactically deal with a strong promotion challenging team

- he found the right combinations across the park to address the physical weaknesses that were evident against Wigan

- how he mentally prepared the players to distance themselves from any negativities this week and start the game really positively, making a bold statement that we are a team to be feared this season.

Yes there’s some positive comments about the players but Evatt’s not really getting much praise. 

If anything I’m reading more about how bad things could have been because of Evatt; the subs, not creating enough chances, not shooting enough, not getting enough crosses in, (he actually talks about he didn’t want this happening in his post match comments).

If we’d have lost I have a feeling the criticism would have far outweighed any praise he’s due when we win. 

I get what you're saying but this place and social media is a far cry from most peoples balanced views that the bloke is doing a pretty good job. 

Hes had nothing but backing from our match going support, we sang his name for the whole first half and the same happens at every away.

By the time you reach this gaff you're into micro analysis and everything becomes polarised. 

Evatt played a blinder yesterday, had the team bang up for it and the fans responded and to be fair the fans were well behind him from the off.

Certainly wouldn't be coming on here or anywhere else for a balanced view. Exaclty why the club and staff should stay clear off all social media, its just not a proper representation.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

18 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Large volumes of the crowd made a clear, loud statement they were behind him from the off and again later in the game. He acknowledged it afterwards 

He set the team up differently to get more out of Sheehan higher up the pitch, it worked well

Dacres-Cogley, a summer signing, did well again and looks a good find

We had a bit more answer to the physicality issue with Toal and Thomason in the side but still no answer to the issue of letting crosses come in too easily and being woeful at defending them, an issue going back to even the early moments of the Fleetwood game.

The sending off changed the game in that, from that moment I didn't think we'd lose it, more how could we find a way to win it. Within 5 minutes the pattern was set and we were into a script seen so often previously and one we've struggled with. We got lucky at a time when we were making our usual heavy weather of it. 

The rash of subs were questionable, made almost as though the game was done, we lost our grip on the game and allowed the last 10 plus injury time to become an unnecessary mess. CMG at RWB was a risk and why JDB got zero minutes I've no idea. 

So, more aspects of yesterday to be positive about Evatt for than not, but still some that he didn't get right. He has a stubborn belief in a certain way (a laudable way) of doing things being the one that wins out in the end. That's fine, and I applaud it,  but it'll still mean there are times when people's praise may be qualified or that people will have good reason to question him. 

 

A good post

[Wanderlust]

3 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

I thought Bolton's most important player was Thomasson.His strength and aggression was the difference between Bolton competing in midfield and losing  the battle as they did against Wigan.On that showing Thomasson needs to be the first midfielder picked against the bigger clubs because without George's aggression Sheehan doesn't get the ball enough to produce his 8/10 performance.

He was brilliant yesterday and is definitely improving game by game. I was in the camp of us buying in a midfield beast in the transfer window but I think IE sees George as one who will develop into that role. For the most part he was winning the ball and playing simple progressive passes (often to Sheehan) but he does possess a killer pass and has a shot on on him so he's becoming a dangerous player. As long as he stays focused and doesn't make dangerous passes near our goal - which he has been guilty of in the past  - he could be an outstanding player for us and yesterday his decision making was excellent. No wonder IE convinced him to turn down the big money move.

He's one of several players in the squad who are not quite the finished product yet but have been bought for their potential. I know some folk are frustrated with the likes of CMG but it's still early in the season and they need competitive game time to improve - whereas fans want results now so some of the substitutions are questioned, but we have to risk them to progress in the longer term. The only one of the younger talent crop who I worry about is Dan because although he's already a nuisance, is athletic and works his socks off, I just don't see the natural skill that the other prospects have. He seems to get the tactical positional side of the game but his technical skills will need a lot of work.

[Traf]

As I said a couple of weeks ago...
The key this season is to do as well or better than we did in games last season/time we played.

Last season we beat Lincoln 2-0, 3-0 this season
Cheltenham (A) was 0-1 last season, 3-0 this
Fleetwood (H) 2-0 to 3-1
Wigan (H) was 0-4 last time we played them and 0-4 again this time
Burton (A) 1-1 both seasons
Derby (H) 0-0 last season, 2-1 yesterday

So we've converted 8pts into 13pts so far and that's progress.
 

[Wanderlust]

2 hours ago, Arrested development said:

I think we saw again yesterday when derby went down to 10 men, and they sat in deep, it's very hard to break down. Im not sure what the answer is because it's hard to play though them and it's difficult to go round them . When we play teams from the bottom half of table, we struggle against that type of game plan. 

I think we maybe need to be less precise and be willing to shoot from the edge of the box a bit more in the build up play, but it had to be the right player shooting. Too many times yesterday it was rico or toal having the space to shoot and not Sheehan or another midfielder etc. 

Deffo think they need to come up with a better plan for when teams just sit in because we don't create enough chances against that type of system. 

Well at least we demonstrated what not to do yesterday.

The two obvious things I saw in the game were..

Don't float high crosses into a box packed with huge defenders. Nelson was having that all day long and yet we didn't change it up. We created tons of crossing opportunities but we should have been drilling it low and hard into the box with staggered runners coming on to the ball to provide options. Or shooting and looking for scraps. Or switching the angle more centrally for someone else to have a dig. But floating it over from wide was a total waste of opportunities.

Stop Santos from playing central pivot in high attacking positions. His distribution is great when we're deep but when we compress them into their final third he's pants at it. Whoever is just outside their box in the middle trying to pick out runs and final passes also needs to offer a shooting threat and Santos either can't or won't so it makes it easier to mark everyone up because they know there's no need to block the shot. Plus he tends to get overexcited and commit too far forward so leaves us open to the quick counterattack and on a couple of occasions yesterday when Derby broke I was convinced the ref was going to send him off for dragging their attackers back - sometimes refs look for a reason to even the sides up after a sending off.

Perhaps when we're compressing their box Santos should take up a slightly deeper position to one side or the other and let George, Josh or Kyle play centrally?

Alternatively, totally commit him forward to cause chaos in the box and drop someone with pace to cover counterattacks?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Wanderlust

[Traf]

4 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Well at least we demonstrated what not to do yesterday.

The two obvious things I saw in the game were..

Don't float high crosses into a box packed with huge defenders. Nelson was having that all day long and yet we didn't change it up. We created tons of crossing opportunities but we should have been drilling it low and hard into the box with staggered runners coming on to the ball to provide options. Or shooting and looking for scraps. Or switching the angle more centrally for someone else to have a dig. But floating it over from wide was a total waste of opportunities.

Stop Santos from playing central pivot in high attacking positions. His distribution is great when we're deep but when we compress them into their final third he's pants at it. Whoever is just outside their box in the middle trying to pick out runs and final passes also needs to offer a shooting threat and Santos either can't or won't so it makes it easier to mark everyone up because they know there's no need to block the shot. Plus he tends to get overexcited and commit too far forward so leaves us open to the quick counterattack and on a couple of occasions yesterday when Derby broke I was convinced the ref was going to send him off for dragging their attackers back - sometimes refs look for a reason to even the sides up after a sending off.

Perhaps when we're compressing their box Santos should take up a slightly deeper position to one side or the other and let George, Josh or Kyle play centrally?

Alternatively, totally commit him forward to cause chaos in the box and drop someone with pace to cover counterattacks?

Yeah, that floaty cross is just a waste of time.

And I agree with Santos getting in the way upfront. At one point, he and Thomason were just passing to each other on the edge of the box with neither seeming to know what to do with it and both unwilling to have a shot and the next thing you know, we've given it away and Derby were breaking.

Another thing, last 10 mins, you knew Derby would throw everything at us. We've an extra man, why not leave one or two upfield when they have a corner? Two fastest players could stand wide right and wide left and they'd need three back to cover them. The penalty box becomes less congested and should then be easier to defend.

[Wanderlust]

15 minutes ago, Traf said:

Yeah, that floaty cross is just a waste of time.

And I agree with Santos getting in the way upfront. At one point, he and Thomason were just passing to each other on the edge of the box with neither seeming to know what to do with it and both unwilling to have a shot and the next thing you know, we've given it away and Derby were breaking.

Another thing, last 10 mins, you knew Derby would throw everything at us. We've an extra man, why not leave one or two upfield when they have a corner? Two fastest players could stand wide right and wide left and they'd need three back to cover them. The penalty box becomes less congested and should then be easier to defend.

Santos was driving me bonkers when we were camped on the edge of their box. I think I remember the incident you mention when Thomo laid it off perfectly to Santos for a shot and I was screaming "Hit it!" - and Santos tapped it back to him. I think Thomo was as shocked as I was.

We certainly need an outball when we're under the cosh. We defended the box pretty well (although there were a few penalty scares) but there were too many times when we cleared it straight to their players and back it came.

[Dr. Feelgood]

48 minutes ago, Traf said:

why not leave one or two upfield when they have a corner? Two fastest players could stand wide right and wide left and they'd need three back to cover them. The penalty box becomes less congested and should then be easier to defend.

Always, always the sensible approach.

But coaching orthodoxy says "no". That's based on the stats that say the one(s) left up don't often score.

Maybe so, but the defence HAVE to cover them +1, which makes for less attackers, plus, a cleared ball  doesn't automatically come flying back.

[Deanu]

Started the game with the intent needed, bossed them for the most part & won a lot of the midfield battle which was brilliant to see. When we went a goal down against the run of play I thought here we fucking go again but we reacted very positively & got our rewards. In live time it looked a clear red, that the GK handled outside the box but on zoomed in replay looks like we may have got the rub of the green but I couldn’t give a shit there’s been soo many time where we’ve had players sent off for absolutely nothing the past few seasons it’s about time one went our way. Eoin Toal absolute class, looked like he’d not missed a game & Sheehan dictated proceedings them two the standouts for me. Mendes Gomes looked lost as a RWB though, hoping we don’t waste him there for the sake of fitting him in.

[ZiggyStardust]

1 hour ago, Traf said:

Yeah, that floaty cross is just a waste of time.

And I agree with Santos getting in the way upfront. At one point, he and Thomason were just passing to each other on the edge of the box with neither seeming to know what to do with it and both unwilling to have a shot and the next thing you know, we've given it away and Derby were breaking.

Another thing, last 10 mins, you knew Derby would throw everything at us. We've an extra man, why not leave one or two upfield when they have a corner? Two fastest players could stand wide right and wide left and they'd need three back to cover them. The penalty box becomes less congested and should then be easier to defend.

Conventional coaching theory has the dictact that the more players in the box (of both sides), the less likely it to score, as it less likely to have a 'free' header or shot.

Not sure I agree with it, but thats the thinking.

[Dr. Feelgood]

25 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Conventional coaching theory has the dictact that the more players in the box (of both sides), the less likely it to score, as it less likely to have a 'free' header or shot.

Not sure I agree with it, but thats the thinking.

I know ... & who tf am I ... but, as explained above, I think it's wrong.

At least one, to ensure a cleared ball does become a free hit to return it.

Bit, there you go.

[Cheese]

Doesn't look like it took a deflection to me.

[captainmed]

Does anyone know our strategy re away fans?

Lincoln & Fleetwood - top tier.

Boro & Derby bottom tier.

Surely we should be keeping them up top and selling those first to keep them quieter. 

[BWFC_LOVE]

8 minutes ago, captainmed said:

Does anyone know our strategy re away fans?

Lincoln & Fleetwood - top tier.

Boro & Derby bottom tier.

Surely we should be keeping them up top and selling those first to keep them quieter. 

Expect it’s based on projected numbers. Upper tier holds roughly 2k doesn’t it?

You’d expect both Derby and Boro to bring more than 2k, so give them the lower tier (which holds more) and save potentially opening up both. If they sell more than the 3k-ish, then open up the top tier. 

[captainmed]

2 minutes ago, BWFC_LOVE said:

Expect it’s based on projected numbers. Upper tier holds roughly 2k doesn’t it?

You’d expect both Derby and Boro to bring more than 2k, so give them the lower tier (which holds more) and save potentially opening up both. If they sell more than the 3k-ish, then open up the top tier. 

Thanks.

Fair enough that makes sense. 

[globaldiver]

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

Santos was driving me bonkers when we were camped on the edge of their box. I think I remember the incident you mention when Thomo laid it off perfectly to Santos for a shot and I was screaming "Hit it!" - and Santos tapped it back to him. I think Thomo was as shocked as I was.

We certainly need an outball when we're under the cosh. We defended the box pretty well (although there were a few penalty scares) but there were too many times when we cleared it straight to their players and back it came.

They were looking for Morley 

[Wanderlust]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Doesn't look like it took a deflection to me.

If anything it hit the defenders arm who was in the box so worst case, a pen.

I think that's what happened given the weird flight path. Also the goalie wasn't really back pedalling to get it so I think he assumed it was missing.

Don't care either way - it was a goal. Not bothered about their goalie getting a red when the close up video clearly shows if hit his chest. He must have been gutted though because he made 3 great blocks and then got his marching orders.