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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Wigan (H)


desperado

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4 hours ago, passmosster said:

Colin Todd bought Jamie Pollock to get over the 100 point mark. Says it all really. We are soft.

That team was still hard and tough without Pollock 

Fairclough, Taggart, Bergsson, Sheridan, Thompson, Todd, McGinlay, Blake 

None of would duck out of a scrap 

See Wolves at home

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1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

No because he’ll spend more time suspended than on the pitch. What we need is players, all of them, to show the same attitude as Demps. Let’s face it, it was just a really bad day at the office where multiple players went missing at the same time but I’ve watched it back now and though we were bad there were trigger points all through which could have changed things starting with that tackle by Humphrey’s early on which there is no question should have been a booking and it wasn’t the only one. Had the ref stamped down it may well have changed things and I think I have to agree with Evatt that the ball did fall for them for goals 2 and 3 despite our abysmal defending whilst it never seemed to do for us. Had Cogley buried his chance early in the second half again it could have immediately changed the situation.These things happen in games and the worst thing that can happen now is for the squad to dwell on the result. It’s one game, it’s gone so make sure you don’t fret but use the experience to ensure it doesn’t happen again starting at Burton on Saturday.

Good post. 

I’m not trying to downplay all the criticism, which quite rightly has come their way after an abject performance in a big local game, but it really is time to move on and learn.

At this juncture I’m quite happy now to consider this our Southend moment in the season and trust that they’ll use this as motivation, not just to turn the corner quickly at Burton, but to also come back much stronger and better prepared when it’s our next derby against Blackpool.

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34 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Well, whatever you think of Iles, he's pulled no punches in his report of the game.

Certainly worth a read, and it may wrankle with Evatt etc, but he will have to swallow it.

Yeah just read it spot on !

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Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite.

A brave piece of writing in the sense that some at bwfc may well be irked by it. 

Perfectly reasonable though.

I think it’s fair too: 

IAN Evatt has often railed against accusations that his team has a soft centre; that being the case, he should probably stop reading here.

The swaggering football Bolton produced in patches against Lincoln, Cheltenham and Fleetwood was enough to see off poor opposition comfortably enough, and let’s be honest, it should also keep the Whites in operation at the top end of the table for another season.

When they are good, Evatt’s side is a pleasure to watch. But, my word, the opposite is also true.

“It’s happening again,” sang the 4,000 Wigan Athletic fans in the South Stand, not knowing how prophetic their words actually were. For while a heavy local derby defeat stings more than most, this has happened before, and it will happen again.

The whole of League One will have watched the aggressive way Charlie Wyke, Callum Lang, Callum McManaman and Stephen Humphrys went about their business and will be taking notes. Not every side will possess a quartet of such quality, of course, but then the blueprint on ‘how to beat Bolton’ has not changed much in the last few years.

Evatt’s appearance at post-match press conferences is usually impressively swift, certainly in comparison to some of his predecessors. On Saturday afternoon, however, he appeared long after Shaun Maloney had conducted an impressively humble interview, suggesting he had spent some time telling his players a few home truths, perhaps even reviewing a few of his own choices on the day, too?

The Bolton boss talked about mentality, of having some reservations about how well his players gee themselves up for blood-and-thunder affairs like a local derby. All are technically sound, and there are characters and personalities in the dressing room who genuinely deserve a chance at success, but do they have the cojones to win when it really matters?

Evatt is not blameless. His football philosophy is ingrained to the point where the team’s Plan B is pretty much being better at Plan A. He has assembled a group of pure footballers who can now handle the tactical and physical demands he places on them but there is no getting around the fact that – especially without the waspish Dion Charles – they are just too nice.

Wigan may be much changed from the team that won promotion a couple of years back in a sea of overspending but they do have an admirable grittiness which persists in the club’s DNA, even post-James McClean. The outcome of Saturday’s game seemed to matter more to the Latics… And that is a damning indictment on the players in white.

Barring Kyle Dempsey, and second-half replacements Carlos Mendes-Gomes and Paris Maghoma, there was not a performance from a Bolton player that was even close to acceptable. Some had genuine off-days – Nathan Baxter, Jack Iredale and Josh Sheehan fall into that category but others turned in displays that were genuinely worrying.

Some may feel that after three straight wins that such a bombardment of criticism is unfair. And one can only hope they use it for motivation at Burton Albion next weekend, and beyond. This group is being labelled as a flat track bully, and they have to start convincing us otherwise, or automatic promotion might just be a pipe dream.

Three down by half-time, some of the 24,000-plus crowd didn’t bother returning for the second half.

Jack Iredale conceded a cheap corner after just 12 minutes, at which three different Wigan players attacked the ball unmarked, Charlie Wyke eventually forcing it past Baxter.

The Bolton keeper had a day to forget. Not a dozen minutes later, Lang outmuscled Gethin Jones and his shot was pushed into the path of Humphrys for the second.

Just before half time it got worse – Lang got in again and managed to lead a stranded Baxter and a procession of Bolton defenders a merry dance before Humphrys forced the ball home. All that was missing was the Benny Hill music.

Wigan sat deep after the interval, which gave Bolton a chance to attack at will. Josh Dacres-Cogley had the best chance but, in general, the brave defending was exemplary.

Wyke scored the fourth with a powerful strike that went through Baxter’s hands and bounced apologetically into the net in front of a rapturous away following. Those home fans who had stayed were getting PTSD flashbacks.

The Latics fully deserved their emphatic win, but it is important to highlight how clinical they were in comparison to a Bolton team that had 20 shots, put four on target, and who failed to force Sam Tickle into a meaningful save all afternoon.

Such results require a bit of bloodletting and when Ricardo Santos appeared to give the players’ account of what had just happened, he had the look of a man who would rather be anywhere else.

Just a couple of days earlier he had sat in the same seat, talking about his pride in keeping clean sheets, his own excellent early season form, and a Bolton squad that was bubbling with confidence. Football is indeed an unpredictable mistress.

It also works the other way. Should Evatt and his players gather the required motivation from the brickbats which will undoubtedly continue throughout the week and muster a result at Burton, then the agenda will change again.

Certainly, there are few more suited opponents, or stadia, than Dino Maamria’s Brewers at the Pirelli to discover whether you are vulnerable to the more physical elements of League One football. If the away end starts singing: ‘It’s happening again’ next weekend, then things really will get awkward.

This result hurts, or at least it should. Strangely, the performance was marginally better than the 4-0 of October 2021 but the fact that it boiled down to attitude somehow made it harder to stomach.

This team has some impressive qualities but also some glaringly obvious flaws, which have persisted right the way through Evatt’s three-plus years in charge. He has never truly escaped the criticism that an expansive, modern, possession-based approach can, at its worst, also be considered one dimensional.

‘Plan A’ might be good enough to get Bolton into the Championship. And there will be few complaints if a trophy is being lifted in May, regardless of results against Wigan.

If we can’t handle them at their worst, then do we deserve them at their best? Following Bolton Wanderers is nothing if not eventful.

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1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

No because he’ll spend more time suspended than on the pitch. What we need is players, all of them, to show the same attitude as Demps. Let’s face it, it was just a really bad day at the office where multiple players went missing at the same time but I’ve watched it back now and though we were bad there were trigger points all through which could have changed things starting with that tackle by Humphrey’s early on which there is no question should have been a booking and it wasn’t the only one. Had the ref stamped down it may well have changed things and I think I have to agree with Evatt that the ball did fall for them for goals 2 and 3 despite our abysmal defending whilst it never seemed to do for us. Had Cogley buried his chance early in the second half again it could have immediately changed the situation.These things happen in games and the worst thing that can happen now is for the squad to dwell on the result. It’s one game, it’s gone so make sure you don’t fret but use the experience to ensure it doesn’t happen again starting at Burton on Saturday.

well, theres a first

cant disagree with anything there :)

i suppose the question is was that ref on saturday an outlier, or have we now decided you can kick folk with impunity

fwiw, i thought he was shit - wigan were very very good at laying down an early marker but they left a few boots in and the time wasting was shocking

 

nb wigan well deserved their win, im not saying otherwise

i do think theres been some massive over reactions tho

we shall see

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This for me is a watershed moment for IE and the players they need to bounce back and make sure this doesn’t happen again only time will tell but a couple of new signings needed to add steel to the team. 
Only positive I can see is that it’s happened early in the season.

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15 minutes ago, Casino said:

well, theres a first

cant disagree with anything there :)

i suppose the question is was that ref on saturday an outlier, or have we now decided you can kick folk with impunity

fwiw, i thought he was shit - wigan were very very good at laying down an early marker but they left a few boots in and the time wasting was shocking

 

nb wigan well deserved their win, im not saying otherwise

i do think theres been some massive over reactions tho

we shall see

Their keeper was probably the worst 

Ball would go out for a goal kick, there's one of those replacement balls on the plinth or whatever you want to call it two yards away from him and he doesn't take it, instead waits for the original ball

Ref did nowt

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2 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Their keeper was probably the worst 

Ball would go out for a goal kick, there's one of those replacement balls on the plinth or whatever you want to call it two yards away from him and he doesn't take it, instead waits for the original ball

Ref did nowt

in hindsight, it mightve kept the score down

but it was another thing designed to prevent us building anything

you can run around like a scalded cat if you stop the game every couple of minutes...maybe

and that shit ref bought everything

 

nb they deserved to win - i will keep saying it :)

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1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

No because he’ll spend more time suspended than on the pitch. What we need is players, all of them, to show the same attitude as Demps. Let’s face it, it was just a really bad day at the office where multiple players went missing at the same time but I’ve watched it back now and though we were bad there were trigger points all through which could have changed things starting with that tackle by Humphrey’s early on which there is no question should have been a booking and it wasn’t the only one. Had the ref stamped down it may well have changed things and I think I have to agree with Evatt that the ball did fall for them for goals 2 and 3 despite our abysmal defending whilst it never seemed to do for us. Had Cogley buried his chance early in the second half again it could have immediately changed the situation.These things happen in games and the worst thing that can happen now is for the squad to dwell on the result. It’s one game, it’s gone so make sure you don’t fret but use the experience to ensure it doesn’t happen again starting at Burton on Saturday.

A midfield bastard does not mean getting sent off every other week. But more skilled in the dark arts. I am very supportive of Evatt but this was not 'just a really bad day at the office' it was a repeat of a number of similar performances against the 'better' teams in the division. Who is the leader on the pitch when things start going wrong ? 
The Conley chance came at 3-0, untill the third went in I thought we were in the game, although was that because they dropped off ? It is being very generous after a 4-0 home defeat to talk about luck or the ball just dropping for them. 
I am certainly not in the let's make 10 changes for Burton camp but we can not ignore the fact we got 3 points from 18 against the promoted teams last year.  Evatt himself said it was the first time someone had laid a glove on us all season and we did not cope. 
We certainly do not need a Vinnie Jones thug but someone in there who is simply not nice to play against. 

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3 minutes ago, Ani said:

A midfield bastard does not mean getting sent off every other week. But more skilled in the dark arts. I am very supportive of Evatt but this was not 'just a really bad day at the office' it was a repeat of a number of similar performances against the 'better' teams in the division. Who is the leader on the pitch when things start going wrong ? 
The Conley chance came at 3-0, untill the third went in I thought we were in the game, although was that because they dropped off ? It is being very generous after a 4-0 home defeat to talk about luck or the ball just dropping for them. 
I am certainly not in the let's make 10 changes for Burton camp but we can not ignore the fact we got 3 points from 18 against the promoted teams last year.  Evatt himself said it was the first time someone had laid a glove on us all season and we did not cope. 
We certainly do not need a Vinnie Jones thug but someone in there who is simply not nice to play against. 

It’s a puzzle for Burton you could make    a good argument for changing nearly the whole team but that would be foolish or does IE pick the same 11 and tell them to get it sorted (apart from Dan who I just don’t rate ) . My opinion I would bring Toal in for GJ drop Morley who was as weak as piss and Dion for Dan. 

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31 minutes ago, Casino said:

well, theres a first

cant disagree with anything there :)

i suppose the question is was that ref on saturday an outlier, or have we now decided you can kick folk with impunity

fwiw, i thought he was shit - wigan were very very good at laying down an early marker but they left a few boots in and the time wasting was shocking

 

nb wigan well deserved their win, im not saying otherwise

i do think theres been some massive over reactions tho

we shall see

That first bad tackle was so important for the game. Thee was another about a minute later. As soon as they went unpunished I knew we where in trouble. In the higher divisions there would have been a yellows all day long.

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17 minutes ago, Casino said:

in hindsight, it mightve kept the score down

but it was another thing designed to prevent us building anything

you can run around like a scalded cat if you stop the game every couple of minutes...maybe

and that shit ref bought everything

 

nb they deserved to win - i will keep saying it :)

Aye

Just makes a mockery of the changes in the rules when a ref can't spot something so simple 

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8 minutes ago, Ani said:

We certainly do not need a Vinnie Jones thug but someone in there who is simply not nice to play against. 

I actually think we might have this already. Like you say not a thug, I think that’s the last thing this side needs.

Midfielders who are physically strong, communicate, make themselves seen and heard, leaders on the pitch. Thomason, for me, definitely does this. 

And while I’m not definite, I think early signs are that Maghoma has something about him. He was certainly telling and showing other players what to do in the 2nd half and leading by example. 

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2 minutes ago, nantwichwhite said:

That first bad tackle was so important for the game. Thee was another about a minute later. As soon as they went unpunished I knew we where in trouble. In the higher divisions there would have been a yellows all day long.

That's the issue. Refs have let stuff go, and other clubs' fans reckon we get away with stuff. 

We have to be able to manage such exploits ourselves.

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4 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

It’s a puzzle for Burton you could make    a good argument for changing nearly the whole team but that would be foolish or does IE pick the same 11 and tell them to get it sorted (apart from Dan who I just don’t rate ) . My opinion I would bring Toal in for GJ drop Morley who was as weak as piss and Dion for Dan. 

Dion comes in, Vics record at Burton means he starts. Midfield is the dilemma with GT and Magahomes pushing for starts can see changes. Would not change the defence.

CMG is odd one, shown glimpses but I am not sure how he fits into our system anymore than Dapo did.

Just now, nantwichwhite said:

That first bad tackle was so important for the game. Thee was another about a minute later. As soon as they went unpunished I knew we where in trouble. In the higher divisions there would have been a yellows all day long.

Both were yellows, given Humphrey got one second half it was a piss take. 

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