Wigan Twats

[MickyD]

10 minutes ago, Stig said:

No I was responding to MickyD on p33 claiming it was like the city/speed game, and for some reason Cheese didn't understand and needed it clarifying.

Re: footballers not being able to shoot from distance as much, I've wondered if that's now because they're all such athletes. No real units who couldn't run but could cannon a shot.

 

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

He said it "wasn't too dissimilar", not that it was the same - i.e one side dominated, but still ended up losing.

That is exactly what I meant. As a fan, I could understand, after last night, how City fans must’ve felt after ‘that’ game.

 

Regarding Stig’s point about shooting from distance, Sam Allardyce forbade his players from shooting outside the box. I recall it was mainly to do with percentages missed from outside compared with inside.

Perhaps IE feels similarly.

Oh, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not; repeat not, comparing managerial styles and attributes of BSA and IE.

[Stig]

1 minute ago, MickyD said:

That is exactly what I meant. As a fan, I could understand, after last night, how City fans must’ve felt after ‘that’ game.

 

Regarding Stig’s point about shooting from distance, Sam Allardyce forbade his players from shooting outside the box. I recall it was mainly to do with percentages missed from outside compared with inside.

Perhaps IE feels similarly.

Oh, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not; repeat not, comparing managerial styles and attributes of BSA and IE.

I get it, but I just don't think the comparison is valid. That city game we were pummelled, shots flying off the woodwork, saves all over the place. I wouldn't class having more possession and 0.1 more XG in the "dominating" bracket.

Anyway, I certainly didn't come away feeling unlucky, mainly just that we didn't do enough.

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

Which team dominated last night ? It wasn't us.

You must have been watching a different game. We dominated in almost every aspect, and every single match report I've read agrees. Even the Wigan Today article.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/second-win-over-bolton-wanderers-meant-even-more-for-wigan-athletic-chief-4535763

[Lostock Whites]

We can dominate every single game remaining and still not go up.

We are badly missing a ruthlessness both in attack and defense. At least if we can't score you don't concede and we are doing, so poorly at the minute, hence why we are losing so many matches.

Poor defensive mistakes with a lack of attacking efficiency, a recipe for disaster and definitely not a recipe for promotion.

Hopefully we can now move on from this poor period, get the basics right, start pulling together some clean sheets (none in 9 matches) and start getting some points on the board again. 

 

Edited February 28 by Lostock Whites

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Ramsey seems a bit puzzling, in that we are changing the LWB literally every game, and no doubt Williams will be back next week, but at right back we are flogging an out of form/average at best player whilst leaving a fresh new signing from Liverpool on the bench.  And if he's no better than Cogley, is he much of an upgrade on Matheson?  We had the chance to develop Matheson a bit with an odd appearance here and there even if just for 20 minutes against Cambridge etc, but we chose to uproot him to Ireland and develop another club's player instead.  Logical if he's a clear upgrade - if he doesn't play on Saturday he's just there for injuries, which Matheson could have done surely.

aye, noted also

was the same last season

now obviously there was no reason to drop Bradley as he was very good

but IE would chop and change between John, Iredale, Williams, Beck etc

now i also get that he brought in Iredale as an alternative to John (and then Wiliams because John was sulking) and cited the reason as being some games we want defesnive, other more attack minded

but that doesn't appear to apply to the right - I guess he thinks Cogley can do both, and Bradley could do both, maybe

it does just seem like he can't make his mind up on LWB

I don't see any reason to drop Ashworth in terms of what he has to offer

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

The frustrating thing is we have the ability now to switch the wing backs mid game as the match progresses

It'd be great in a system like ours - which relies on advancing wing-backs to provide the width and the deliveries in - to bring on fresh legs in that position after an hour or so to really attack the tiring opposition full backs but we don't

[DazBob]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

You must have been watching a different game. We dominated in almost every aspect, and every single match report I've read agrees. Even the Wigan Today article.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/second-win-over-bolton-wanderers-meant-even-more-for-wigan-athletic-chief-4535763

We dominated possession. That's about it.

 

[Johnnyrotten]

10 hours ago, CambridgeBWFC said:

Whilst I will repeat, I don't want him gone, changes do need to be made, we need pragmatism and a solid plan B, C and D, and we need some true leaders out there on the pitch as currently we don't have any.

A good measured post with valid comments, and yes I wish we could claim compensation for sleep loss!

But on your last point, anyone that wants changes, pragmatism, plans B, C, D - and some leaders (preferably with some bite/physicality) - its one or t'other, we either want IE to stay and continue or we want the points you mention, we can't have both. 

IE isn't going to change, rightly or wrongly.  I'm not talking about exceptional circumstances like Northampton in response to a sending off - its about adapting tactics to certain opposition or just to take them by surprise occasionally, or to adapt to who's available in our squad, maybe not always having 5 defenders/wingbacks etc when circumstances dictate.

[ZiggyStardust]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

You must have been watching a different game. We dominated in almost every aspect, and every single match report I've read agrees. Even the Wigan Today article.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/second-win-over-bolton-wanderers-meant-even-more-for-wigan-athletic-chief-4535763

We will have to disagree.

We dominated position (they were happy for us to).

They dominated goals scored (we were less happy about this).

they dominated good scoring chances (ditto).

 

[MickyD]

13,204 official crowd. Not a chance!

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

We dominated possession. That's about it.

 

Youre not one of the moonmen but i think thats a bit unfair

Nobody could argue a 2 0 win for us wouldve been a robbery

We didnt create as much as the possession stats would perhaps suggest but sometimes you need people a few yards out to hit target

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

8 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

We will have to disagree.

We dominated position (they were happy for us to).

They dominated goals scored (we were less happy about this).

they dominated good scoring chances (ditto).

 

An important point

We may or may not have dominated possession even if they'd have pressed us high, but there's no doubt it was their gameplan to sit back and let us have it

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

We will have to disagree.

Indeed we will, but the stats and match reports back me up. We all interpret things differently in real time of course. I thought we looked FAR more like scoring than they did....until they scored. It was a fucking shitter, but it's gone now. The "Evatt out" calls are fucking bonkers.

[Johnnyrotten]

6 hours ago, radcliffe white said:

I wouldn’t say knee jerking ramblings myself I’ve been very consistent with my views on IE and our performances

like I mentioned last night for me we haven’t been the same since Portsmouth away that result really hit us imo, take a few cup games & Carlisle away and we’ve been very fortunate and lucky in games but now it’s running out

we now must find the type of performances which we had sept & October time and see this job out otherwise a very promising season could u turn very quickly 

I'm agreeing with you, and as you say you've been very consistent in your views, as I have.  Its not difficult to be consistent when the results are fairly consistent give or take the odd stinker and the odd 7-0.  We beat the lesser teams, we don't beat the better teams.  Its a general rule which can be altered by ref's decisions or a player deservedly getting sent off, or a player having a nightmare (pens v Carlisle etc).

Just to pick you up on the "Sep and Oct" performances - were they any better?  Our wins v 11 men were v Port Vale, Stevenage (we all know we got a bit lucky), Northampton (hanging on), Wycombe, Charlton and Shrewsbury (good away wins, fully deserved, at struggling teams).  I'm very grateful for those wins, they've put us up where we are, but we could win them again if we played tomorrow just as we've recently played great at Carlisle and Cambridge.  That's not the issue though, nothing has changed all season for me, we know who we can beat and who we can't, generally.

[Stig]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Indeed we will, but the stats and match reports back me up. We all interpret things differently in real time of course. I thought we looked FAR more like scoring than they did....until they scored. It was a fucking shitter, but it's gone now. The "Evatt out" calls are fucking bonkers.

You're picking and choosing which posts you use the stats to back you up and which posts you ignore the stats. If you want to use the stats to say we dominated why was XG so similar?

[Cheese]

16 minutes ago, DazBob said:

We dominated possession. That's about it.

If we're just going off stats, then that literally isn't "about it". We had far more shots and won far more corners. As I have already said, those stats are no comfort if you lose the game, but they're still true. If you watched that performance last night and thought we were shite, we're just on different wavelengths. The last week needs putting to bed, and having faith that we get back to our best with Baxter and Dion fired up for the run in.

[Cheese]

17 minutes ago, Stig said:

You're picking and choosing which posts you use the stats to back you up and which posts you ignore the stats. If you want to use the stats to say we dominated why was XG so similar?

So are you. Didn't Charlton have a tiny xG compared to ours, yet the game ended 3-3?

Edited February 28 by Cheese

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

xG is a bollocks "statistic" for what it's worth

[Cheese]

According to this, our xG against Charlton was 1.15, and theirs was 0.36, yet we both scored 3. I don't get it.

https://theathletic.com/football/game/bolton-wanderers-vs-charlton-athletic/HImFaiQJuW3VCisl/

Edited February 28 by Cheese

[Tombwfc]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

xG is a bollocks "statistic" for what it's worth

 

I'm not a massive fan of it, but it depends how you use it and how much you expect it to tell you. It's certainly a better guide to quality of chances created than who had the most fucking corners.

You don't actually need xG numbers to tell you us and Wigan created a similar number of good chances last night. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Tombwfc said:

I'm not a massive fan of it, but it depends how you use it and how much you expect it to tell you. It's certainly a better guide to quality of chances created than who had the most fucking corners.

You don't actually need xG numbers to tell you us and Wigan created a similar number of good chances last night. 

It only takes ONE chance to win a match. We could have created 20 good chances to their 1, and still have lost. That's just fucking football ffs.

[little whitt]

Our Wingbacks  Get it to the Byline 

Do They Put a Cross in to the Box No 

Pass it back to the Midfield 

Who Then Pass it Back to Defence 

Defence then Pass it to the Wingbacks  Who have got back for it 

 

[radcliffe white]

43 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'm agreeing with you, and as you say you've been very consistent in your views, as I have.  Its not difficult to be consistent when the results are fairly consistent give or take the odd stinker and the odd 7-0.  We beat the lesser teams, we don't beat the better teams.  Its a general rule which can be altered by ref's decisions or a player deservedly getting sent off, or a player having a nightmare (pens v Carlisle etc).

Just to pick you up on the "Sep and Oct" performances - were they any better?  Our wins v 11 men were v Port Vale, Stevenage (we all know we got a bit lucky), Northampton (hanging on), Wycombe, Charlton and Shrewsbury (good away wins, fully deserved, at struggling teams).  I'm very grateful for those wins, they've put us up where we are, but we could win them again if we played tomorrow just as we've recently played great at Carlisle and Cambridge.  That's not the issue though, nothing has changed all season for me, we know who we can beat and who we can't, generally.

I remember the performances around that time to be more fluid from memory but yes still fragile at times, Wycombe was a crazy one absolutely coasting 2 up then them equalising from nowhere 

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, Lostock Whites said:

Our wing backs are so important to our attack, I think Ogbeta has quality attacking wise and has shown he can create.

Cogley is nowhere near good enough in my opinion. It might be seen as harsh, but I feel if there's anywhere we need to be harsh and as good as possible, its our wing backs, due to the reason above.

Cogley is far too negative with the ball and isn't willing to beat a man. It's actually refreshing seeing Ogbeta do a step over and fire it into the box.

Agree with that, nothing against Cogley who's looked OK mostly and has great close control and is largely reliable/unlikely to have a stinker.  But yes Ogbeta (and Jones when on his attacking game) provides a contrast with his direct style and ability to beat a man more than very occasionally, and whip a cross in rather than a safe "pass".  For someone being asked to play as a winger, effectively, there's such a lack of dynamism with Cogley and that's been the case for months, I first noticed it against Carlisle when we had all that possession in the 2nd half and failed to create a thing, a refusal to take a man on.  He's OK, but IMO we need better for such a crucial position in our system, and the same can be said at LWB where Williams is the first choice.

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, Stig said:

No I was responding to MickyD on p33 claiming it was like the city/speed game, and for some reason Cheese didn't understand and needed it clarifying.

Re: footballers not being able to shoot from distance as much, I've wondered if that's now because they're all such athletes. No real units who couldn't run but could cannon a shot.

 

I see goals going in from all angles and distances on the EFL goals highlights, although admittedly when teams play against us they look as hopeless as we do from outside the box.  But the skill exists, it just doesn't seem to happen in our games for or against.  Toal can do it, but obviously he's rarely in a position to try.  Toal has a lot to his game as he's also one of the few that can pose a threat in the air from corners, I know he missed one last night (1st half) but I thought he had a great game.