Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Silly thing with Engalnd is that you can't have a proper conversation- we win and it's glory glory, we lose and it's the manager is the shittest of all time. Neither of which are true, we have done well recently and it's not just because of individual player, but really amazing leadership. But is Southgate the best manager? No, both of these things can be true. Getting to finals is amazing, best we've ever had - gutted we lost? Yes. Again, both of these things are true and it's OK. Maybe one day we'll win something, maybe we won't. But its so much better than it used to be in the doldrums of 92, or the teams in the 2000s who it was a bit difficult to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol_BWFC Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, wiggy said: Before the tournament, Gareth Southgate had faced top-10 FIFA-ranked teams 24 times as England's manager, with 4 wins to his name. Now he has faced top-10 FIFA-ranked teams 25 times as England's manager, still with just 4 wins to his name. Is that right? Beat Netherlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: Not really, it's like weeds popping up. We have been to two major finals, that's not luck, or poor management. Armchair leaders deserve a smidge of derision. Against Slovakia it really was. That’s not on Southgate. I really do respect him & his achievements. I’m not underestimating what he’s done. But that’s two finals where we’ve tried to scrape over with a cagey, conservative approach. And on both occasions we can look back with some level of regret. There’s a psychological & mentality issue to think about that not many of the other big guns need to worry about to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Jol_BWFC said: Is that right? Beat Netherlands. Apologies. Was reported wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 It’s not a job for top level managers, they don’t want it hence the shite we have had for the last few years, sooner people realise this the better. I’ve no idea who the perfect manager is but I doubt the likes of pep, Klopp, or Jose would want to be anywhere near it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, wiggy said: Before the tournament, Gareth Southgate had faced top-10 FIFA-ranked teams 24 times as England's manager, with 4 wins to his name. Now he has faced top-10 FIFA-ranked teams 25 times as England's manager, still with just 4 wins to his name. Won Columbia (pens) Sweden Senegal Germany Ukraine Denmark Slovakia (ET) Switzerland (pens) Netherlands Lost Croatia France Italy Spain An updated version of what I posted after the Switzerland game. His overall record looks great, but ultimately he was was lacking time and time again when up against a team that was either a similar level to us or slightly better. It will all depend on whether you judge holistically by outcome without reference to how we got there, or game by game taking into consideration just how lucky he was with the draw (and he was massively fortunate with it) and who we ultimately played. Par at best for me. Got where I’d have expected to in each tournament based on the teams we faced without ever progressing further. Massively bottled our 1 big chance against a shite Italy side on home turf. All whilst playing terrible, negative, submissive football. On to USA, with hopefully a new manager to lead this lot of players who will very much in the main be the same as for this tournament (only really Walker, Kane and Trippier that might have been phased out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L/H White Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, royal white said: It’s not a job for top level managers, they don’t want it hence the shite we have had for the last few years, sooner people realise this the better. I’ve no idea who the perfect manager is but I doubt the likes of pep, Klopp, or Jose would want to be anywhere near it. Correct, there isn't a world class manager at international level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, London Wanderer said: Against Slovakia it really was. That’s not on Southgate. I really do respect him & his achievements. I’m not underestimating what he’s done. But that’s two finals where we’ve tried to scrape over with a cagey, conservative approach. And on both occasions we can look back with some level of regret. There’s a psychological & mentality issue to think about that not many of the other big guns need to worry about to be fair. Totally disagree - we were there tonight built on the basis of a stong mentality. The rest is emotional flim flam really. Again, is Southgate the worlds greatest manager, no. Has he managed over many tournaments to get a group of young men unified and playing for country without all the crappy baggage that we've had before? Yes. He deserves nothing but praise. The fact he'll get shit says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Who do people realistically want as manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lt. Aldo Raine Posted July 14 Members Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, royal white said: Who do people realistically want as manager? I don't know about want, but it'll be one of Potter, Howe, or Carsley I reckon Probably Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 100% we'll miss Southgate when he's gone. The players almost certainly will. I hope the next manager fosters such an environment that allows us the success we've had recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, royal white said: Who do people realistically want as manager? Owen Coyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DazBob Posted July 14 Members Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, royal white said: Who do people realistically want as manager? Someone who will play with the handbrake off. Definitely not Mourinho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burndens Bogs Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I don’t get the hype over Mainoo, he’s a water carrier at best and has been fairly wank. Guehi has had a poor tournament. Kane has been a fucking embarrassment. Bellingham has been average and is a young lad up his own arse. To win a tournament you need all your players giving 8 or 9 out of 10 performances consistently, most of our lads have been 6 out of 10 throughout the tournament. How the fuck we made the final i’ll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, Not in Crawley said: 100% we'll miss Southgate when he's gone. The players almost certainly will. I hope the next manager fosters such an environment that allows us the success we've had recently. Nice guys don’t win. The players might love him, he might be a really nice guy to them and they really enjoy having a chat with him and the really nice friendly sessions he does which are all really lovely and make them feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside. I hope the next manager instills a winning environment and if one or two don’t like it then they can fuck off - I imagine the best ones who are playing at the top of the game would thrive off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted July 14 Moderators Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: Silly thing with Engalnd is that you can't have a proper conversation- we win and it's glory glory, we lose and it's the manager is the shittest of all time. Neither of which are true, we have done well recently and it's not just because of individual player, but really amazing leadership. But is Southgate the best manager? No, both of these things can be true. Getting to finals is amazing, best we've ever had - gutted we lost? Yes. Again, both of these things are true and it's OK. Maybe one day we'll win something, maybe we won't. But its so much better than it used to be in the doldrums of 92, or the teams in the 2000s who it was a bit difficult to support. Like so many of us of us of the same age I'm used to us not winning For me ultimately it doesn't matter if you got to a final and lose, or a semi, or fail to get out the group stage We've always thought we could win but never looked like a top quality side despite having top quality players Spain won all 7 games and looked the part That's never been us Maybe we could be, with the talent we have Nothing against Southgate, but same old let down and he just doesn't have any attacking impetus in him to take the game to someone Fuck knows who can do a job though The Spanish just won with a 63 year old who has fuck all top level club or international experience before he got the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Alf Hartigan Posted July 14 Site Supporter Share Posted July 14 32 minutes ago, L/H White said: If we can be serious for a minute Id hazard a guess that Southgate has delivered our best England moments, 2 finals, a semi and a 1/4 final Is this the best it gets for us? Do you truly believe another manager could get us over the line? If so, who? And a realistic appointment? Imo our next manager will be Howe or Carsley, and they won't do as well as Southgate. One of your more sensible posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted July 14 Moderators Share Posted July 14 9 minutes ago, royal white said: It’s not a job for top level managers, they don’t want it hence the shite we have had for the last few years, sooner people realise this the better. I’ve no idea who the perfect manager is but I doubt the likes of pep, Klopp, or Jose would want to be anywhere near it. As just said in another post Have a look at the guy who just won it Then again we lost to Mancini last time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, DazBob said: Someone who will play with the handbrake off. Definitely not Mourinho. Hear this handbrake thing all the time. But most teams play well with a 'handbrake' ie you need the defensive base to let the forwards play. Just lobbing every talented forward player on never works. Which is why for me, Gerrard should have been dropped over Lampard for England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Gutted for England. Gutted for Gareth Southgate. I don't think anybody in England cares about the national team more than that man. I think he'll go. And I'll be hugely amazed (and elated) if whoever comes in does a better job. Just watched my 9 year old son cry at the football for the first time. Welcome to the club son! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger_Dubuis Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 11 minutes ago, royal white said: Who do people realistically want as manager? Emma Hayes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Eddie said: Nice guys don’t win. The players might love him, he might be a really nice guy to them and they really enjoy having a chat with him and the really nice friendly sessions he does which are all really lovely and make them feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside. I hope the next manager instills a winning environment and if one or two don’t like it then they can fuck off - I imagine the best ones who are playing at the top of the game would thrive off it. The post started with inane platitudes and the followed up with a total misunderstanding of the job he has done over many tournaments. Or to follow it to an example, tough guy Capello was a ringing success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burndens Bogs Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, kent_white said: Just watched my 9 year old son cry at the football for the first time. Welcome to the club son! Wait till you tell him he’s got 58 years of hurt to look forward to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: The post started with inane platitudes and the followed up with a total misunderstanding of the job he has done over many tournaments. Or to follow it to an example, tough guy Capello was a ringing success. How many trophies has he won? No more than Capello (who was also a terrible appointment) or any of the others. Finals ultimately mean fuck all, neither does being a plucky loser to France in the quarter final, or doing reallyyyyy well to get to the World Cup semi but deciding to sabotage your chances and play Lingard and Alli in centre mid when you get there. I’ll say it again - there is not one tournament where he has over performed when you look at the draw we’ve been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Burndens Bogs said: Wait till you tell him he’s got 58 years of hurt to look forward to There are the wins away mid week at Port Vale though that keep us ticking over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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