Normandy

[Dimron]

The Battle of Normandy came to an end 80 years ago today, hence me now taking down my D Day picture.

The East Lancs Regiment who originally formed in Huyton were heavily involved in the tank battles, went on to fight in the Battle of the Bulge and became one of the first to cross the Rhine in the biggest amphibious assault since D Day... lots of local lads, many became bus drivers on demob.

Here's a picture of the boys from one of my books... I haven't found a picture of "Bolton" yet...

[Breightmet Boy]

My Uncle (dad's best mate) who lived in Motherwell was a Royal Marine in WW2 and used to drive buses in Bolton when back from duty.  They must of got poor wages and packed their jobs in, hence the Windrush needed. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Wasn't part of that down to those that perished not being available to then go back to work once the war was over?

[Dimron]

14 hours ago, Breightmet Boy said:

My Uncle (dad's best mate) who lived in Motherwell was a Royal Marine in WW2 and used to drive buses in Bolton when back from duty.  They must of got poor wages and packed their jobs in, hence the Windrush needed. 

I don't think the army were that good payers! 

When I used to speak with veterans, a common theme was "we did our bit" and that probably carried over post war... people earned less money but we had won a world war, we were still alive and rebuilding our country with a National Health Service, equal schooling and homes fit for heroes... although the country was bankrupt I believe there was more of a feel good factor.

[BobyBrno]

12 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I don't think the army were that good payers! 

When I used to speak with veterans, a common theme was "we did our bit" and that probably carried over post war... people earned less money but we had won a world war, we were still alive and rebuilding our country with a National Health Service, equal schooling and homes fit for heroes... although the country was bankrupt I believe there was more of a feel good factor.

Apart from ‘doing their bit’ many, including Dad and two uncles spent their teenage years in service. Dad was 21 when the war ended. No further education or trade. Many then went into low paid jobs and remained that way for years. 

[Dimron]

Sorry to bore you but the picture I put up was actually in Holland after the Normandy Campaign.

After the war, a Sergeant in Dad's Troop settled in Bury and named his house after a small Dutch town very close to where the photograph was taken... the buses driven by other former tankies used to sound their horns when passing.

From my correspondence with one of his descendants, he told his family he named the house as this was the place "where I nearly brought it" and would never tell them any more on the matter.

I never understood why my Dad disliked Holland and the Dutch so much, when I asked my Mum she told me "something happened in the war and he has never told me about it". Whatever happened it was probably very nasty and it went to the grave with the survivors... I now think I have a time and place where this might have happened and a trip to the National Archives to look at the War Diaries is definitely on the cards.

This is a photo from my dad's things (looks like the same queue of tanks) and it's probably the same Sergeant with his head stuck out of the top of the turret

 

 

 

 

[Dimron]

25 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Apart from ‘doing their bit’ many, including Dad and two uncles spent their teenage years in service. Dad was 21 when the war ended. No further education or trade. Many then went into low paid jobs and remained that way for years. 

It was a different world... life was less precious in some ways after the war, we had a crush disaster at Burnden and over 30 spectators were killed at a Farnborough Airshow... in both incidents the show went on regardless... could you imagine that today???

We was poor but we was 'appy 🙂

[BobyBrno]

6 hours ago, Dimron said:

It was a different world... life was less precious in some ways after the war, we had a crush disaster at Burnden and over 30 spectators were killed at a Farnborough Airshow... in both incidents the show went on regardless... could you imagine that today???

We was poor but we was 'appy 🙂

My Uncle Ralph was at Burnden in the Embankment End that day. He was also in North Africa with Monty. He always said that he’d been lucky to survive twice and wouldn’t take any more chances. He spent his life after the war down the pit and eventually died of Pneumoconiosis. 
Different breed, different generation. 

[Dimron]

Monty...

I remember our Dad making all of us kids being made to sit and watch a TV series about Monty in WW2 on a black and white telly... the only thing he ever insisted on... the troops  loved him, I brought his biography second hand.. I believe it was originally written in pencil on paper

[SatanGreavsie]

My owd fella was in North Africa, though with the signals corps so was probably more fired at than fired in anger. He always said they just wanted it done and hated Vera Lynn coming on the radio. But then said mood changed a bit when he got back and saw the damage to the UK and, of course, the full horror of what the Germans had been up to. Always used to relate the time he saw his mate back too far into a recently landed plane in some God forsaken airstrip and have hid head pulped by the still moving blades.

Probably why as a nipper I ended up watching this every Sunday with him. Theme still gives me the chills...

 

[Dimron]

I'm a sad case... I own the series on DVD 😞

War must affect people and families differently... our generation did not discuss things openly. I can only imagine what our parents went through before PTSD was identified.

PS... My Dad always respected the engineers and signalers, they were outside exposed to artillery while he was sat "safe" in his armoured shell

[MancWanderer]

A bit indulgent but my two favourite photos of my Dad

Just after he was shot down and the rescue party around the plane in the North African desert

[wakey]

16 hours ago, Dimron said:

I'm a sad case... I own the series on DVD 😞

War must affect people and families differently... our generation did not discuss things openly. I can only imagine what our parents went through before PTSD was identified.

PS... My Dad always respected the engineers and signalers, they were outside exposed to artillery while he was sat "safe" in his armoured shell

Not WW2,  but my dad's uncle was in the vanguard at the 3rd battle of Ypres (Passchendaele). His unit ended up cut-off and surrounded, and along with a few hundred of his mates, he was captured and was a PoW for the remainder of the war. PoW conditions were horrific even earlier in the war, so unimaginable from Nov 1917 onwards when Germany was on the brink of starvation.

I only discovered this when I started doing ancestry / family tree stuff a couple of years back.

Nobody in the family knew any of this - he never spoke about it.

 

[BobyBrno]

Can’t leave the Navy out. The Senior Service😉

Dad’s ship after being hit by a Kamikaze, he’s scurrying about there somewhere and docked at Circular Quay in Sydney after dropping off Aussie POW’s at the end of the war. He never travelled abroad again. My son has both photos framed on his wall in Sydney where he now lives. I always go down to the quay whenever I’m down there and remember him.

[MancWanderer]

1 hour ago, BobyBrno said:

He never travelled abroad again. 

My mum has never been away on a foreign holiday as my dad refused to travel abroad. Wouldn’t discuss it just said he’d seen enough of the world in the war

He relented only twice and that was to travel to Holland and Sweden to buy tractor units from DAF and Volvo for his business

[Dimron]

Ice Cold in Alex 

[bolty58]

8 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Can’t leave the Navy out. The Senior Service😉

Dad’s ship after being hit by a Kamikaze, he’s scurrying about there somewhere and docked at Circular Quay in Sydney after dropping off Aussie POW’s at the end of the war. He never travelled abroad again. My son has both photos framed on his wall in Sydney where he now lives. I always go down to the quay whenever I’m down there and remember him.

Just curious about the flag on the ship in the top photo mate?

[bolty58]

On 31/08/2024 at 02:19, Dimron said:

Monty...

I remember our Dad making all of us kids being made to sit and watch a TV series about Monty in WW2 on a black and white telly... the only thing he ever insisted on... the troops  loved him, I brought his biography second hand.. I believe it was originally written in pencil on paper

Appropriate time to mention "Monty, my part in his victory" by Spike Milligan? Well worth a read.

[BobyBrno]

7 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Just curious about the flag on the ship in the top photo mate?

That’s a good question. Not being a naval man myself, I don’t know. It’s not the Jap flag though. The photo and account of the attack can be found here. 👍
https://www.armouredcarriers.com/hms-formidable-may-4-kamikaze

[BobyBrno]

7 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Just curious about the flag on the ship in the top photo mate?

Just had a Quick Look as you’ve made me curious. It looks like the Kamikaze good luck flag carried by the Japanese pilots. It’s possible a similar flag was used by HM naval ships to show other ships that they had been hit by a Kamikazi. 

[Dimron]

What a cracking little topic this has turned out to be... I hope we get some more pictures etc... I find them fascinating (better than the footie at the moment)

[wakey]

We went to Rouen visiting friends a couple of years ago.

Fascinating to see bullet holes in the wall of the court house from WW2. Daft as it sounds, made it seem more real.

[BobyBrno]

Talking of visiting historical sites rather than reading about them, anyone going to Prague must visit St Cyril and Methodius Cathedral. Scene of the final stages of Operation Anthropoid. A few films have been made about it but to actually be in the crypt where it came to its conclusion is eerie. If you go after 11th November, there will be many poppies placed inside by various British Legions in the UK. 
https://www.praguego.com/honest-tips/church-of-ss-cyril-and-methodius/

[Dimron]

4 hours ago, wakey said:

We went to Rouen visiting friends a couple of years ago.

Fascinating to see bullet holes in the wall of the court house from WW2. Daft as it sounds, made it seem more real.

The lads in my pictures were in the Rouen region 26/27 August pushing towards Le Havre and the next big battle.

I read that one night outside Le Havre they largered down on a big field with a Panzer Division at the opposite end, it had been agreed the Germans would surrender at first light. In the dark an over enthusiastic sentry called out "Achtung, Who goes there"... the response from the other side of the field was a very tired Lancashire voice "Fuck off Fritz" with a following "Yah okay Tommy"... the rank and file troops are all the same when it boils down

[BobyBrno]

On September 1st 1939, Germany launched its invasion of Poland, starting WW2.

17 days later, the Soviet Union invaded Eastern Poland in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the alliance between Moscow and Berlin.
 

Nazis and Communists in a pact. The ultimate horseshoe moment. 

It didn’t last.