New Poll - Evatt

[Stig]

5 hours ago, Zog1 said:

When we were first promoted playing 4231, we struggled, so in Jan 2022 IE switched us to 532. It worked and made us conceded less goals. Opposition teams were confused, they were being attacked from what they viewed as a defensive formation.

However, once teams figured out what we were doing, they kept getting better and better. This was then masked by a massive improvement in the players in the 22/23 season, with us signing players more suited to that new formation, followed by another increase 23/24 which coupled with that years lack of big clubs.

This in total has created an illusion of a team getting better and better, a team in 9th, then 5th and 3rd. The players are better sure, but the team is now being held back by a manager out of his depth.

 

Last season really was an odd one. While we came 3rd I agree we didn't improve in general play. It was just such a weak league, so the beatings by the better teams were less frequent as there weren't as many. And it took a lot of the lower teams time to figure out the semi pressing that ultimately nullified us in the play off final and in plenty of "easier" games before that too.

And yet we still came 3rd and the top 2 weren't anything special like we'd seen in previous years. The league was there on a plate last season if we had a more adaptable manager.

This season is way tougher, whoever manages us

[Ani]

15 minutes ago, tomski said:

Taking out the ‘I called it 2 years ago bit’ as I’ve no idea if he had or hasn’t. (Im included to say he did)His last few posts are absolutely spot on sadly.

We have been sussed out.

If you take the subjectivity out of the narrative, it can’t be argued mate.

How is a team finishing 9th , 5th and 3rd an illusion ? We have got better, maybe not as much as we would like and/or expect but it is a team that is getting better. Has IE hit his glass ceiling ? It looks like it at the moment, we will either see in coming weeks or we won't depending on what FV decide. 

[tomski]

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

How is a team finishing 9th , 5th and 3rd an illusion ? We have got better, maybe not as much as we would like and/or expect but it is a team that is getting better. Has IE hit his glass ceiling ? It looks like it at the moment, we will either see in coming weeks or we won't depending on what FV decide. 

Those higher positions have achieved nothing though. We failed to achieve the actual aim. At least twice (I’d say 3 times as I think he blew the play offs the year before too) Also I think the link to a weaker league each season is fair too.

I think saying we are better is in the eye of the beholder as I’m struggling to agree with that.

IE hit his ceiling a while ago. As Zog mentions. If we are getting better each season, then we are going up? Never happening.

[desperado]

30 minutes ago, tomski said:

Taking out the ‘I called it 2 years ago bit’ as I’ve no idea if he had or hasn’t. (Im included to say he did)His last few posts are absolutely spot on sadly.

We have been sussed out.

If you take the subjectivity out of the narrative, it can’t be argued mate.

If you and @radcliffe white are aligning yourself with him then it’s a sad day.

I don’t think either of you come across as “I told you so” merchants.

Neither of you try to pretend that if IE had done it your way we’d be in a better position.

Both of you are passionate, come on here rain or shine, share in the memories of the good days, share your exploits of great away days (and some poor ones).

I wouldn’t recommend going back through his posts, but if you did you’d see fuck all in terms of banter, good time stories, enjoying a positive game/result.

If all you spout is negative shit you are eventually going to be right - he deserves zero credit. 

And I’m surprised you are giving any to him, just because his shitty narrative is giving an illusion that our current fortunes make him right. 

[tomski]

1 minute ago, desperado said:

If you and @radcliffe white are aligning yourself with him then it’s a sad day.

I don’t think either of you come across as “I told you so” merchants.

Neither of you try to pretend that if IE had done it your way we’d be in a better position.

Both of you are passionate, come on here rain or shine, share in the memories of the good days, share your exploits of great away days (and some poor ones).

I wouldn’t recommend going back through his posts, but if you did you’d see fuck all in terms of banter, good time stories, enjoying a positive game/result.

If all you spout is negative shit you are eventually going to be right - he deserves zero credit. 

And I’m surprised you are giving any to him, just because his shitty narrative is giving an illusion that our current fortunes make him right. 

Hi mate. Message may have been misconstrued. I’m agreeing with last couple of posts on us being east to pick off and too rigid. He’s correct on that.

I don’t align to any proved right theory as I just want us to win and being not very good is not for me. It depresses me far more than it should these days

I can still remain objective on Evatt but little is left to be balanced on him.

[radcliffe white]

Yep what Tomski said

I just don’t know how to highlight a specific text that’s all😀

[deeane Koontz]

8 hours ago, royal white said:

I’ve just posted this in one of the other topics. The episode speaks about how teams try to copy Pep’s teams but don’t have the same quality. Keane nails it. 
 

 

 

Correct. Was watching random games not involving Bolton last season and this bollocks winding me up. It was pretty much every game teams were getting caught pissing about with it too

Think managers these days would rather be Little Poundshop Peps  than having an original thought for themselves. 

[bolty58]

28 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

 

Correct. Was watching random games not involving Bolton last season and this bollocks winding me up. It was pretty much every game teams were getting caught pissing about with it too

Think managers these days would rather be Little Poundshop Peps  than having an original thought for themselves. 

Another reason BSA would be wonderful. Big, strapping fuckers getting it into the mixer and causing mayhem. Back to the future.

[Roger_Dubuis]

9 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Another reason BSA would be wonderful. Big, strapping fuckers getting it into the mixer and causing mayhem. Back to the future.

He would be, but I don't think Sharon could even tempt Parky back let alone Sam.I did admire how well organised Parky had Wrexham defensively, that's the difference between a good manager and a not so good  one

[deeane Koontz]

23 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Another reason BSA would be wonderful. Big, strapping fuckers getting it into the mixer and causing mayhem. Back to the future.

Sadly his time has probably gone but Aye let defenders focus on being defenders

 

The thing is Sam had us playing football in the final third where it's at its most effective. Might have taken a direct route to get there at times. But you don't have the magicians we had if they're not allowed to play. Pragmatism init

 

I can just imagine what carnage big Kev would cause charging defenders these days whose sole purpose is to mince around with it. Most strikers press to close space his only intention was getting the ball of the fuckers 🤣

[Whitesince63]

Surely all teams play out from the back it’s just the way you do it. I can’t think of any team now where the keeper always hoofs the ball forward, even lowly teams don’t do that but this culture of standing two Centre backs on the 6 yard box is to me madness and only invites pressure as any outlets are immediately blocked. I can understand the bit about having possession but surely it only really counts in the final third not your own? A lost art seems to be a keeper throwing the ball out to start a move and mixing it up a bit, you see so little of that now. The crazy thing to me is that the solution doesn’t seem so difficult to arrive at yet managers like IE either can’t or won’t see it.

[bolty58]

2 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Surely all teams play out from the back it’s just the way you do it. I can’t think of any team now where the keeper always hoofs the ball forward, even lowly teams don’t do that but this culture of standing two Centre backs on the 6 yard box is to me madness and only invites pressure as any outlets are immediately blocked. I can understand the bit about having possession but surely it only really counts in the final third not your own? A lost art seems to be a keeper throwing the ball out to start a move and mixing it up a bit, you see so little of that now. The crazy thing to me is that the solution doesn’t seem so difficult to arrive at yet managers like IE either can’t or won’t see it.

I see it as just another trend like slashed socks and Vicks snot stains. A passing fad. Someone with the wherewithal will come along and buck the trend. Then it will be they who are seen as the trendsetters.

I reckon going back to Sams approach could reap rewards. Not in the fancy Dan Premier League maybe but in the divisions below. Fuck pretty. I want us up at least one more division. I always enjoyed our intimidating reputation with the likes of SKD and Abdoulaye Faye. Bring back the smack (calm down Gonzo lad).

[Rizlar]

I thought I would never say this but I am bored with football this tippy tappy shit nearly every team is at it playing out from the back all the time do something different every now and again! I watch football to see goalmouth action and goals not 70% possession being in your own half! Rant over ! 

[gonzo]

3 hours ago, desperado said:

If you and @radcliffe white are aligning yourself with him then it’s a sad day.

I don’t think either of you come across as “I told you so” merchants.

Neither of you try to pretend that if IE had done it your way we’d be in a better position.

Both of you are passionate, come on here rain or shine, share in the memories of the good days, share your exploits of great away days (and some poor ones).

I wouldn’t recommend going back through his posts, but if you did you’d see fuck all in terms of banter, good time stories, enjoying a positive game/result.

If all you spout is negative shit you are eventually going to be right - he deserves zero credit. 

And I’m surprised you are giving any to him, just because his shitty narrative is giving an illusion that our current fortunes make him right. 

Exactly this.

There's fuck all wrong with reasoned debate. But when you dissappear when the going is good and then reappear with the I told you so gang when the chips are down you just come across as someone who's had the knives out throughout and will just never be happy.

Zog1 acting like he's some kind of tactical genius point our  crystal clear as fuck negatives 2 years ago is just ridiculous. Every match going fan in the land has known our achillies heels and Evatts bad points since day dot.

But up until the pinnacle of last season the good outweighed the bad. Hence a 3rd place finish, shit ton of goals and a whisker away from promotion. All that in spite of our bleeding obvious flaws.

This season it seems the manager has tried to address those flaws. But in turn, for me, has neglected the actual good points that has seen us with year on year progression. It's a fine line isn't it.

All this cock waving telling folk I told you so is just pathetic. If we go on a good run now the likes of @desperadoand myself won't be on here taking a pop at any fucker sayings we knew it was hunky dory all along.

It's just football isn't it. We weren't far away last season. Missing open nets and seeing out massive fixtures with Cameron Jerome and Bod up front had fuck all to do with playing out from the back by the way.

Bod scores at Derby, Charles scores at Pompey we get promoted. 

 

 

[perth_white]

54 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

 

I reckon going back to Sams approach could reap rewards. Not in the fancy Dan Premier League maybe but in the divisions below. Fuck pretty. I want us up at least one more division. I always enjoyed our intimidating reputation with the likes of SKD and Abdoulaye Faye. Bring back the smack (calm down Gonzo lad).

I still really want it to click for Evatt and hope it does but I do agree with this. I can't see Sam coming back and I'm sure he'd be considered a dinosaur but if Steve Bruce is still getting gigs then there's no reason for Sam not to. I think his hybrid 451/433 could work plus he can adapt his methods and work out how to get the best out of what he has available (a nervous Campo flourished in midfield, the Reggae Boyz flying winger to a top left back). It'll never happen but.

[Cheese]

14 hours ago, Zog1 said:

An amazing vindication of the points I identified 2 years ago.

You registered here at the end of May, 2023 - 15 months ago. Unless you had a previous incarnation?

Edited September 6 by Cheese

[perth_white]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You registered here at the end of May, 2023 - 15 months ago.

Bringing the receipts. I did think he'd been here longer as he's been a feature directly after a defeat for a while (and only after a defeat), sad state of affairs really. I saw his first post proclaiming his genius and the only response I could muster was "I'll buy you a hat".

[Dimron]

26 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

I thought I would never say this but I am bored with football this tippy tappy shit nearly every team is at it playing out from the back all the time do something different every now and again! I watch football to see goalmouth action and goals not 70% possession being in your own half! Rant over ! 

I know exactly what you're saying as I've felt this wy since early last season.

Can't raise myself to watch it on a live feed never mind go to a match... I  keep the commentary on while doing other things... it all seems flat and lacking passion

[desperado]

31 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Exactly this.

There's fuck all wrong with reasoned debate. But when you dissappear when the going is good and then reappear with the I told you so gang when the chips are down you just come across as someone who's had the knives out throughout and will just never be happy.

Zog1 acting like he's some kind of tactical genius point our  crystal clear as fuck negatives 2 years ago is just ridiculous. Every match going fan in the land has known our achillies heels and Evatts bad points since day dot.

But up until the pinnacle of last season the good outweighed the bad. Hence a 3rd place finish, shit ton of goals and a whisker away from promotion. All that in spite of our bleeding obvious flaws.

This season it seems the manager has tried to address those flaws. But in turn, for me, has neglected the actual good points that has seen us with year on year progression. It's a fine line isn't it.

All this cock waving telling folk I told you so is just pathetic. If we go on a good run now the likes of @desperadoand myself won't be on here taking a pop at any fucker sayings we knew it was hunky dory all along.

It's just football isn't it. We weren't far away last season. Missing open nets and seeing out massive fixtures with Cameron Jerome and Bod up front had fuck all to do with playing out from the back by the way.

Bod scores at Derby, Charles scores at Pompey we get promoted. 

 

 

Great post.

We mustn’t forget that 90% if not more of folk on here are reasonable folk with a balanced view, they talk/post/read with an open mind and enjoy the reasoned debate.

The good the bad and ugly are considered and discussed at length and its a great place to discus all things BWFC

It’s what separates it from BN comments, Uncle Craig’s Facebook page and Twatter.

At no point should our backing of Evatt to get this right and turn it around be misinterpreted as being blinkered to his faults, not accepting of the current trend of poor results or knowing that credit is virtually empty with little time to get this right.

 

[Ani]

53 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I know exactly what you're saying as I've felt this wy since early last season.

Can't raise myself to watch it on a live feed never mind go to a match... I  keep the commentary on while doing other things... it all seems flat and lacking passion

I do think there is a massive hangover from last season. The back half of the season despite bringing in Collins was a series of poor results and performances. Even so we were a goal at Derby away from going up, then that day at Wembley. 
 

Everyone knows we fucked up, albeit the injuries were a factor these should not be an excuse. The numbers through the doors are incredible, but it is hard to get excited when we really should not be in this division, not because we are 'bigger' than anyone else but because it was all set up last year, relegated teams had issues, promoted teams not a factor. We needed a fast start this year to blow away the cobwebs, we have had the opposite. 
 

Add in the impact of the early kick offs and international breaks loads of good away trips have been screwed. I look at the fixtures and struggle to look forward to any of them. Sure will shake it off but watching 5 at the back when 2-0 down to Exeter really does not help. 

[Eavesy]

The loss of Trafford and Bradley shouldn’t be underestimated.

Baxter is a cracking keeper but he can’t deal with the ball like Trafford could.

Which leads to more pressure on the centre backs to play out and one less man to ‘play with’ at the back as Trafford could get involved. Which then leads to deeper centre backs and more fuck ups.

 

Bradley was a right back. Right wing back. And a right winger all in one. He got us up the pitch one way or another. 

[Dimron]

4 hours ago, Ani said:

I do think there is a massive hangover from last season. The back half of the season despite bringing in Collins was a series of poor results and performances. Even so we were a goal at Derby away from going up, then that day at Wembley. 
 

Everyone knows we fucked up, albeit the injuries were a factor these should not be an excuse. The numbers through the doors are incredible, but it is hard to get excited when we really should not be in this division, not because we are 'bigger' than anyone else but because it was all set up last year, relegated teams had issues, promoted teams not a factor. We needed a fast start this year to blow away the cobwebs, we have had the opposite. 
 

Add in the impact of the early kick offs and international breaks loads of good away trips have been screwed. I look at the fixtures and struggle to look forward to any of them. Sure will shake it off but watching 5 at the back when 2-0 down to Exeter really does not help. 

Agreed on all points... In addition to me it is how the football is being played, individuality appears to be stifled in favour of a "system" and it leads (in my eyes) to a boring watch and I just can't seem to raise enough interest... maybe when the darker nights come around and there is less to do... but as you say the new fixture times are another obstacle to a Saturday afternoons "action"

[Dimron]

2 hours ago, Eavesy said:

The loss of Trafford and Bradley shouldn’t be underestimated.

Baxter is a cracking keeper but he can’t deal with the ball like Trafford could.

Which leads to more pressure on the centre backs to play out and one less man to ‘play with’ at the back as Trafford could get involved. Which then leads to deeper centre backs and more fuck ups.

 

Bradley was a right back. Right wing back. And a right winger all in one. He got us up the pitch one way or another. 

We should have gone up with that line up but we allowed ourselves to be distracted by a mickey mouse cup, I was worried then that it could cost us promotion... yes 4 nil at Wembley was good fun but look at what it cost us,,, an injured captain and a bloody good defender unnecessarily crocked at the end

[Stig]

4 hours ago, Eavesy said:

The loss of Trafford and Bradley shouldn’t be underestimated.

Baxter is a cracking keeper but he can’t deal with the ball like Trafford could.

Which leads to more pressure on the centre backs to play out and one less man to ‘play with’ at the back as Trafford could get involved. Which then leads to deeper centre backs and more fuck ups.

 

Bradley was a right back. Right wing back. And a right winger all in one. He got us up the pitch one way or another. 

This is the problem with wing backs though, they have to be exceptional to make a 5 at the back work properly IMO. Bradley was, and to a lesser degree Fossey before him. Since then we've been struggling and 4 at the back would help the players 

[gonzo]

47 minutes ago, Stig said:

This is the problem with wing backs though, they have to be exceptional to make a 5 at the back work properly IMO. Bradley was, and to a lesser degree Fossey before him. Since then we've been struggling and 4 at the back would help the players 

Totally agree with that. They need to be absolute top draw to pull it off.