Shrewsbury Town (H)

[ianofcleveleys]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Fuck me has have everyone gone soft or what?

We've spent decades eulogising over John McGinlay punching David Kelly in what was probably the most reckless action ever seen by a Bolton player. 

We've got the battle of Burnden, Andy Todd smashing Stan Collymore, Diouf spitting in folks faces.

Everybody loves Warnock and Jose having a go at refs, Souness planting flags in the ground etc etc.

Evatt shows a bit of emotion and confronts a player who was being a total shithouse and he's clearly lost the plot and all that caper.

What a bunch of soft arses. What happend to backs to the wall, us against them?

It's not a good look, a manager doing the rutting stags bit with a player, but arguably been magnified because it was at the end of the game, cameras under the noses of those involved etc. In reality it wasn't much different to many kick offs that happen round the technical area in a game, if a bad foul's happened in front of it, or if a manager's held onto the ball when a player wants to grab it to take a quick throw.

Modern day of social media and intrusive filming of what goes on at end of game have a lot to answer to, I always make a run for it as soon as whistle goes and only found out about it later that night. In those days gone by, of Todd, Battle of Burnden etc, we wouldn't have known much about it till the day after and the Sunday papers. 

Their shithousing was of pantomime proportions, right up with some of Cheltenham and Barnsley's from a couple of seasons back, thought we'd seen the back of it with tweaks to the rules last season. Ref did add that 8 mins on and didn't let trainer on a couple of times when they were playacting but could have been a lot quicker to dish out a few yellows for it. 

I was more concerned on Saturday with the lack of Evatt's 'passion' in the players when they crossed the line and kicked off, given Atherton's post match comment that they'd been sent out to start as they'd done in last few games. It's more of an issue for me that, as a group, they can hear such a team talk beforehand then walk out, have their little huddle, and do the opposite. 

[thebells]

3 hours ago, gonzo said:

Fuck me has have everyone gone soft or what?

We've spent decades eulogising over John McGinlay punching David Kelly in what was probably the most reckless action ever seen by a Bolton player. 

We've got the battle of Burnden, Andy Todd smashing Stan Collymore, Diouf spitting in folks faces.

Everybody loves Warnock and Jose having a go at refs, Souness planting flags in the ground etc etc.

Evatt shows a bit of emotion and confronts a player who was being a total shithouse and he's clearly lost the plot and all that caper.

What a bunch of soft arses. What happend to backs to the wall, us against them?

To be honest, at the time i loved the Andy Todd stuff, the John McGinlay stuff, etc. I was 18 and full of pent up testosterone myself.

As a 46 year old working in management, I've no doubt mellowed and take a different view.

Regardless of all that, if we agree our end objective is promotion, I am struggling to see how removing Evatt from the dugout for 3 games can help with that. He can be as passionate as he likes for me, but Saturday was just stupid when it could so easily have been avoided. He has made his own objective more difficult through his own actions.

... but maybe everyone is happy to fail as long as we are not soft arses eh

[gonzo]

Where did I say I was happy to fail?

Did we get beat on Sat?

Did Evatts actions affect the game in any way?

[mickbrown]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Where did I say I was happy to fail?

Did we get beat on Sat?

Did Evatts actions affect the game in any way?

His lack of management nous did. 

[gonzo]

15 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

His lack of management nous did. 

That's fair enough.

Said it a million times, there's clear problems, we don't have to invent them too. Evatt going face to face with a player who was a total shithouse isn't one of them.

Us struggling to break down shithouse teams is a time served issue but that wasn't the problem on Saturday. It was condeeding two sloppy shit goals. 

How much of those goals is on the manager is for me debatable. We can't just blame him every time something doesn't go our way.

Edited October 8 by gonzo

[mickbrown]

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

That's fair enough.

Said it a million times, there's clear problems, we don't have to invent them too. Evatt going face to face with a player who was a total shithouse isn't one of them.

Us struggling to break down shithouse teams is a time served issue but that wasn't the problem on Saturday. It was condeeding two sloppy shit goals. 

How much of those goals is on the manager is for me debatable. We can't just blame him every time something doesn't go our way.

I don't necessarily blame him for their goals.

Killing the momentum with his pre planned almost to the minute, no matter what's happening in the game, substitutions is totally on him.

As for the altercation, he needs to rise above it. Was dickish behaviour.

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Ref did add that 8 mins on and didn't let trainer on a couple of times when they were playacting but could have been a lot quicker to dish out a few yellows for it. 

I was more concerned on Saturday with the lack of Evatt's 'passion' in the players when they crossed the line and kicked off, given Atherton's post match comment that they'd been sent out to start as they'd done in last few games. It's more of an issue for me that, as a group, they can hear such a team talk beforehand then walk out, have their little huddle, and do the opposite. 

I presume that was the reason IE kicked off.  Is it the 4th official that sorts the time to be added (so the ref wouldn't necessarily agree?).  I was fuming when he blew the whistle, on 7 mins 55 or so, and clearly the players to a man were too.  He'd spent a good 90 seconds during injury time having a nice chat with some of the players, it beggared belief that the time wasn't added on.  Its not like something major had happened (a brawl etc) and he had to give a severe talking to, it was all routine stuff but he chose to stop the play for that long, then not add it on.

It made me wonder how long a ref would talk to players/stop play during normal time and then not add it on. When a player is booked or sent off or just given a lecture, and you get loads of delays, do we as fans lose that time, as if its all part of the spectacle?  A poor do if that's the case, but particularly in injury time.  Totally open to abuse by a dodgy ref (not saying he was, just seemed incompetent at times).

[ianofcleveleys]

It was poor, almost as if he felt he'd appeased us enough with the 8 mins and didn't fancy them kicking off with him if he added more to that, despite, as you say, them continuing to try it on through that added time. He looked like a ref who hadn't been faced with that sort of industrial scale shithousery before and was overwhelmed by it. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

17 hours ago, thebells said:

No doubt, of course, that the player said something to wind him up. Evatt has created his own reputation which makes him a sitting duck in scenarios like that. He’s failed, as I expected, to fully take responsibility and recognise that HE is the core issue. He simply needs to walk down the tunnel at full time and that’s the end of it.

He’s a pretty good football manager (despite what some say) but by God he lacks any ability to self reflect and accept fault. Genuinely baffles me. 

Must admit, it was a bit in between. A poor effort at taking full responsibility and a poor effort of saying the player was a cunt and I stand by what I did.

All a bit meh though, unless it has unknown impacts within the playing squad. Chip wrappers in a few weeks.

Bigger issues with the defensive areas.

[thebells]

3 hours ago, gonzo said:

Where did I say I was happy to fail?

Did we get beat on Sat?

Did Evatts actions affect the game in any way?

🙂 You didn't say you were happy to fail! 

His actions didn't affect that game in any way.

My point was broader than that and I think I got it across. 

 

[desperado]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

A poor effort at taking full responsibility and a poor effort of saying the player was a cunt and I stand by what I did.

Well I’ve heard folk on the socials say there’s no way he should be apologising and criticising him for not being tough enough to back himself. And I’ve seen more folk having a go for not owning it and showing more remorse.

So he probably thought let’s try a middle ground and see if it pleases anyone! 😂

It’s another one of those where whatever he said would be criticised.

He needs to learn not to get himself into that situation in the first place. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

On 08/10/2024 at 18:40, desperado said:

Well I’ve heard folk on the socials say there’s no way he should be apologising and criticising him for not being tough enough to back himself. And I’ve seen more folk having a go for not owning it and showing more remorse.

So he probably thought let’s try a middle ground and see if it pleases anyone! 😂

It’s another one of those where whatever he said would be criticised.

He needs to learn not to get himself into that situation in the first place. 

He certainly does.

I just felt it was an odd approach. 

He said he couldn't say too much as there was a hearing, but then says enough to suggest t'other lad was being a twat.

In that case, say nothing about the incident and keep the powder dry for the hearing.

Say nothing more than a brief apology for getting sent off.