Assisted Dying

[Dimron]

I thought this process was democracy at it should be.. no party politics, just MPs doing their jobs.

No winners or losers, it will now go to the Lords which is how it should be.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I thought this process was democracy at it should be.. no party politics, just MPs doing their jobs.

No winners or losers, it will now go to the Lords which is how it should be.

Got other stages before the Lords. 

Not much would necessarily get done if every bill had a free vote.

Not every mp will agree with every policy, or part thereof, of their own government, let alone an opposing one.

Sometimes, party lines have to be followed.

[Dimron]

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Got other stages before the Lords. 

Not much would necessarily get done if every bill had a free vote.

Not every mp will agree with every policy, or part thereof, of their own government, let alone an opposing one.

Sometimes, party lines have to be followed.

That could happen as no government wants to be accused of referring "bad law" but I think the achieved majority says a lot

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why?

Passing on the views of those he represents, it'll never catch on.

Because we live under a system of parliamentary democracy where MPs are expected to scrutinise legislation and vote using their judgement on our behalf

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

It's interesting that, broadly, the committed Tories and the committed socialists voted against

[bwfcfan5]

39 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I thought this process was democracy at it should be.. no party politics, just MPs doing their jobs.

No winners or losers, it will now go to the Lords which is how it should be.

Yes - exactly this. Quality debate - whichever way it went it took all the politics out of it. 

[bwfcfan5]

47 minutes ago, Cheese said:

From the exact same article:

Backbench MPs do not normally get time in Parliament for their bills to be debated, but the Spen Valley MP's proposal will be allotted space after she came first in a ballot.

Yes it’s ’her bill’ but it’s pretty clear that this was encouraged by Starmer. It was the only route to do it. 

[bwfcfan5]

15 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

It's interesting that, broadly, the committed Tories and the committed socialists voted against

The not rights clubbed together against it. Which makes me think it was probably right it got through!

[Dimron]

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

Yes - exactly this. Quality debate - whichever way it went it took all the politics out of it. 

Yep, the journey has started.. I have made it very plain about the outcome I would like but it is all down to the will of the people now... I will work with whatever outcome is finally delivered as long as its fair

[Tonge moor green jacket]

16 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Because we live under a system of parliamentary democracy where MPs are expected to scrutinise legislation and vote using their judgement on our behalf

 

Maybe he is indifferent on the subject or sees the wish of the people as being of more importance than just his own.

It has to go to the next stage yet, where ammendments can be made which should help to shape any rough edges, so any concerns he or others have can be sorted then.

If it is the will of the people, then mps have the responsibility of making the legislation and good and strong as it can be. The health and justice secretaries are going to have to do exactly that as they will have responsibility for its implementation later.

[jayjayoghani]

58 minutes ago, Spider said:

Are they including gout?

Asking for a friend.

It's a weird word isn't it, gout. Wish they'd come up with a new term. I've got gout. Sounds like something from the Middle Ages. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

The bill seems to have been initially started in the Lords.

It was a private members bill there, just earlier.

Not sure exactly how this works and I've downloaded both to compare. 

I think they're the same but will have to check.

It is also worth noting that the ballot to allow the private members bill had to be well supported initially to get air time.

Starmer nay well be supportive of it being brought forward, but there were no absolute guarantees it would have been selected.

[bwfcfan5]

9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Maybe he is indifferent on the subject or sees the wish of the people as being of more importance than just his own.

It has to go to the next stage yet, where ammendments can be made which should help to shape any rough edges, so any concerns he or others have can be sorted then.

If it is the will of the people, then mps have the responsibility of making the legislation and good and strong as it can be. The health and justice secretaries are going to have to do exactly that as they will have responsibility for its implementation later.

The will of the power can hardly be determined by a survey of a tiny percentage of his constituency can it?

[Underpants]

49 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why?

Passing on the views of those he represents, it'll never catch on.

Is he going to go to his constituents and do a public vote on all matters? This vote was free and left to the conscience of the MP. What he chose to do was a complete cop-out.

[Dimron]

deleted

Edited November 30 by Dimron

[barryk32]

I've not read the 5 pages but this is something I strongly believe in so sorry if I'm repeating.

Firstly, I put my last dog down.  He was old, stayed in bed all day, pissing and shitting himself, didnt really know what was going on.  His live was shit, I knew it was time for him to go, he knew it.  When we were in there he was in my arms as he passed, it was the kind thing to do.

Secondly, my Dads in a home with dementia.  He sits in his chair all day, pissing and shitting himself, doesn't really know whats going on.  His live is shit, I know its time for him to go, on his better days he knows it, he even says he's had enough.  We drag him out though.  He was an incredibly proud man and there's not a chance in hell he would want this.  Oh, and he's paying about 1600 quid a week of what he's saved his entire life for the privilege.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

31 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Maybe he is indifferent on the subject or sees the wish of the people as being of more importance than just his own.

It has to go to the next stage yet, where ammendments can be made which should help to shape any rough edges, so any concerns he or others have can be sorted then.

If it is the will of the people, then mps have the responsibility of making the legislation and good and strong as it can be. The health and justice secretaries are going to have to do exactly that as they will have responsibility for its implementation later.

He stated he has his own views on the matter so he isn't indifferent

What he did is simply not the way an MP is supposed to operate - they're representatives not delegates, at all stages

He's elected to listen to the arguments made in Parliament, make his own arguments or raise his own questions if he wishes, read the bill in depth - something a majority of his constituents won't have done - and then vote according to his judgement

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Yes it’s ’her bill’ but it’s pretty clear that this was encouraged by Starmer. It was the only route to do it. 

So Starmer was so keen to table an Assisted Dying Bill, he asked Kim Leadbeater to introduce it via the Private Members Ballot, with a 4% chance of her being selected? Give over.

[Traf]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

So Starmer was so keen to table an Assisted Dying Bill, he asked Kim Leadbeater to introduce it via the Private Members Ballot, with a 4% chance of her being selected? Give over.

Starmer hadn't even nailed his colours to any mast last night and only made his mind up today after listening to the debate.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

9 minutes ago, Traf said:

Starmer hadn't even nailed his colours to any mast last night and only made his mind up today after listening to the debate.

He's long been a supporter of assisted dying

His silence on this vote was because he wanted the Government to maintain a stance of neutrality

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, Traf said:

Starmer hadn't even nailed his colours to any mast last night and only made his mind up today after listening to the debate.

He’s been a proponent of it for a long while. It’s pretty clear he has wanted this bill to pass. He hasn’t said due to government neutrality - but has repeatedly said his views on the matter are on public record, he voted for it previously. Pre election having ‘the debate’ was his personal promise to Esther Rantzen. 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

He’s been a proponent of it for a long while. It’s pretty clear he has wanted this bill to pass. He hasn’t said due to government neutrality - but has repeatedly said his views on the matter are on public record, he voted for it previously. Pre election having ‘the debate’ was his personal promise to Esther Rantzen. 

And? 330 MP's (across all parties) voted in favour. Why are you trying to make out it's some sort of Starmer conspiracy?

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

And? 330 MP's (across all parties) voted in favour. Why are you trying to make out it's some sort of Starmer conspiracy?

I’m not.  Just pointing out that he was always in favour of it and promised the debate pre election.

[Cheese]

14 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I’m not.  Just pointing out that he was always in favour of it and promised the debate pre election.

Ok. That's how it came across to me.

[little whitt]

On 28/11/2024 at 23:33, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Mad

 

Thats how it should be