victor meldrew Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 has anyone just watched this program.? how over the last 30+ years the west has f..ked up it's economy. we will be a third world country in 50 years. part 2 next week. if you have i player ,interesting watch
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 IMHO, we should stop relying on other countries to do stuff for us, and start back manufacturing again. I deal with China & India and frankly, I am sure I could get the goods made quicker, cheaper and be able to be more in control of the product, over here. Mark my words, it is going to happen, & if it doesn't then I'm bagsying a cave with central heating when it all goes tits up.
Mounts Kipper Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) IMHO, we should stop relying on other countries to do stuff for us, and start back manufacturing again. I deal with China & India and frankly, I am sure I could get the goods made quicker, cheaper and be able to be more in control of the product, over here. Mark my words, it is going to happen, & if it doesn't then I'm bagsying a cave with central heating when it all goes tits up. I also source products in China/India and Pakistan, and Pakistan is the worst to deal with by a country mile, however its the retailers who have driven manufacturing out of the UK I am old enough to remember when we made most of our textiles here in the UK and the quality service was a million times better than from the developing world, unfortunately retailers deserted our manufacturing for the greed of extra profit, the retail sector is still driving quality down lower weight products lower quality yarns and cutting any corner to squeeze more profit and dumbing down the quality. Ihave no doubt that quality manufacturing will make a comeback here in the UK and the sooner the better. Edited December 4, 2011 by Mounts Kipper
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Mounts, you forget how old I am. My first job was in a mill
Shaft Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I also source products in China/India and Pakistan, and Pakistan is the worst to deal with by a country mile, however its the retailers who have driven manufacturing out of the UK I am old enough to remember when we made most of our textiles here in the UK and the quality service was a million times better than from the developing world, unfortunately retailers deserted our manufacturing for the greed of extra profit, the retail sector is still driving quality down lower weight products lower quality yarns and cutting any corner to squeeze more profit and dumbing down the quality. Ihave no doubt that quality manufacturing will make a comeback here in the UK and the sooner the better. Is it not the relentless demand from "us" consumers for more for less that forces retailers to drive down the price they pay for the goods they sell?
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Is it not the relentless demand from "us" consumers for more for less that forces retailers to drive down the price they pay for the goods they sell? It all depends on what quality you want to purchase. Tesco sell you a sows ear for not much more than I could get you a simulated silk purse. The public think they're getting a bargain because it' a bit cheaper, but I can assure you, the difference in weight of a fabric or it's composition for instance means the difference between you wearing that product once or twice and it looking shabby and being able to wear and wear it. If you want fast fashion for a couple of weeks and don't care where its made, fair enough, but if you want something durable, which in my opinion is more cost effective, then cheap clothing is not the answer.
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I deal with China & India and frankly, I am sure I could get the goods made quicker, cheaper and be able to be more in control of the product, over here. Unless you are talking small scale, you couldn't be more wrong.
Guest Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 IMHO, we should stop relying on other countries to do stuff for us, and start back manufacturing again. I deal with China & India and frankly, I am sure I could get the goods made quicker, cheaper and be able to be more in control of the product, over here. Mark my words, it is going to happen, & if it doesn't then I'm bagsying a cave with central heating when it all goes tits up. The way China have rose to dominance means that they are likely to fund, and profit from, any reinvestment in UK manufacturing. It's not neccesarily a bad thing that the party is over, perhaps we can rediscover better values?
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Unless you are talking small scale, you couldn't be more wrong. Really So, how did we do this before? Are you aware of China's wage plans for the next few years? I have worked in the textile industry for 24 years, and network with others in the same trade, so it's possible I may just have a little more knowledge than you on this subject.
Shaft Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 It all depends on what quality you want to purchase. Tesco sell you a sows ear for not much more than I could get you a simulated silk purse. The public think they're getting a bargain because it' a bit cheaper, but I can assure you, the difference in weight of a fabric or it's composition for instance means the difference between you wearing that product once or twice and it looking shabby and being able to wear and wear it. If you want fast fashion for a couple of weeks and don't care where its made, fair enough, but if you want something durable, which in my opinion is more cost effective, then cheap clothing is not the answer. I agree with you. The worth of a quality product will endure long after the price is forgotten. But, amongst other things, Tesco's expanded clothing area at Middlebrook suggests that most dont agree. The public gets what the public wants maybe? Damn shame.
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I agree with you. The worth of a quality product will endure long after the price is forgotten. But, amongst other things, Tesco's expanded clothing area at Middlebrook suggests that most dont agree. The public gets what the public wants maybe? Damn shame. I'm not talking short term, I mean in the longer term. The whole Tesco issue is probably worthy of a thread of it's own. I think the public see the monetary value in the here and now, not the worth of the product in the long term. In time, I do believe it'll change.
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 it's possible I may just have a little more knowledge than you on this subject. It is also possible you may be wrong diddley wrong wrong. I'm guessing you are more "front end" than finance/costing.
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 It is also possible you may be wrong diddley wrong wrong. I'm guessing you are more "front end" than finance/costing. You've guessed wrong. Costing is one of my main roles currently. But never mind
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 You've guessed wrong. Costing is one of my main roles currently. But never mind Me too. Sort of. My assumption was based on your wild claims. You obviously think you know better than industry leaders. Fair play.
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Me too. Sort of. My assumption was based on your wild claims. You obviously think you know better than industry leaders. Fair play. Speak to Mary Portas, she's currently championing it. I did state long term, but no problem, you can choose to ignore that part if you wish. I'm glad to know you have a good knowledge of an industry you don't work in, well done to you.
SatanGreavsie Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Inserts "eating popcorn" smiley and cracks open a beer
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Speak to Mary Portas, she's currently championing it. I did state long term, but no problem, you can choose to ignore that part if you wish. I'm glad to know you have a good knowledge of an industry you don't work in, well done to you. Oh, I'm sorry. There was me bringing my knowledge to the table of actually being involved in the analysis of the cost of running plants in the UK and comparing that the cost of actually closing said plants, paying hundreds of thousands in redundancies, building new plants in China, recruiting the necessary employees ... and still being more profitable within five years. Silly me. You may wish to do some proper research on UK manufacturing plant closure and subsequent plant opening in the Indo-China region before spouting such shit. As I said, it's just a hunch, but I reckon that industry leaders might know a bit more than you. PS - Remember on those occasions you've said to me "you're talking shit!" ? Well. Back at ya! Edited December 4, 2011 by DazBobParr
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 As I said, it's just a hunch, but I reckon that industry leaders might know a bit more than you. Like Arcadia. http://www.just-style.com/analysis/uk-retailers-eye-domestic-manufacturing-skills_id110862.aspx As I said previously, long term, which you again have ignored. This is also a different industry to yours. & yes, I was involved in the moving of a factory to China. Daz, please do stop making assumptions, they make a debate seem pointless.
cureforsanity Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 This is something I've been banging on to folk about for years. I can tell the quality of the stock I sell to my customers has deteriorated significantly over the past 10 years. Yes, they love the fact that some of the stuff is cheaper or hasn't increased in price over 10 years but it breaks. Or doesn't work. The amount of returns I'd say is now 10 times (at a conservative estimate) what it used to be. I sell loads of laser toners for printers every month and I'm finding that my customers are deserting the cheap chinese copies in droves in favour of US or EU made original items. They don't seem to mind that they're paying top whack for these when compared with the compatibles, but - and this is the clincher - they just work! Same goes for cheap clothes and general household stuff. You get what you pay for. Mrs Cure regularly complains that I get through white shirts like nobodys business but they're shite cheap ones! No shirt lap to speak of so I can't tuck them in, so I look a scruffy sod. Ganzys are paper thin now and either wear through or bobble summat wicked. Five or six years ago I paid ?120 odd for a pair of Loakes gentlemans brogues. I've had these resoled once a year by the local cobbler with good leather and looked after them. They fit like a glove still and refuse to wear out (apart from the soles!) Then again, I tend to look after them which I probably wouldn't do if they had only been ?20. My owd dad has a saying - "they know the price of everything and the value of nowt." Couldn't be more true IMHO.
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 As I said previously, long term, which you again have ignored. This is also a different industry to yours. & yes, I was involved in the moving of a factory to China. Daz, please do stop making assumptions, they make a debate seem pointless. My initial post was with reference to your comment of I deal with China & India and frankly, I am sure I could get the goods made quicker, cheaper and be able to be more in control of the product, over here.:- Quite clearly untrue, unless, as I stated originally, you are small-scale. If, however, you are happy planning for 50 years down the line then that's amazing. I applaud you. (Genuinely) You're cleary a genius. Just leave the rest of us thickos to concentrate on 5-10 year strat plans.
no balls Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I wasn't planning for 50 years, so your assumptions have now bored me enough to no longer bother to engage. Feel free to call Cure & Mounts thick too if you wish.
Traf Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 DBP & NB should get married, 'cos they agree on fuck all. I now pronounce thee Daz Bob No Balls Parr.
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I would never call Mounts or Cure thick. Nor you. Relevant points have been made about the quality of product being made in Indo-China (can't comment on Pakistan) being poorer. Absolutely no argument from me here. But to think that manufacturing on a large scale will be brought back to these shores is incredibaly naive IMO. The most important thing, for all companies, is not shit they put on their mission statement. The most important thing is what the shareholders expect. Do the shareholders care if the quality is poorer? Do they fuck.
DazBob Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 DBP & NB should get married, 'cos they agree on fuck all. I now pronounce thee Daz Bob No Balls Parr. I'm too young for her and her tits aren't big enough for me.
Traf Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 But to think that manufacturing on a large scale will be brought back to these shores is incredibaly naive IMO. it can't/won't happen until the abolition of the minimum wage.
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