tomski Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Just fook off Im trying to watch ssn and have a relaxing beer and no I don't want a sticker. Sorry rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOWTUN BAKED Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 They boil my piss that lot. FFS just let it go, your compo's nailed on now, so just fuck off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjack Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Yeah, that's right, they're only doing it for the compo. If it was one of your relatives killed going to a football match and the authorities lied about it and blamed it on the victims for the next 23 years I think you might want some justice. For a club that lost 33 of its own in a disaster the lack of human decency in some quarters on here is appalling. Have a fucking word with yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatty Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 As much as I sympathize the blame can't wholly be attributed to the police. It was a catalogue of disasters starting with the number of ticketless fans turning up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOWTUN BAKED Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Yeah, that's right, they're only doing it for the compo. If it was one of your relatives killed going to a football match and the authorities lied about it and blamed it on the victims for the next 23 years I think you might want some justice. For a club that lost 33 of its own in a disaster the lack of human decency in some quarters on here is appalling. Have a fucking word with yourself. I think you're missing the point pal. My grandad was there the day of the 33, so fook off, I know the in outs of that day, so arses to you. We've had the discussions many times over on this site, so I'll not go through it again. But, to reitterate again, the police didn't kill 96, the shit Yorkshire safety non-certificate didn't kill 96 fans, the shit FA carrying on with the venue didn't kill 96 fans.... The jibbers did. Wake up sunshine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjack Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 The independent report last year which everyone has endorsed - including South Yorkshire Police - says otherwise. And anyway, it wasn't the first time ticketless fans have turned up to a game. An estimated 20 thousand over the official crowd got into Burnden in March 1946. Does that mean the teenagers who were inside already that day, and at Hillsborough in 89, and crushed against the barriers are to blame for their own deaths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 The independent report last year which everyone has endorsed - including South Yorkshire Police - says otherwise. And anyway, it wasn't the first time ticketless fans have turned up to a game. An estimated 20 thousand over the official crowd got into Burnden in March 1946. Does that mean the teenagers who were inside already that day, and at Hillsborough in 89, and crushed against the barriers are to blame for their own deaths? That's what our enquiry said; that the fans were responsible for the deaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjack Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Less of the patronising sunshine stuff, pal. As it happens, my grandad was also at Burnden that day, though that doesn't give me licence to spout shite. Read the report. Yes, some fans turned up late, pissed. That never happens at football matches does it? If the police had done their job and not let them all in the same overcrowded pen - when there were locked empty pens to the side - the disaster could have been averted. And then, as the police and ambulance service have now admitted, lies were told by those self same services about what happened and the victims were then blamed for their own deaths. Anyone who went to Hillsborough last season won't have been surprised that this could have happened. Even with a following of 2.5k away fans it was chaos trying to get in. SYP have seemingly learnt no lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatty Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 But the lies told were after the event- there seems to be a lot of emphasis on the authorities told lies but very little mentioned about the facts leading up to the event. Serious question - how many estimated fans had no tickets and what was the allocation ? It was a sickening disaster but doesn't seem as crystal clear as some suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOWTUN BAKED Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Less of the patronising sunshine stuff, pal. As it happens, my grandad was also at Burnden that day, though that doesn't give me licence to spout shite. Read the report. Yes, some fans turned up late, pissed. That never happens at football matches does it? If the police had done their job and not let them all in the same overcrowded pen - when there were locked empty pens to the side - the disaster could have been averted. And then, as the police and ambulance service have now admitted, lies were told by those self same services about what happened and the victims were then blamed for their own deaths. Anyone who went to Hillsborough last season won't have been surprised that this could have happened. Even with a following of 2.5k away fans it was chaos trying to get in. SYP have seemingly learnt no lessons. I'll apologise for the patronising sunshine comment, but I'll reserve my right to stick by my beliefs about that day. As I've debated with friends since, you can't judge 80's scenario with todays, if you weren't there you'd not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalfordOriginal Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Less of the patronising sunshine stuff, pal. As it happens, my grandad was also at Burnden that day, though that doesn't give me licence to spout shite. Read the report. Yes, some fans turned up late, pissed. That never happens at football matches does it? If the police had done their job and not let them all in the same overcrowded pen - when there were locked empty pens to the side - the disaster could have been averted. And then, as the police and ambulance service have now admitted, lies were told by those self same services about what happened and the victims were then blamed for their own deaths. Anyone who went to Hillsborough last season won't have been surprised that this could have happened. Even with a following of 2.5k away fans it was chaos trying to get in. SYP have seemingly learnt no lessons. Well balanced post in my opinion Mr Jack which considering it involved the scousers must have been hard but I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Spurs v Wolves 1981 F.A. Cup semi-final at Hillsborough. Eight years before 96 people died in the in the same ground: Edited August 11, 2013 by COYW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter only1swanny Posted August 11, 2013 Site Supporter Share Posted August 11, 2013 If I drive into a car doing 120 mph, killing him, after being chased by police is it my fault for driving that fast ? is it the car makers fault for designing a car to drive that fast ? is it the polices fault for not stopping me sooner ? think we know the answer.. "SOME FANS TURNED UP LATE"...hardly some... a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) "SOME FANS TURNED UP LATE"...hardly some... a lot... It wouldn't have mattered if the police had done their jobs properly. Liverpool played Forest at the same stage of the same competition, in the same ground, the previous season. There was a different police match commander in charge and there were no problems. The police attempted to cover it up because they fucked up. If they'd done nothing wrong, there would be no need to cover anything up. Edited August 11, 2013 by COYW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter only1swanny Posted August 11, 2013 Site Supporter Share Posted August 11, 2013 Last time I checked I wasn't a sheep... I don't need someone to tell me a stands full to realise that it is.. If an officer told you to jump off a cliff would you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffs Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Read the report. Yes, some fans turned up late, pissed. That never happens at football matches does it? If the police had done their job and not let them all in the same overcrowded pen - when there were locked empty pens to the side - the disaster could have been averted. And then, as the police and ambulance service have now admitted, lies were told by those self same services about what happened and the victims were then blamed for their own deaths. Anyone who went to Hillsborough last season won't have been surprised that this could have happened. Even with a following of 2.5k away fans it was chaos trying to get in. SYP have seemingly learnt no lessons. Lets make it simple for people who just do not get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolton va va Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 The police, the Hillsboro ground conditions and the Liverpool fans jibbing in, all contributed to the disaster.....though obviously nobody intended that innocent fans would die. What happened has been clear enough for years from several enquiries, & lessons have been learned, but the continuing JFT campaign seems only to be interested in absolving all Liverpool fans of any responsibility & piling the blame onto everybody else. Unfortunately there is now a suspicion that scousers are still trying so hard to clear all other scousers of the slightest responsibility for Hillsboro, has little to do with finding " the truth " or "justice " & more to do with an eventual compensation claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 The police, the Hillsboro ground conditions and the Liverpool fans jibbing in, all contributed to the disaster.....though obviously nobody intended that innocent fans would die. What happened has been clear enough for years from several enquiries, & lessons have been learned, but the continuing JFT campaign seems only to be interested in absolving all Liverpool fans of any responsibility & piling the blame onto everybody else. Unfortunately there is now a suspicion that scousers are still trying so hard to clear all other scousers of the slightest responsibility for Hillsboro, has little to do with finding " the truth " or "justice " & more to do with an eventual compensation claim. Pretty much my opinion. No one thinks that those who died were to blame for their own tragic demise. But the Liverpool fans who jibbed in hold joint responsibility with SYP and Hillsbrough stadium management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYW Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I don't need someone to tell me a stands full to realise that it is.. You wouldn't have been able to make an informed decision about it if there was crowd behind you sweeping you into that section. There is no clear line of sight into that centre pen. The approach is through a short tunnel under the stand above. That's why the police commander who was stationed in the control box inside the ground was supposed to let the police at the entrance to that tunnel know that it was approaching capacity, so that they could shut the gates and direct people to the corner sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sick of hearing about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Carlos Posted August 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted August 11, 2013 Only thing that's gone on longer than this is the hunt for Keith Bennett. Least that has a purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sick of hearing about it you'll also be sick of paying for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjack Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) I imagine the families involved were pretty sick of being lied to for a quarter of a century about what actually happened - about trivial matters like time of death of loved one and whether if those responsible for guaranteeing people's safety had actually been doing their jobs those people might still be alive. I'm not saying anyone deliberately set out to cause this - the police, the FA, the fans without tickets - just that when almost a hundred people are killed at a football match then it seems reasonable the victims get the whole truth and that those who lied, falsified witness statements, or were asleep on the job are held properly accountable. Sorry if that's just too boring for some people. This blaming of people for getting there late after a few beers I don't get either (I'm not talking about people who deliberately forced their way in without a ticket, but the many thousands who had tickets and were unable to get in for kick off cos the policing and stewarding operation was such a shambles). If you apply that rule then I reckon three quarters of those who were at Guimaraes on the Superbok or Munich in the bierkellers did exactly the same thing ie soaked up the atmosphere over very many beers before arriving at the ground just in time for the match. Does that make all of us potential Murderers (the word some seem to use interchangeably with Scousers)? Edited August 11, 2013 by davidjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I imagine the families involved were pretty sick of being lied to for a quarter of a century about what actually happened - about trivial matters like time of death of loved one and whether if those responsible for guaranteeing people's safety had actually been doing their jobs those people might still be alive. I'm not saying anyone deliberately set out to cause this - the police, the FA, the fans without tickets - just that when almost a hundred people are killed at a football match then it seems reasonable the victims get the whole truth and that those who lied, falsified witness statements, or were asleep on the job are held properly accountable. Sorry if that's just too boring for some people. This blaming of people for getting there late after a few beers I don't get either (I'm not talking about people who deliberately forced there way in without a ticket, but the many thousands who had tickets and were unable to get in for kick off cos the policing and stewarding operation was such a shambles). If you apply that rule then I reckon three quarters of those who were at Guimaraes on the Superbok or Munich in the bierkellers did exactly the same thing ie soaked up the atmosphere over very many beers before arriving at the ground just in time for the match. Does that make all of us potential Murderers (the word some seem to use interchangeably with Scousers)? "Murderers" is derived from Heysel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjack Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Yeah, originally, but Hillsborough gets thrown at them too - especially by United. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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