Qatar World Cup

[Not in Crawley]

For the North London Metrosexuals, might be a good listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001f4xs

Tune in now....https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

 

Just mentioned this podcast which might be worth a listen - Powerplay the House of Seb Blatter (he blames it all on Platini) https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0dfg11h

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Not in Crawley

[L/H White]

any songs been played on the radio yet?

gonna be weird listening to 3 lions going straight into fairytale of new york

[London Wanderer]

8 hours ago, bolty58 said:

...and, if you hadn't already thought of it, me (and I am sure many others with similar views on all of this woke bullshit infecting our football) have always wanted to see England win  another World Cup and they have always let me down.

This time I do not want them to win it for reasons previously stated. Might they go and do it just to spite me and others like me? Which one of us, to quote chief preacher Southgate will be on 'the losing side'?

Gammons? You mean lifelong supporters who have travelled for probably more decades than you have been alive to support the team?

Congratulations on travelling so far👍 That makes your opinion far more important then. 

Southgate listened to what his players were saying and supported them. The majority of England fans don't and never had a problem with that. Especially after the Euros final when it was a clear a problem (albeit from a minority) still existed. He was just doing what any decent boss would do.

The only issue was that we didn't push on after our first goal against Italy. That's what bothered most England fans - not the rainbow laces, not the anti-racism and not the exaggerated drama queen nonsense about some woke infiltration of football. 

get a grip pal - you've had a great life so far and nobody wants to die a bitter old man 💗 St. George needs you. 

[Traf]

9 hours ago, bolty58 said:

...and, if you hadn't already thought of it, me (and I am sure many others with similar views on all of this woke bullshit infecting our football) have always wanted to see England win  another World Cup and they have always let me down.

This time I do not want them to win it for reasons previously stated. Might they go and do it just to spite me and others like me? Which one of us, to quote chief preacher Southgate will be on 'the losing side'?

Gammons? You mean lifelong supporters who have travelled for probably more decades than you have been alive to support the team?

P, come on, man.

No matter what's wrong with the game/the FA/the management/society etc etc, you've got to want England to win, surely?

[royal white]

I still don’t get why we are playing it in Nov/Dec when the majority of the stadiums have AC. 
 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

I still don’t get why we are playing it in Nov/Dec when the majority of the stadiums have AC. 
 

Probably because in summer it’s even hotter and AC would have little effect on reducing temperature sufficiently… that’s my best guess anyhow. 

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Probably because in summer it’s even hotter and AC would have little effect on reducing temperature sufficiently… that’s my best guess anyhow. 

They have roofs on as well, I’m sure with the money Qatar have invested they will make sure it works. Then again I don’t understand why they have air con when they’re playing in Nov. The weather is like our summer. 

[Cheese]

They still don't know for sure if the Air Conditioning systems in the open air stadiums will work sufficiently once they're full of spectators.

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

They still don't know for sure if the Air Conditioning systems in the open air stadiums will work sufficiently once they're full of spectators.

There’s a way they can test that 

Edited November 15, 2022 by royal white

[Cheese]

Just now, royal white said:

Hardly a big deal in November though is it. 

Probably not. The Air Conditioning systems were mainly installed so they can hold other sporting events all-year-round. They probably thought it was too risky to experiment with packed stadiums in the height of summer.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

Not by a loooong way, they would like you to think that though.

This book, The Fall of the House of FIFA is very thorough on the subject - its bloody dry though, not managed to finish it yet! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-House-Fifa-David-Conn/dp/0224100459/ref=asc_df_0224100459/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310868039252&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=593585540459167938&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044978&hvtargid=pla-565117632855&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

I’m watching the Netflix series on it now. It’s just unbelievably bent and has been for decades. I don’t see how it couldn’t be though with the current system, 1 vote per country, which is mainly in the hands of 1 or a small group of men, and  is equal no matter whether you’re Angola or Argentina - there is always going to a huge element of “what’s in it for me”.

[Zico]

2 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

Not by a loooong way, they would like you to think that though.

This book, The Fall of the House of FIFA is very thorough on the subject - its bloody dry though, not managed to finish it yet! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-House-Fifa-David-Conn/dp/0224100459/ref=asc_df_0224100459/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310868039252&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=593585540459167938&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044978&hvtargid=pla-565117632855&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

well ok, maybe not sorted, but it's not like there's a blind eye being turned, or it's being swept under the carpet

investigations have been made, fifa bods have been implicated, investigated and in some cases banned

whether or not qatar were involved is still unknown, so I guess you could bang on about that, but there's new folk in charge of fifa and this shouldn't happen again

i.e. we can probably move on now

the fact you've linked to a book called the "fall of fifa" suggests folk have been on the case with regards corruption

so what's left to discuss in that respect?

[jmjhb]

Ecuador have called up a player called Djorkaeff Reasco

[Not in Crawley]

23 minutes ago, Zico said:

well ok, maybe not sorted, but it's not like there's a blind eye being turned, or it's being swept under the carpet

investigations have been made, fifa bods have been implicated, investigated and in some cases banned

whether or not qatar were involved is still unknown, so I guess you could bang on about that, but there's new folk in charge of fifa and this shouldn't happen again

i.e. we can probably move on now

the fact you've linked to a book called the "fall of fifa" suggests folk have been on the case with regards corruption

so what's left to discuss in that respect?

The current leader of Fifa is party of the same family from which this well sprung and has done little house cleaning.

There is lots and lots to discuss and to holf Fifa to account for. Corruption - from cosying up to Putin to deals still being made - runs through it like a stick of rock.

[Wanderlust]

4 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

It's not that as such, it's the hypocrisy. On one hand he's very vocal about being anti thus WC and the issues in the country and then takes money from it.

Although as has also been discussed Beckhams sneaky, less vocal way of taking the money is just as bad, if not worse.

Yes there is hypocrisy about this everywhere and it's OK to be conflicted, saying governments are just as bad doesn't excuse one from the other.

I've still not made my mind up, I'll watch our matches. At least (as has been seen on other threads) it's made more people aware about the depth of the corruption at every level of world football.

The real hypocrisy is that Brits pontificate about human rights and social values when our own soldiers are found guilty of torturing and murdering POWs and racism, sexism and homophobia are rife in the UK.

And as for taking "dodgy money" the UK spreads it's legs for anyone with 3 of our 17 protectorates in the world top ten of offshore tax havens and f*** all checks on companies that want to register in London like the oligarchs do.

That on top of hundreds of years of exploiting people and ripping off the resources of nations around the world.

And we think we have the right to criticise Qatar?

F*** off!0

 

[little whitt]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

They still don't know for sure if the Air Conditioning systems in the open air stadiums will work sufficiently once they're full of spectators.

COVID central 

[Zico]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

The current leader of Fifa is party of the same family from which this well sprung and has done little house cleaning.

There is lots and lots to discuss and to holf Fifa to account for. Corruption - from cosying up to Putin to deals still being made - runs through it like a stick of rock.

ok, had a look at the current president and aye, sounds like he's a dubious character, though to be fair it's something that can be discussed in the build up to and during any and all fifa and uefa competitions moving forward, not just qatar, could've been russia also

but, with this in mind, I will boycott the following matches next week:

Denmark V Tunisia

Mexico v Poland

Morroco V Croatia

Wales V Iran

[royal white]

9 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

The real hypocrisy is that Brits pontificate about human rights and social values when our own soldiers are found guilty of torturing and murdering POWs and racism, sexism and homophobia are rife in the UK.

And as for taking "dodgy money" the UK spreads it's legs for anyone with 3 of our 17 protectorates in the world top ten of offshore tax havens and f*** all checks on companies that want to register in London like the oligarchs do.

That on top of hundreds of years of exploiting people and ripping off the resources of nations around the world.

And we think we have the right to criticise Qatar?

F*** off!0

 

Is any of this legal? 

[Dr. Feelgood]

17 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

The real hypocrisy is that Brits pontificate about human rights and social values when our own soldiers are found guilty of torturing and murdering POWs and racism, sexism and homophobia are rife in the UK.

And as for taking "dodgy money" the UK spreads it's legs for anyone with 3 of our 17 protectorates in the world top ten of offshore tax havens and f*** all checks on companies that want to register in London like the oligarchs do.

That on top of hundreds of years of exploiting people and ripping off the resources of nations around the world.

And we think we have the right to criticise Qatar?

F*** off!0

Jesus, it must be quite a trial being you.

Is there anywhere that would suit you better ?

[London Wanderer]

24 minutes ago, royal white said:

Is any of this legal? 

Exactly. 
 

he’s got a point in where we send our money and who we let in. The Saudis at Newcastle for example. These things shouldn’t be legally allowed to happen here. 

but to say we’re similar and can’t criticise is beyond delusional. More than anything it’s an insult to the people who lose their lives in these countries because of their backwards laws. 

[Wanderlust]

Know your history. The British created Qatar as a protectorate and installed the Al Khalifa bedouin tribe as the royal family (the larger of the two bedouin tribes on the peninsula) I lived there for two years in the 70s when it was like the wild west, so they've actually come a long way towards our (alien to them) values since then*. Qatar stopped being a British Protectorate in 1971 but we continued to run it for years afterwards and still have a strong influence in the the Qatari government. I imported British construction materials to build the place - which was easy because we paid the British architects to specify British Standards so whoever won the contract had to buy the materials from us. Corrupt as f*** it was the British who profited, the British who cooperated with the establishment and the British who set the country on it's current path.

*An example: In 78 I met a young English public school lad who was a photographer. Brought up in London by his white English art dealer mum he'd come to find his father who he'd found out was a Pathan "guest worker" in Qatar so we helped him. All the "guest workers" lived in a cardboard and corrugated shanty town at the edge of Doha so we went there and eventually tracked him down. Didn't speak English so we helped the lad communicate with his dad in broken Arabic and they got on really well. Two days later, the minor sheikh who owned the land that the shanty town was on sent in armed guards and bulldozers, shot 15 workers and levelled the place. The lad's dad went back to Afghanistan but within a few years the first laws were passed to ensure employers had to provide accommodation.

Given that they beat and killed immigrants with impunity then, there are definite signs of improvement although obviously not as fast as we would like.

But don't delude yourself that we are squeaky clean.

 

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

The real hypocrisy is that Brits pontificate about human rights and social values when our own soldiers are found guilty of torturing and murdering POWs and racism, sexism and homophobia are rife in the UK.

And as for taking "dodgy money" the UK spreads it's legs for anyone with 3 of our 17 protectorates in the world top ten of offshore tax havens and f*** all checks on companies that want to register in London like the oligarchs do.

That on top of hundreds of years of exploiting people and ripping off the resources of nations around the world.

And we think we have the right to criticise Qatar?

F*** off!0

 

Whilst valid points, its not the government we're asking to critise Qatar - it's about people being made aware of human rights issues that are valid. 

over 6k people didn't die in the building of wembley, I have a lovely night the other week at the Admrial Duncan with a load of woofters all copping off and with their partners and not getting arrested.

So whilst historcially its correct what you say, it doesn't also mean the public can't point out these issues of social change otherwise we'll never move forward.

Its the sort of argument I'd expect from a sixth form student, lacking in breath and development.

 

[Not in Crawley]

3 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Know your history. The British created Qatar as a protectorate and installed the Al Khalifa bedouin tribe as the royal family (the larger of the two bedouin tribes on the peninsula) I lived there for two years in the 70s when it was like the wild west, so they've actually come a long way towards our (alien to them) values since then*. Qatar stopped being a British Protectorate in 1971 but we continued to run it for years afterwards and still have a strong influence in the the Qatari government. I imported British construction materials to build the place - which was easy because we paid the British architects to specify British Standards so whoever won the contract had to buy the materials from us. Corrupt as f*** it was the British who profited, the British who cooperated with the establishment and the British who set the country on it's current path.

*An example: In 78 I met a young English public school lad who was a photographer. Brought up in London by his white English art dealer mum he'd come to find his father who he'd found out was a Pathan "guest worker" in Qatar so we helped him. All the "guest workers" lived in a cardboard and corrugated shanty town at the edge of Doha so we went there and eventually tracked him down. Didn't speak English so we helped the lad communicate with his dad in broken Arabic and they got on really well. Two days later, the minor sheikh who owned the land that the shanty town was on sent in armed guards and bulldozers, shot 15 workers and levelled the place. The lad's dad went back to Afghanistan but within a few years the first laws were passed to ensure employers had to provide accommodation.

Given that they beat and killed immigrants with impunity then, there are definite signs of improvement although obviously not as fast as we would like.

But don't delude yourself that we are squeaky clean.

 

78? So only 44 years ago then.

As I say it's a point, but not a valid stance for not being able to look say some things in other country's are bad.

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, Zico said:

ok, had a look at the current president and aye, sounds like he's a dubious character, though to be fair it's something that can be discussed in the build up to and during any and all fifa and uefa competitions moving forward, not just qatar, could've been russia also

but, with this in mind, I will boycott the following matches next week:

Denmark V Tunisia

Mexico v Poland

Morroco V Croatia

Wales V Iran

Totally! That it wasn't was shameful

[Wanderlust]

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Is any of this legal? 

Are you talking about the British Protectorate system? (Cayman Islands, BVI, Bahamas etc?)

Technically legal, which is why the rich stash their money there - but dodgy as f***.

The top 10 biggest enablers of global corporate tax abuse

1 British Virgin Islands (British overseas territory)
2 Cayman Islands (British overseas territory)
3 Bermuda (British overseas territory)
4 Netherlands
5 Switzerland
6 Luxembourg
7 Hong Kong
8 Jersey (British crown dependency)
9 Singapore
10 United Arab Emirates