Mounts Kipper Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Let's wait and see what the DUP say. Some things have improved but, if (as Van Der Liar says) the ECJ will remain the final arbiter then NI is not being treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK then is it? No surrender. 3% of good will still be subject to EU rules according to the bbc. If that’s the case, common sense needs to apply… let’s see if the DUP have any. New agreement reduces proportion of EU rules applied in Northern Ireland to less than 3% European Court of Justice continues to be the final arbiter in disputes over these remaining rules Edited February 28, 2023 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Let's wait and see what the DUP say. Some things have improved but, if (as Van Der Liar says) the ECJ will remain the final arbiter then NI is not being treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK then is it? No surrender. Teehee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, wackerchackers said: That's right Cas. Although, a younger person is more likely to have a passport, driving licence etc, than an older person. You don't need I.D if you have a postal vote (yet), as your signature & date of birth as used as your personal identifier. The problem is postal voting fraud though. There is very rarely personation in a polling station. I brought this up the other week. There’s a lot who are saying this has been brought in by the Tory government to increase their chances of a win (how that is I don’t know) they then say they are going to refuse to vote as they don’t agree with having to use photo ID. Well I suppose they will have a better chance of winning if you’re refusing to vote based on the introduction of photo ID. Weirdos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Why would you not vote because of photo ID? Frankly, anyone of that mindset shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the first place. Bet they don’t argue about having their photo on a driving license or a passport or a grinder profile Edited February 28, 2023 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Spider said: Why would you not vote because of photo ID? Frankly, anyone of that mindset shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the first place. Bet they don’t argue about having their photo on a driving license or a passport or a grinder profile You wouldn’t believe the excuses they’re coming out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Tip of the hat to Steve Baker as well. He’s admitted that NI having access to both the UK and EU markets is the best of both worlds and an absolutely amazing deal. Imagine that, having unhindered access to a massive trading partner next door. At least he’s admitted, along with Rishi, that this situation is the preferred one. A surrender of sorts, maybe, but look how happy everyone is (apart from the DUP but they don’t really matter now) Edited February 28, 2023 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Spider said: Tip of the hat to Steve Baker as well. He’s admitted that NI having access to both the UK and EU markets is the best of both worlds and an absolutely amazing deal. Imagine that, having unhindered access to a massive trading partner next door. At least he’s admitted, along with Rishi, that this situation is the preferred one. A surrender of sorts, maybe, but look how happy everyone is (apart from the DUP but they don’t really matter now) NI is having a boom time - biggest growth area outside London in the UK. Businesses are moving there, that deal is amazing for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: NI is having a boom time - biggest growth area outside London in the UK. Businesses are moving there, that deal is amazing for them. Sunak has just said being in the UK and access to the EU single market is the best trading deal in the whole world. Err... didn't the whole of the UK used to have that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globaldiver Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Winchester White said: Sunak has just said being in the UK and access to the EU single market is the best trading deal in the whole world. Err... didn't the whole of the UK used to have that? And? it’s over, time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesince63 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Winchester White said: Sunak has just said being in the UK and access to the EU single market is the best trading deal in the whole world. Err... didn't the whole of the UK used to have that? Err… yes but we didn’t have access to making our own trading arrangements with other countries did we? Now, as Brexiteers always maintained, we have access to both independently. Win win innit? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Winchester White said: Sunak has just said being in the UK and access to the EU single market is the best trading deal in the whole world. Err... didn't the whole of the UK used to have that? Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Spider said: Why would you not vote because of photo ID? Frankly, anyone of that mindset shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the first place. Bet they don’t argue about having their photo on a driving license or a passport or a grinder profile It is a real issue though. We have low voter turnout anyway amongst some demographics - younger people, poorer people, less educated people and people who are more transitory - it's another barrier and will effect turnout. Its why the tories are pushing for it, the stats back it up as well. Totally pointless idea. Have a quick scoot on here; https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/voter-id/ Elections are generally very well run in the UK – there are extremely low levels of electoral fraud and people have high confidence in voting. In 2019, there were only 33 allegations of impersonation at the polling station, out of over 58 million votes cast. Adding a major barrier to democratic engagement off the back of so few proven cases would be a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Also - this is what happened at the trials the government ran; The government trialled mandatory ID at the 2018 and 2019 English local elections. In both years, participating councils required voters to bring a form of identification, with each area testing different restrictions. In total, across both sets of pilots, over 1,000 did not return to vote after being refused a ballot for not having voter ID. This scheme risks disenfranchising far more people than suspected wrongdoers. But it plays well to certain Conservative demographics - a bit like some of the dogwhistle immigration stuff, and because getting and ID won't be seen as a barrier for them and therefore they are more likely to get the candidate they want. As the piece says, its an expensive distraction, which from the government’s own figures suggest the scheme will cost up to £180,000,000 extra a decade. As the Electoral Reform Society (ERS) says, the kind of photo ID required is what older people are more likely to have. For example, why is a Transport for London Oyster card for 60+ travellers acceptable, but not a near-identical Oyster 18+ card? Voters who don’t have a driving licence or passport or various forms of disabled person’s ID – all of which are more likely to be held by the old – can apply to their local authority for a free plastic voter ID photo card. How many would do that realistically given the already low turnout. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation (independant body working around social change and poverty) also have concerns as their research shows that low-income potentional voters are much more lieklly not to have an id compared to richer voters and if you combine those without photyo ID with those who do that's around 1.7 low-icome adults who would be prevented from voting So basically, its a lot of our money to solve a problem that doesn't exsist, but yet the Conservatives are fully behind it. Ask yourself why, and you'll get the real reason. It massively helps them. Personally, I believe voting should be compulsory, not everyone does In understand that, but given what we know about who votes across the demographics, its still a too narrow base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 I'd have no problem whatsoever with Voter ID if a form of acceptable ID was supplied free of charge and automatically issued on the 18th birthday of every eligible voter. Implementing it in any other way is nothing short of an attempt to subvert democracy. What's the difference between this rule, and a future one that might say a Student ID is acceptable, but a Pensioners Travel Card is not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, Winchester White said: Sunak has just said being in the UK and access to the EU single market is the best trading deal in the whole world. Err... didn't the whole of the UK used to have that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, globaldiver said: And? it’s over, time to move on. It is just quite the admission from our current PM and Brexiter. He is right of course and good on him for resetting our relationship with the EU in order to allow this agreement to take place. 19 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said: Err… yes but we didn’t have access to making our own trading arrangements with other countries did we? Now, as Brexiteers always maintained, we have access to both independently. Win win innit? 😉 Well it is for NI, yes. Don't hold your breath on good trade arrangements, the two new ones (not rollovers) with Australia and New Zealand are crap and they couldn't believe their luck! You can thank the incompetent Truss for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, Cheese said: Amazing. The truth does come out eventually 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Winchester White said: It is just quite the admission from our current PM and Brexiter. He is right of course and good on him for resetting our relationship with the EU in order to allow this agreement to take place. Well it is for NI, yes. Don't hold your breath on good trade arrangements, the two new ones (not rollovers) with Australia and New Zealand are crap and they couldn't believe their luck! You can thank the incompetent Truss for that. I don't even blame Truss for that. At the moment we're basically wandering the world around trying to get a deal with anyone, anywhere to show we're 'open for business' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 30 minutes ago, globaldiver said: And? it’s over, time to move on. And it was the situation 7 years ago. Kinda makes you wonder why all the palaver just to circle back to the same place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globaldiver Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Spider said: And it was the situation 7 years ago. Kinda makes you wonder why all the palaver just to circle back to the same place. Hardly the same place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globaldiver Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: I don't even blame Truss for that. At the moment we're basically wandering the world around trying to get a deal with anyone, anywhere to show we're 'open for business' That’s one subjective viewpoint, I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, globaldiver said: That’s one subjective viewpoint, I suppose It is, sadly the deals we have struck so far show the problems we have. That's what's currently not subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted February 28, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, globaldiver said: Hardly the same place Sunak had been doing well. Until he got a bit giddy this morning and let the cat out of the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, globaldiver said: Hardly the same place On this we most certainly agree, but probably not in similar ways 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 41 minutes ago, Spider said: And it was the situation 7 years ago. Kinda makes you wonder why all the palaver just to circle back to the same place. I thought Remianers argument was that we couldn't get to the same place unless we were EU members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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