Politics

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, Sweep said:

 

Battery manufacturing facilities, at a guess

Possibly. 

We are a bit behind in that regard.

Two elements to that though- the energy supply to those industries. 

We are well down the road in terms of green energy to supply manufacturers and consumers who charge them up.

Certainly more to do in terms of both supply of energy and manufacture of batteries, but it's disingenuous to constantly denigrate the uk's efforts as being significantly worse than other similar nations.

Anyway, back to today's announcement; it is creating more difference between the two parties, we just need to hear whether Sir Kier will make a pledge to overturn the decision should he win the election. 

[Spider]

Wow.

What a speech that is.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I wouldn't like to second guess to the motives of this government but it does make sense for the UK to pursue it's net zero policies more pragmatically

The current trajectory would involve the public making (likely politically untenably) enormous sacrifices with practically no impact at all on global emissions

The sensible politicians seem to be realising this

The ban announcement worked a treat.

Huge changes to the car sector and massive investment in development and production if batteries. 

Long term decisions by companies requiring huge investment.

The belief that China isn't contributing is also a myth. It manufacturers and installs more "green' power generation than anyone else, and is the biggest supplier of batteries and materials.

Irrespective of what their co2 output is, there are many other nations working towards a greener future as well as us- we're not on our own- and collectively they can shown the way forward and make a difference.

 

[Winchester White]

Aren't major policy announcements supposed to be made in the HoC?

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

35 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The ban announcement worked a treat.

Huge changes to the car sector and massive investment in development and production if batteries. 

Long term decisions by companies requiring huge investment.

The belief that China isn't contributing is also a myth. It manufacturers and installs more "green' power generation than anyone else, and is the biggest supplier of batteries and materials.

Irrespective of what their co2 output is, there are many other nations working towards a greener future as well as us- we're not on our own- and collectively they can shown the way forward and make a difference.

 

I'm not claiming China aren't contributing or that we're on our own

[Spider]

7 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Aren't major policy announcements supposed to be made in the HoC?

Yes

The speaker has gone mad.

This was nothing more than an early soft launch for their election campaign but using Downing Street to do it, which is completely against the rules.

Its no surprise though is it? 

[BobyBrno]

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

The speaker has gone mad.

 

A bit harsh.

Anyway, increase in subsidies for Heat Pumpy things. Good for business?

[Spider]

1 minute ago, BobyBrno said:

A bit harsh.

Anyway, increase in subsidies for Heat Pumpy things. Good for business?

Yes and no.

The problems there is that the grant amount has increased but significantly there was no mention of whether the overall budget will increase.

The bloke I spoke to at Mitsubishi a short while ago is fckin fuming.

[mickbrown]

It’s all about him. It’s never ‘we’. It’s always ‘I’.
 

Interesting tactic given most of the country think he’s a useless little twat

[Winchester White]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

Yes and no.

The problems there is that the grant amount has increased but significantly there was no mention of whether the overall budget will increase.

The bloke I spoke to at Mitsubishi a short while ago is fckin fuming.

Bloke on the radio earlier said he had a Misubishi heat pump and his leccy bill is £900 a month! Fuck that!

[BobyBrno]

For the first time ever, I’ve started to research Heat Pumps now that they are less expensive. Unless Labour come in and say ‘we’ll give 60% contribution’ I’ll get my order in while the Tories are still in power. 

[Spider]

19 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

For the first time ever, I’ve started to research Heat Pumps now that they are less expensive. Unless Labour come in and say ‘we’ll give 60% contribution’ I’ll get my order in while the Tories are still in power. 

Gerrit done. 😊

We need every order 👍

 

[Sweep]

52 minutes ago, Spider said:

Yes and no.

The problems there is that the grant amount has increased but significantly there was no mention of whether the overall budget will increase.

The bloke I spoke to at Mitsubishi a short while ago is fckin fuming.

I visited an EV Charger customer today, and to say that they're hacked off is an understatement. The industry is already massively on it's arse, and now the can has been kicked at least 5 years down the road, the worry is that the sale of EVs will reduce even further. They've already recently had to lay off 30% of their workforce because of the down turn (sales are 60% down year on year), the worry is they may need to do further decisive action, as and when they get the full details (I was there at 11:00, before Sunak made the speach...but they already had a copy of it on the premises, not that I saw it)

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The ban announcement worked a treat.

Huge changes to the car sector and massive investment in development and production if batteries. 

Long term decisions by companies requiring huge investment.

The belief that China isn't contributing is also a myth. It manufacturers and installs more "green' power generation than anyone else, and is the biggest supplier of batteries and materials.

Irrespective of what their co2 output is, there are many other nations working towards a greener future as well as us- we're not on our own- and collectively they can shown the way forward and make a difference.

 

China are massively contributing as TMGJ says - they do shit loads with renewables - ultimately, almost everybody will get their batteries from China, as only they will have the capacity to produce what is needed. Europe will never get anywhere near the manufacturing capacity it requires, not within the next 10 to 20 years anyway

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not claiming China aren't contributing or that we're on our own

Many are. Which is part of the problem in how those who don't agree with net zero present things.

A knock on effect of worrying folk unnecessarily and presenting incorrect information.

I'm intrigued as to what your concerns are.

It might not be a perfect set up, but such a move has not been done before, so improvements will be continual.

A second industrial revolution is on the cards, and it's vital we are not only part of it, but heavily involved in the R&D too. An inevitable economic growth area.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

China are massively contributing as TMGJ says - they do shit loads with renewables - ultimately, almost everybody will get their batteries from China, as only they will have the capacity to produce what is needed. Europe will never get anywhere near the manufacturing capacity it requires, not within the next 10 to 20 years anyway

That's why new battery technology is so vital.

I believe that China won't have such a commercial advantage as sodium, iron and aluminium batteries that are being developed apparently provide better energy density, lower fire risk, and greater availability of raw material.

Big race underway to get such developments into the market place for obvious reasons. 

Lithium will still be used as part of the mix.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Winchester White said:

Bloke on the radio earlier said he had a Misubishi heat pump and his leccy bill is £900 a month! Fuck that!

Would imagine that's a commercial premises. Or a Scottish Power customer!

 

[Spider]

Apparently the government remain “committed” to delivering 600,000 heat pumps a year.

The maths is all wrong though.

Theyre just vague as fuck.

Labour have yet to respond, be interesting to see if they reveal their plan or wait until manifesto time.

Personally, I doubt they’ll get many better chances to lend a proper blow than this.

[BobyBrno]

9 minutes ago, Spider said:

Apparently the government remain “committed” to delivering 600,000 heat pumps a year.

The maths is all wrong though.

Theyre just vague as fuck.

Labour have yet to respond, be interesting to see if they reveal their plan or wait until manifesto time.

Personally, I doubt they’ll get many better chances to lend a proper blow than this.

When you say delivering 600k per year, are they saying manufactured in the UK or does that include imports?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Spider, I'm not sure you're reading the room- no way would they have announced this unless the voting numbers stack up.

For him to say he has always thought it was too soon leads to an obvious question- what wait 12 months into your premiership?

As above, the answer lies in the election of Boris' replacement. They will have been listening intently to "public opinion" and have decided it's worth the change, despite cheesing off some industry.

I really do believe some of the misinformation has stuck, and many folk are concerned their energy bills are going to increase hugely to pay for upgrades to systems, when they're not necessarily going to.

Capital outlay for a new boiler or car isn't necessary before the dates neither, its just that it's sometimes presented as if we all have to change beforehand. 

Edited September 20 by Tonge moor green jacket

[Winchester White]

23 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Would imagine that's a commercial premises. Or a Scottish Power customer!

 

This was apparently a modern house!  Summert must be wrong there.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

This was apparently a modern house!  Summert must be wrong there.

Aye, a billing error or some such. Unless of course he's growing cannabis in the loft.

[Spider]

13 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

When you say delivering 600k per year, are they saying manufactured in the UK or does that include imports?

There are only 2 UK based manufacturers of heat pumps - Vailliant and a smaller set up called Global Energy in Lytham.

Other than that, everything else is imported (Mitsubishi assemble in scotland but it’s the last 5% of the unit so can’t really claim UK manufacture)

6 years ago there were about 10 brands to choose from. Right now, y there are between 20-30 heat pump brands vying for the business, with more coming.

Octopus have just released a rather funky looking heat pump and have massive backing via investors.

Naturally, Brexit has caused headaches for a lot of the importers, but given the potential market they have been willing to go through the pain, but that increases costs.

As always, it’s not straightforward, any of it, so an announcement like this just causes aggro because it dents confidence.

Ill do you a great price though 😁

[BobyBrno]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

There are only 2 UK based manufacturers of heat pumps - Vailliant and a smaller set up called Global Energy in Lytham.

Other than that, everything else is imported (Mitsubishi assemble in scotland but it’s the last 5% of the unit so can’t really claim UK manufacture)

6 years ago there were about 10 brands to choose from. Right now, y there are between 20-30 heat pump brands vying for the business, with more coming.

Octopus have just released a rather funky looking heat pump and have massive backing via investors.

Naturally, Brexit has caused headaches for a lot of the importers, but given the potential market they have been willing to go through the pain, but that increases costs.

As always, it’s not straightforward, any of it, so an announcement like this just causes aggro because it dents confidence.

Ill do you a great price though 😁

Are yours one of the ones manufactured in the UK?

 

[Spider]

4 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Are yours one of the ones manufactured in the UK?

 

I don’t make them. I make hot water cylinders which are needed with each one.

I can get any brand at cost though as we work with most manufacturers when supplying their cylinders.