Politics

[Casino]

7 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Protecting and even improving pensions is in everyone’s interest. 

Of course

As is getting a functioning health service, a public transport system thats not a laughing stock etc

You reformers do know theres no magic money tree, dont you?

Im pretty sure my finances will take a turn for the worse in a few weeks and ill just have to suck it up

Just like relatively comfortable pensioners will

[BobyBrno]

8 minutes ago, Casino said:

Of course

As is getting a functioning health service, a public transport system thats not a laughing stock etc

You reformers do know theres no magic money tree, dont you?

Im pretty sure my finances will take a turn for the worse in a few weeks and ill just have to suck it up

Just like relatively comfortable pensioners will

Yep. The last lot were laughing at us. This lot are laughing at us and pissing on our shoes at the same time. Enjoy the sucking up👍

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Yep. The last lot were laughing at us. This lot are laughing at us and pissing on our shoes at the same time. Enjoy the sucking up👍

So you think Sir Alan Sugar should get the Winter Fuel Allowance?

[BobyBrno]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you think Sir Alan Sugar should get the Winter Fuel Allowance?

No. Neither should I. My MIL should though and thousands like her. We’ve been through it before. I ain’t going over it again. 

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, Casino said:

Of course

As is getting a functioning health service, a public transport system thats not a laughing stock etc

You reformers do know theres no magic money tree, dont you?

Im pretty sure my finances will take a turn for the worse in a few weeks and ill just have to suck it up

Just like relatively comfortable pensioners will

It isn’t hard to understand really but BB seems to be in some sort of bubble.

All our public services are broken and need serious investment (prisons, police, NHS, schools, water, transport). There is a 20 billion black hole as a legacy of the complete waste and corrupt practices of the last government.

This is going to take hard decisions and we are all going to have to take a hit. After all it is pensioners who will be requiring the NHS services at a disproportionately higher level than any other demographic. 

[BobyBrno]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

It isn’t hard to understand really but BB seems to be in some sort of bubble.

All our public services are broken and need serious investment (prisons, police, NHS, schools, water, transport). There is a 20 billion black hole as a legacy of the complete waste and corrupt practices of the last government.

This is going to take hard decisions and we are all going to have to take a hit. After all it is pensioners who will be requiring the NHS services at a disproportionately higher level than any other demographic. 

I’m in the same bubble that many Labour MP’s (more than will admit), most Trade Unions and many ex Labour MP’s are in. If this had been a Tory decision, this board would be in melt down. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

Reeves has linked the eligibility for the Winter Fuel Allowance to pension credit, but the result of that will be that over one million pensioners who currently live below the commonly accepted poverty line and who are not in receipt of pension credit will also lose the Winter Fuel Allowance

Brutal

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

No. Neither should I. My MIL should though and thousands like her. We’ve been through it before. I ain’t going over it again. 

She will still get it if she's eligible.

[Farrelli]

12 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

I’m in the same bubble that many Labour MP’s (more than will admit), most Trade Unions and many ex Labour MP’s are in. If this had been a Tory decision, this board would be in melt down. 

The reality is that the country is in a mess and very difficult decisions are having to be made.  It would have been great if that £700 million spent on the Rwanda policy (which achieved nothing) had instead been used on Winter fuel payments for pensioners.  

[mickbrown]

11 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Reeves has linked the eligibility for the Winter Fuel Allowance to pension credit, but the result of that will be that over one million pensioners who currently live below the commonly accepted poverty line and who are not in receipt of pension credit will also lose the Winter Fuel Allowance

Brutal

Why would people living below the poverty line not be in receipt of pension credit?

[kent_white]

39 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Yep. The last lot were laughing at us. This lot are laughing at us and pissing on our shoes at the same time. Enjoy the sucking up👍

How can you possibly have come to that conclusion after such a short period of time? 

Unless you're suffering from a terrible case of confirmation bias?

[kent_white]

15 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Reeves has linked the eligibility for the Winter Fuel Allowance to pension credit, but the result of that will be that over one million pensioners who currently live below the commonly accepted poverty line and who are not in receipt of pension credit will also lose the Winter Fuel Allowance

Brutal

Could it not be that she took the view that the £400 increase in basic pension might offset the loss of winter fuel payments this year? As they are a similar figure? 

I imagine that played a part in the decision on balance?

[Dimron]

58 minutes ago, Casino said:

Surely not

Starmer is in the pocket of the unions

 

Anyway, im still not having it that alan sugar should get the winter fuel allowance so in theory, im supportive of the move

The cynic in me says that as pensioners are more likely to vote tory than labour - the only age group? - then labour have little to lose pissing them off

And they voted for brexit

 

Agreed it should be means tested but for what is is saving it is hardly a "big decision"... a Big decision would be telling train drivers to be happy with what they are getting and eff off if they don't like it.

[BobyBrno]

8 minutes ago, kent_white said:

How can you possibly have come to that conclusion after such a short period of time? 

Unless you're suffering from a terrible case of confirmation bias?

It was a sarcastic comment in reply to a sarcastic comment.👍

[BobyBrno]

7 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Could it not be that she took the view that the £400 increase in basic pension might offset the loss of winter fuel payments this year? As they are a similar figure? 

I imagine that played a part in the decision on balance?

The expected increase, which is actually £320 after tax for many, isn’t paid until next year. It’s this years withdrawal that will have the most affect for many.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

15 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Why would people living below the poverty line not be in receipt of pension credit?

Because after so many years of  Tory government, the eligibility criteria is too low

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Could it not be that she took the view that the £400 increase in basic pension might offset the loss of winter fuel payments this year? As they are a similar figure? 

I imagine that played a part in the decision on balance?

That is one of the rationales offered

But the increase to the basic pension was introduced to bring the state pension closer in line with the rising cost of living, and was intended to be in addition to the WFP rather than instead of

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, BobyBrno said:

The expected increase, which is actually £320 after tax for many, isn’t paid until next year. It’s this years withdrawal that will have the most affect for many.

 

So it will still likely be a factor that was taken into account? 

Seen as the totals are almost identical? 

Notwithstanding when the payments are being made.

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

That is one of the rationales offered

But the increase to the basic pension was introduced to bring the state pension closer in line with the rising cost of living, and was intended to be in addition to the WFP rather than instead of

Paying for winter fuel is a cost of living though isn't it? 

I'm not ideologically wed to scrapping WFP by the way. It just seems to being given a hell of a lot of scrutiny in comparison to some of the financial decisions made by the last government. 

Mind you I suppose it's early days - so not much to scrutinise as if yet. 

[BobyBrno]

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Paying for winter fuel is a cost of living though isn't it? 

I'm not ideologically wed to scrapping WFP by the way. It just seems to being given a hell of a lot of scrutiny in comparison to some of the financial decisions made by the last government. 

Mind you I suppose it's early days - so not much to scrutinise as if yet. 

I brought it up again because of the vote tomorrow rather than the rights or wrongs of it. It’s the Labour Party MP’s and Unions who are against that are making the headlines now rather than the policy itself. Back in 2017, the Tories suggested the same policy and it was scrapped because of the outcry. Labour themselves, at the time, said a report showed that 4000 pensioners could die as a result. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

14 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Paying for winter fuel is a cost of living though isn't it? 

I'm not ideologically wed to scrapping WFP by the way. It just seems to being given a hell of a lot of scrutiny in comparison to some of the financial decisions made by the last government. 

Mind you I suppose it's early days - so not much to scrutinise as if yet. 

But it was in addition to, not instead of

If the Government want to make it a means tested benefit, go ahead, but ensure it's a properly thought out policy and that there aren't over a million pensioners who do genuinely need it who don't miss out

And don't claim there'd be a run on the pound if it wasn't scrapped as a universal benefit either

In the grand scheme of things, it'll save a relative pittance and it should be acknowledged that it's a political choice to implement it

[kent_white]

12 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

I brought it up again because of the vote tomorrow rather than the rights or wrongs of it. It’s the Labour Party MP’s and Unions who are against that are making the headlines now rather than the policy itself. Back in 2017, the Tories suggested the same policy and it was scrapped because of the outcry. Labour themselves, at the time, said a report showed that 4000 pensioners could die as a result. 

If there evidence suggesting the same thing now - then I'd be amazed if they were suggesting a similar cut. 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

But it was in addition to, not instead of

If the Government want to make it a means tested benefit, go ahead, but ensure it's a properly thought out policy and that there aren't over a million pensioners who do genuinely need it who don't miss out

And don't claim there'd be a run on the pound if it wasn't scrapped as a universal benefit either

In the grand scheme of things, it'll save a relative pittance and it should be acknowledged that it's a political choice to implement it

It was a political choice to introduce it. People who don't need it shouldn't get it. Simple as that.

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

But it was in addition to, not instead of

If the Government want to make it a means tested benefit, go ahead, but ensure it's a properly thought out policy and that there aren't over a million pensioners who do genuinely need it who don't miss out

And don't claim there'd be a run on the pound if it wasn't scrapped as a universal benefit either

In the grand scheme of things, it'll save a relative pittance and it should be acknowledged that it's a political choice to implement it

I agree. Although I'm not sure about means testing. It costs so much to set up the agency to run it that it offsets whatever savings are likely to be made. 

I'm sure they will have done their homework on this - especially as I imagine it runs contrary to their instincts. 

Let's see if it goes through and what kind of impact it has.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

12 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It was a political choice to introduce it. People who don't need it shouldn't get it. Simple as that.

Except the justification for scrapping the policy is that it isn't currently financially viable, which is a separate justification to one of entitlement or need

And if eligibility is tied to pension credit, as it is, it will mean many pensioners who do need it won't receive it