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11 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

You do realise that Churchill was all for a united europe? Also, yes we pay in £12bn per year but that more than pays for itself in seamless trade and easy access to tbe worlds largest trading bloc. You know, one that is within reach by road, rail and air in about an hour to continental europe and seconds in the island of Ireland.

The EU is flawed for certain and I would describe it as having a democratic deficit.  However, we should be inside and influencing its direction as the 2nd largest member,  not outside scratching at its leg for leftovers. Russia must be pissing itself at our naivity in all this, we are gladly downgrading our political, economical and diplomatic standing.

Oh and mounts, millions did not die for democracy,  they died to fight the nazi's ffs.

After all this though,  we need to leave just to end it all. Then we can all argue again as things pan out for the worse ;)

You have, unfortunately, misunderstood Winston Churchill.

Yes, he was for a United States of Europe, but this was not to include Britain.

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1946-1963-elder-statesman/united-states-of-europe/

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6bbabc-7122-11e6-a0c9-1365ce54b926

 

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I'll even name names. The following are massive cunts: Me. Bolty. Miami. Cheese. Kent. Casino. Kipper. Royal. Labour. Tories. Scotland. The Welsh. The EU. Americans. People from fucking Yorkshire

My last comment on this... There are people on here who apart from being Bolton fans I have nothing in common with & whose opinions I wheheartedly disagree with, however I would fight for their ri

And here we get to the heart of the sheer remoaner arrogance. Let's cut to the chase. You'd go to a court of law to stop Brexit because you disagree with the outcome of a referendum in which 17.4m vot

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12 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You do realise churchill has been dead nearly 60 years and the EU isn’t a united Europe it’s divided Europe and it’s developed nothing like churchill envisaged.

A simple free trade deal is what it should be, no need for billions to be thrown into a bottomless pit to have a simple free trade deal, you cannot negotiate from within the Germans and french run the show for their own interest. 

As for your last comment, I’m not even gonna justify it by attempting to debate it with you. 

You should have remembered that Churchill was in favour of a United Europe, but not to include us.

Edited by boltondiver
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Mounts, you keep saying "WE put more in than we get out" but you should qualify that statement by saying England.  Wales and NI are net beneficiaries and will be worse off when we leave the EU. 

I'd argue that many parts of the North of England will also be detrimentally affected.

In addition Scotland will go for independence as the majority there want to be in the EU.

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1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

Mounts, you keep saying "WE put more in than we get out" but you should qualify that statement by saying England.  Wales and NI are net beneficiaries and will be worse off when we leave the EU. 

I'd argue that many parts of the North of England will also be detrimentally affected.

In addition Scotland will go for independence as the majority there want to be in the EU.

You cannot break it down by region. We are the United Kingdom. 

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15 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

You have, unfortunately, misunderstood Winston Churchill.

Yes, he was for a United States of Europe, but this was not to include Britain.

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1946-1963-elder-statesman/united-states-of-europe/

https://www.ft.com/content/3d6bbabc-7122-11e6-a0c9-1365ce54b926

 

No I have not. He understood the need for a united europe. He also fully understood that the empire was in decline at the time. Even he didn't foresee how quickly it would demise.

He, like most of the time are of an age who look fondly on our empire but it is no more, nor should it be.

Boris and Mogg are living, or more accurately praying, for some sort of Eton based colonial past.

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Just now, Winchester White said:

No I have not. He understood the need for a united europe. He also fully understood that the empire was in decline at the time. Even he didn't foresee how quickly it would demise.

He, like most of the time are of an age who look fondly on our empire but it is no more, nor should it be.

Boris and Mogg are living, or more accurately praying, for some sort of Eton based colonial past.

Yes, but not to include us.

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2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

No I have not. He understood the need for a united europe. He also fully understood that the empire was in decline at the time. Even he didn't foresee how quickly it would demise.

He, like most of the time are of an age who look fondly on our empire but it is no more, nor should it be.

Boris and Mogg are living, or more accurately praying, for some sort of Eton based colonial past.

Empires end, EUs time hath gone. 

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11 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You cannot break it down by region. We are the United Kingdom. 

You need to remember that

Securing our borders except the easiest one to cross

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Just now, boltondiver said:

Yes, but not to include us.

I agree but that was then. But he was the epitome of a united europe. As things have clearly progressed since WW2 and the destruction of our empire we can only guess at his stance now.

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48 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I agree but that was then. But he was the epitome of a united europe. As things have clearly progressed since WW2 and the destruction of our empire we can only guess at his stance now.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

Same old.

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4 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You are happy to overturn democracy, something millions died for, happy to stay in the EU and keep shipping money to the black hole, when we could quite easily use the money being used to prop up the EU to improve things for our people improving hospitals and to pay for more doctors and nurses to look after our own people. 

Happy to overturn democracy? Yet another slur and assumption that all remainers are democracy deniers. You are wrong. I have not advocated a second referendum. In fact, I recall that I posted the exact opposite on this forum - that I didn’t think that a second referendum was the correct decision. However, if I voted remain, in your eyes I must automatically be a democracy denier. 

As has already been said above, I don’t know what you mean by millions died for our democracy. I think you’re confusing democracy (our system of government through elected members) with the national identity of this island (being under British rule).

And in my opinion we don’t ship money to a black hole. We do contribute to the EU but the UK benefits through trade and other relationships which has helped us prosper. In my opinion (based on reasoned analysis from remainers, brexiteers and independent bodies) we will suffer economically by leaving the EU, especially with no deal. As such, I voted to remain because I believe (amongst other things) that will give us a higher GDP and more money to spend on our own people.

 

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12 hours ago, boltondiver said:

Saying he against a No Deal

He is anti-Brexit.

He voted for May's deal every time. So perhaps he just doesn't want to be associated with the far right no deal extremists who are a danger to our national security..and anti-British in every sense.

As an aside apparently Boris didn't feel so well after his civil service briefing into the risks of no deal - especially after he was told that ensuring a supply of fresh food was not even top of the major priorities identified....when push comes to shove will the most Brexity of Brexiteers, bullshit Boris risk his premiership and push the no deal button - I'm going to bet not. 

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Far right in the same breath as no deal.

FFS, another screecher.

As for Hammond voting for the deal; yes he did, probably from a sense of pragmatism and certainly having no option.

However, just like TM, no intention of utilising the "no deal better than a bad deal" rhetoric.

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13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Far right in the same breath as no deal.

FFS, another screecher.

 

 

All part of the same strategy. Ludicrous when you consider that a large portion of the Leave vote came from Labour's 'traditional heartlands' in the North.

Plays into a narrative Remain plotters hope will influence the public - especially if they manage to get their thoroughly undemocratic second referendum when the result of the first has yet to be honoured.

When they are stooping so low as to suggest that a Leave proponent hasn't changed his socks for three days you must realise that there is no level to which remain guttersnipes will not descend to try to overturn the biggest democratic vote in UK history.

Edited by bolty58
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37 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Far right in the same breath as no deal.

FFS, another screecher.

As for Hammond voting for the deal; yes he did, probably from a sense of pragmatism and certainly having no option.

However, just like TM, no intention of utilising the "no deal better than a bad deal" rhetoric.

No moderate politicians are pushing for no deal. You simply have a band of far right politicians who have jumped on a far right populist message to try and pretend (lie) that no deal was what people voted for all along and is the only true Brexit. 

Do you want reminding of the fact that pre-referendum all the leave documentation talked about  a "carefully negotiated and staggered deal"? 

I'll comfortably use the word far right, given the nationalism that a no deal Brexit is so heavily entwined with. Its absolutely crystal clear to anyone who isn't in the far right extremist cult. Of which I accept there are many. But that doesn't make it any the less true. 

When centre right staples like Hammond who only a few years ago were considered the darlings of sensible right wing politics are being hounded then there is absolutely no doubt at all that this is a nationalist right wing movement and very very dangerous. 

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52 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Alan Duncan has quit his Foreign Office role in protest at Boris becoming PM, a few more to follow apparently. 

AD has worked with Boris at close hand and knows what a goon he is.

 

Johnson is going to have lift his game exponentially if he is to lose his reputation of a bumbling fool. 

The more i observe him the more i wonder if he was cloned from Trump's toe nails as they have so much in common

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13 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Johnson is going to have lift his game exponentially if he is to lose his reputation of a bumbling fool. 

The more i observe him the more i wonder if he was cloned from Trump's toe nails as they have so much in common

Not defending him, my jury is still out, but many think he did a decent job in London, so much so he was re-elected.

as ever, it’s easy to criticise 

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