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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Sweaty Ken


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9 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

 

But it also seemed odd that none of the shareholders raised the issue, in the Q&A, of the  525K consultancy fee in the context in which it was paid or how the company was going to be able to manage its liabilities with loans that were overdue and trade creditors more than doubled at 4.8million pounds. 

 

Why didn't YOU raise it? 

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17 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If you mean private companies, yes loads. I've chaired a few and explained the finances at quite a few more. But it was the first time I'd attended a Burnden Leisure AGM. There hadn't been one for years so it seemed odd to me that Ken should call a meeting, when one wasn't required, unless he wanted to make some point or other.

But it also seemed odd that none of the shareholders raised the issue, in the Q&A, of the  525K consultancy fee in the context in which it was paid or how the company was going to be able to manage its liabilities with loans that were overdue and trade creditors more than doubled at 4.8million pounds. The sale of Madine was a huge unexpected bonus but enough to cover expected losses and overdue creditors?

The new guy on the ST board said it seemed like a case of 'spinning plates'. I think he was right.

 

Bloke running company that has debts and loses money monthly is spinning plates?

What a shock that must have been 

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22 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 

Why didn't YOU raise it? 

I thought about it before I went. My main intentions were to gain a first-hand impression of Ken, see how he performed, see who else attended and what questions they would raise. I thought Ken had done a pretty good job so far, given the circumstances, and wasn't going to take the risk of embarking on an exercise that might easily have been construed as hostile or grandstanding and achieved nothing.

 

Edited by Chris Custodiet
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1 minute ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Not a shock at all but an improvement on some previous contributions from individuals associated with the ST.

Ah I see. Contributions from those with an agenda don’t really count for much anyway, however it does mean that Ken got something over to them/him at least

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2 minutes ago, jules_darby said:

Ah I see. Contributions from those with an agenda don’t really count for much anyway, however it does mean that Ken got something over to them/him at least

Sorry. if I have inadvertently misled you. The ST guy made his comments on GranadaTV a few months after the AGM. I doubt he was present at the shareholders AGM

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14 hours ago, ZicoKelly said:

I think the suggestion is he'll keep the club going as long as he can to keep taking the consultancy fees

Till investment or admin, whichever comes next

It's as much (if not solely) ED and that other fan that have kept us from admin so far 

Well done for interpreting my comments correctly, ken doesnt want admin of course and stay long as possible but unless he gets a buyer he’ll run out of time . Does he suffer financially if admin happens ? Anyway things cant go on as they are.

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10 hours ago, Casino said:

Go on, tell the class

Ha going on like he saved us? This is my main gripe that he was happy to go in to admin as I think he found a way it worked. 

Lets be clear. Other people paid his bills and saved his skin.

To suggest otherwise is a bit mentalist 

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To be fair, I probably took the original comment the wrong way, taking it as a suggestion that KA was looking to put the club into administration

However, you now raise another issue

My understanding is that KA did pay the bills

He may have borrowed the money, but he paid the bills

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I do agree with IT that things can't go on as they are, but I don't think that takes a rocket scientist to work it out

The rocket scientists need to find the solution

I always thought living within our means might not be overly popular long term

Edited by Casino
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4 minutes ago, Casino said:

To be fair, I probably took the original comment the wrong way, taking it as a suggestion that KA was looking to put the club into administration

However, you now raise another issue

My understanding is that KA did pay the bills

He may have borrowed the money, but he paid the bills

So the next question. Is the loan personal or against the club?

If we go into admin does he still have to pay his loan back?

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So far as we know, it's a personal loan to KA

That deal has nothing to do with the club

He's then, allegedly, loaned that money to the club

I suspect that he would join the list of creditors if we went bust

At least that's my understanding

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5 minutes ago, Casino said:

I always thought living within our means might not be overly popular long term

I think that's where the notion of screwing the club comes from

Is 650k in consultancy fees in one season doing that? that one can be argued either way depending on if you are pro or anti KA

Be interesting to see in the next accounts if there waa a fee for 2017/18, and if it's the same or much more

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7 minutes ago, Casino said:

To be fair, I probably took the original comment the wrong way, taking it as a suggestion that KA was looking to put the club into administration

However, you now raise another issue

My understanding is that KA did pay the bills

He may have borrowed the money, but he paid the bills

I don't think he tried but I think he found a way it could work (oddly as I think he is an administrator we may of seen the best of him) 

i just can't believe how happy or how close he came to gambling our future.

 

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37 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

I think that's where the notion of screwing the club comes from

Is 650k in consultancy fees in one season doing that? that one can be argued either way depending on if you are pro or anti KA

Be interesting to see in the next accounts if there waa a fee for 2017/18, and if it's the same or much more

Let me try to explain the AGM comments a bit further. When organisations or individuals running organisations want to keep financial information secret or as low  key as possible there are a number of tactics they can employ. If they are obliged to supply financial information, they can supply the absolute bare minimum and delay its publication to the very last minute, by which time its often regarded as historic and of no current interest. If they don't have to hold AGMs, they don't hold them. If they are required to hold AGMs they can try to stage-manage the meetings to avoid awkward questions.

Ken did exactly the opposite in filing the accounts of Inner Circle Investments Ltd well before the final due date for filing and holding an AGM of Burnden Leisure when he didn't  need to. Why? Was it because he wanted to show, without being too pointed about it, that the 525k paid in consultancy fees was not being trousered by him but was needed to buy off Holdsworth and/or Quantuma (liquidator of Sports Shield BWFC) and agree substantially reduced interest charges and deferral of the BluMarble debt until 1 September 2018?

Edited by Chris Custodiet
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1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Let me try to explain the AGM comments a bit further. When organisations or individuals running organisations want to keep financial information secret or as low  key as possible there are a number of tactics they can employ. If they are obliged to supply financial information, they can supply the absolute bare minimum and delay its publication to the very last minute, by which time its often regarded as historic and of no current interest. If they don't have to hold AGMs, they don't hold them. If they are required to hold AGMs they can try to stage-manage the meetings to avoid awkward questions.

Ken did exactly the opposite in filing the accounts of Inner Circle Investments Ltd well before the final due date for filing and holding an AGM of Burnden Leisure when he didn't  need to. Why? Was it because he wanted to show, without being too pointed about it, that the 525k paid in consultancy fees was not being trousered by him but was needed to buy off Holdsworth and/or Quantuma (liquidator of Sports Shield BWFC) and agree substantially reduced interest charges and deferral of the BluMarble debt until 1 September 2018?

Not sure though the accounts clearly showed a 50k payment to DH which probably covers payments made to him

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17 hours ago, ZicoKelly said:

Not sure though the accounts clearly showed a 50k payment to DH which probably covers payments made to him

You aren't being serious, are you Zico? Put aside the 50K compensation for losing his 250K p.a. job (plus his legal fees), have you forgotten about the other 250k paid to him a couple of months after the takeover?  Set aside also the 150,000 paid to the liquidator of Sports Shield BWFC, who do you think was the beneficiary of the 472,250 pounds Inner Circle Investments Ltd spent on Holdsworth's shares?

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26 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

You aren't being serious, are you Zico? Put aside the 50K compensation for losing his 250K p.a. job (plus his legal fees), have you forgotten about the other 250k paid to him a couple of months after the takeover?  Set aside also the 150,000 paid to the liquidator of Sports Shield BWFC, who do you think was the beneficiary of the 472,250 pounds Inner Circle Investments Ltd spent on Holdsworth's shares?

Does anyone care?

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1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

You aren't being serious, are you Zico? Put aside the 50K compensation for losing his 250K p.a. job (plus his legal fees), have you forgotten about the other 250k paid to him a couple of months after the takeover?  Set aside also the 150,000 paid to the liquidator of Sports Shield BWFC, who do you think was the beneficiary of the 472,250 pounds Inner Circle Investments Ltd spent on Holdsworth's shares?

I was being as serious as my limited understanding of the accounts goes, yes

I certainly don't think DH got nearly 500k out of KA

I wouldn't put my life on it or anything, I think trying to second guess what KA is up to is a futile exercise for the most part, but passes the time on here

I'm looking forward to seeing the next accounts though, and what the fee was this year

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8 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

I was being as serious as my limited understanding of the accounts goes, yes

I certainly don't think DH got nearly 500k out of KA

I wouldn't put my life on it or anything, I think trying to second guess what KA is up to is a futile exercise for the most part, but passes the time on here

I'm looking forward to seeing the next accounts though, and what the fee was this year

If you don't know much about accounts, try asking someone who does what this means:

image.png.6725f034e92704dde6dde18c64e329b7.png

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45 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

Chris, what does that mean?

It means that in the year ended 30 Septemer 2017, Ken's company spent 472,275 pounds on investments.

This is what another note says the investment is:

 

image.png.9d3216103bdafd5f52bfd34a0aea598e.png

The statement that 'the investment is reflected at cost' is interesting.  I wouldn't want to speculate on what the 70,277 reduction in the carrying value is but the company reported a loss of 72,277 so I think these figures are linked for some reason. You will however note that this period coincides with Ken taking a (taxable) 525,000 consultancy fee from Burnden Leisure.

We''ll have to wait and see what consultancy fees appear in the next accounts but Ken might well think that the huge gain on the Madine sale, the massive reduction in interest charges and turning an actual profit for the first time in years will merit something for the Anderson family..

Edited by Chris Custodiet
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1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

It means that in the year ended 30 Septemer 2017, Ken's company spent 472,275 pounds on investments.

This is what another note says the investment is:

 

image.png.9d3216103bdafd5f52bfd34a0aea598e.png

The statement that 'the investment is reflected at cost' is interesting.  I wouldn't want to speculate on what the 70,277 reduction in the carrying value is but the company reported a loss of 72,277 so I think these figures are linked for some reason. You will however note that this period coincides with Ken taking a (taxable) 525,000 consultancy fee from Burnden Leisure.

We''ll have to wait and see what consultancy fees appear in the next accounts but Ken might well think that the huge gain on the Madine sale, the massive reduction in interest charges and turning an actual profit for the first time in years will merit something for the Anderson family..

good insight that

I still find it hard to believe DH will have got £402k, in addition to the £50k pay off, in addition to a salary, in addition to the rumoured chunk he kept from the pay day loan

and more so that KA failed to mention at any point how much DH milked the club for when they were airing their dirty laundry, or since when talking about who takes what out the club, given he's not shy in having pops at folk

I'm also skeptical that he's not taken any payments so far (as he alluded to in the recent GMR interview)

but if that's what the he and the books say, fair enough, hope for his sake he finds us a buyer and soon though, otherwise he's going to probably end up with nothing for all his efforts...

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