birch-chorley Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, Casino said: You dont think the gap between the ins and outs has been greatly reduced? In cash terms yes, as a % of turnover probably not as big as you’d think as we had parachute payments when he came in didn’t we? A lot of the high earners contracts were up anyway the first year of his reign anyway Besides, that’s not cash flow is it? Based on the fact we continually seemed to struggle to pay wages and other bills on time it would suggest to me that we have had very poor cash flow over his three years in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I’m not sure you could say that Ken has stabilised the clubs cash flow Without looking at the accounts, you’d expect the massive increase in activity at the stadium and reduced wage bill to have achieved that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I’m not sure you could say that Ken has stabilised the clubs cash flow Course it has. He’s renegotiated deal after deal. Absolutely shed Loads that hasn’t made the public domain. We are losing less money now than we were. We might still struggle to pay the bills and have to rob Peter to pay Paul just get through week to week, but that’s not his fault. He could’ve gone down the austerity route and sold everything he could and not reinvested and single penny and kept the club running that way. But between him and his lad they’ve managed to assemble 2-3 squads that gained relative success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Find it difficult to believe that ED would have had us liquidated before Ken and Deano took over I’m basing that on the fact he still ended up bank rolling Ken over the next three years That just doesn’t make sense Any road, how big is this war chest Huge difference Birch in ED bankrolling the club with no hope or sight of getting it back. Which he stopped doing in the end. To loaning an amount to someone on a strict condition it was paid back in a relatively short time frame (ie; the impending £5m) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Alf Hartigan Posted February 25, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2019 I'd rather be a yid than a gonner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Leyther_Matt said: Without looking at the accounts, you’d expect the massive increase in activity at the stadium and reduced wage bill to have achieved that? Both our income and outgoings have reduced considerably in his time granted But I am of the impression that a key indicator of good cash flow is being able to pay your bills on time, we were constantly getting in mither for paying late, that indicates poor cash flow to me Ken pulled forward income to stay a float, granted it’s what we had to do but it’s poor from a cash flow perspective surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, gonzo said: Course it has. He’s renegotiated deal after deal. Absolutely shed Loads that hasn’t made the public domain. We are losing less money now than we were. We might still struggle to pay the bills and have to rob Peter to pay Paul just get through week to week, but that’s not his fault. He could’ve gone down the austerity route and sold everything he could and not reinvested and single penny and kept the club running that way. But between him and his lad they’ve managed to assemble 2-3 squads that gained relative success. He said he’s renegotiated deal after deal, I’m not convinced myself and if he has it would not surprise me if any reduction was paid directly to him. Regarding him not selling everything he could I think he did sell everything he could, Madine, Holden and clough. I’m not yet convinced one little bit about Anderson’s tenure. I am worried we will find skeletons in the cupboard. Hope I’m wrong. Edited February 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: He said he’s renegotiated deal after deal, I’m not convinced myself and if he has it would not surprise me if any reduction was paid directly to him. Regarding him not selling everything he could I think he did sell everything he could, Madine, Holden and clough. I’m not convinced one little not about Anderson’s tenure I await skeletons in the cupboard. Hope I’m wrong. Getting £9.5m+ for clough and Madine is the best piece of business in the history of the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Both our income and outgoings have reduced considerably in his time granted But I am of the impression that a key indicator of good cash flow is being able to pay your bills on time, we were constantly getting in mither for paying late, that indicates poor cash flow to me Ken pulled forward income to stay a float, granted it’s what we had to do but it’s poor from a cash flow perspective surely? Depends on the other options. There weren't any so it was the least worst option, sad as it has been to see our name dragged through the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: Getting £9.5m+ for clough and Madine is the best piece of business in the history of the football club. Was good business, just replying to your comment about ken not going down the route of selling everything he could sell. If he could of made 5 million with player sales in January he’d still be holding on to ownership. Edited February 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’m honestly baffled that a fella who has done more than most over the last 20 - 25 years to make the club as self sufficient as possible is not getting an ounce of credit in some quarters he’s made the unsellable sellable. If someone can come in and do a better job then great but no one did so beforehand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, RoadRunnerFan said: Depends on the other options. There weren't any so it was the least worst option, sad as it has been to see our name dragged through the mud. Of course, no issue with it I just don’t think you could say Ken has sorted our cash flow out given all the late payments, we’ve clearly had some very big issues at the club Granted he took over some crazy player contracts but most of them were up in the early part of Ken’s reign. You’d have to assume that 90% + of our current outgoings are deals signed by Ken himself so it’s on him now Ve glad to have all this shite behind us anyway, fingers crossed the new lot have lots of dough they are happy losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted February 25, 2019 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2019 Don't we still own some land And the hotel And the ground He's hardly sold all he can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Casino said: I bow to your knowledge of accounting terms Not at all in essence it’s just For cosmetics and would make the accounts look better and if it’s been removed as we expect then it’s irrelevant. In all likelihood it is unlikely to have been triggered anytime soon and would expect it was time limited anyway rather than open ended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted February 25, 2019 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, Escobarp said: Not at all in essence it’s just For cosmetics and would make the accounts look better and if it’s been removed as we expect then it’s irrelevant. In all likelihood it is unlikely to have been triggered anytime soon and would expect it was time limited anyway rather than open ended I wasn't being funny I dunno what it's called and was happy to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Casino said: I wasn't being funny I dunno what it's called and was happy to be corrected. You feeling alright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Was good business, just replying to your comment about ken not going down the route of selling everything he could sell. If he could of made 5 million with player sales in January he’d still be holding on to ownership. Fortunately for us all our entire playing squad isn’t worth 5m so ken gets paid out and we get new owners. Everyone’s a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted February 25, 2019 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Escobarp said: You feeling alright? Don't believe all you read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breightmet Boy Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 If I was spending money on anything I wouldn’t start spouting off on anything at all until the ink was dry and the solicitors were happy too. Until then, the world can wait. I really do wish people would stop getting so giddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Both our income and outgoings have reduced considerably in his time granted But I am of the impression that a key indicator of good cash flow is being able to pay your bills on time, we were constantly getting in mither for paying late, that indicates poor cash flow to me Ken pulled forward income to stay a float, granted it’s what we had to do but it’s poor from a cash flow perspective surely? The failure to pay bills was an inevitability once the parachute payment and ED safety nets were removed though, regardless of who the owner was. Even if KA was in a position to chuck money in to cover those bills then all it would have done was paper over the cracks until we hit the same problem with the next bloke. The concerts and rugby won’t bring in millions (it would probably just about scrape in to six figures overall), it does at least show a willingness that has been missing for a decade or more to put the club’s facilities to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, tyldesley_white said: if it just been Holdsworth, we would now be an ex football league club Have any football league clubs ever gone to the wall? Also, if we're giving Ken credit for convincing Eddie to get back involved, does that mean Deano is a legend for bringing us King Ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Casino said: Don't we still own some land And the hotel And the ground He's hardly sold all he can Sale of the above would have reduced the value of the business and thus lessen his profit from the sale. Edited February 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted February 25, 2019 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: I think he did sell everything he could, So do you or don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Which corner of the ground is Ken's statue going on? I reckon South/West corner facing/pointing towards Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Escobarp said: Not sure it sits on the books. It’s a contingent liability so whilst it may be recorded in the notes it shouldn’t show on the balance sheet when we finally see an upto date set of account. If we are talking about the same thing, its in the balance sheet as a debt in the last audited balance sheet. See note 21 here: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00335699/filing-history Seems likely to me that there were further discussions on this when Ken asked Eddie to stump up the money to pay off Blumarble. Probably more discussions with Eddie's trustees as part of the takeover negotiations. It would only have been a contingent liability if had first been written off with the rest of the loan balance and that is not what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts