Take Over

[Escobarp]

16 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If we are talking about the same thing, its in the balance sheet as a debt in the last audited balance sheet. See note 21 here:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00335699/filing-history

Seems likely to me that there were further discussions on this when Ken asked Eddie to stump up the money to pay off Blumarble. Probably more discussions with Eddie's trustees as part of the takeover negotiations.

It would only have been a contingent liability if had first been written off with the rest of the loan balance and that is not what happened.

 

I stand corrected. Although looking at this then there is no £15m payable as 5.2m was written off in that period? Would you agree?

And actually this isn’t linked to a return to the PL as sort of a success bonus from the notes so is this the same thing? The 10m was due to be paid within the following year so may well have been renegotiated into a “contingent liability” and actually written off in the next accounting period and made contingent on a PL return within a prescribed period possibly?

I’m not an accountant so slightly confusing to me but sure you will put me straight 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Escobarp

[Roger_Dubuis]

8 hours ago, Traf said:

Which corner of the ground is Ken's statue going on? I reckon South/West corner facing/pointing towards Nat

Will the Ken statue be brave enough to be there for Bolton home games?

[Dr Faustus]

8 hours ago, Traf said:

Which corner of the ground is Ken's statue going on? I reckon South/West corner facing/pointing towards Nat

Would cast a lovely shadow. Left hand giving Vs, right hand with a wad a cash, or champagne flute?

[Dr Faustus]

In Roman times, statues were made with interchangeable heads and limbs, so each emperor could have their individual traits recognised... JSL

[Chris Custodiet]

8 hours ago, Escobarp said:

I stand corrected. Although looking at this then there is no £15m payable as 5.2m was written off in that period? Would you agree?

And actually this isn’t linked to a return to the PL as sort of a success bonus from the notes so is this the same thing? The 10m was due to be paid within the following year so may well have been renegotiated into a “contingent liability” and actually written off in the next accounting period and made contingent on a PL return within a prescribed period possibly?

I’m not an accountant so slightly confusing to me but sure you will put me straight 

Sorry but I don't understand your second sentence but you are correct that £5.2million of the £15.2million was written off in 2017 reducing the Fildraw debt in the books to £10million and the total  loan debt to £22million, all of it technically repayable within one  year. But then Eddie stumped up another £5million to pay off Blumarble and provide a little bit more cash to help with interest and other costs. This would have increased the total loan debt to £23million before any more write-offs.

You may remember that Ken had earlier put out a document with an asking price of £25million. That would not have been enough to have covered the whole loan debt and other creditors and give Ken a profit. So at that stage he must have expected that some of the £10million Fildraw loan would be written off. After Eddie provided the money to pay off BM, the asking price went up to £30million indicating that Ken needed more leeway, possibly because of re-negotiated terms relating to the secured Fildraw debt.

The figures are leaked and may not tell the whole story but if a top line figure has been agreed at £27million and Ken is taking £2.5 to £3 million of this its not leaving much for unpaid interest and unsecured creditors if the whole loan debt is repaid. My guess would be that some, but not all, of the remaining Fildraw loan is to be repaid with the remainder either written off or carried forward.

P.S. Moonshift and Fildraw are to all intents and purposes the same.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[gonzo]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17458635.bolton-fans-jury-how-do-you-rate-ken-andersons-reign/

 

 

[Boothy]

The BN resorting to continued besmirching without their resident thumb head headlining the article.

The sooner this is done the better and we can all draw a line under the whole thing.

”Ken loyalists‘ what an absolute cock juggling thundercunt. That’s the whole issue with this thing people hysterically ramping up the situation as if we are in an armed conflict or something and excessive use of hyperbole. Boring as fuck,  just like that article.

[Boby Brno]

50 minutes ago, gonzo said:

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17458635.bolton-fans-jury-how-do-you-rate-ken-andersons-reign/

 

 

Seems like a fairly balanced view by the three contributors. At least one off here as well.

[bwfcfan5]

18 hours ago, kent_white said:

I think it's been far from a disaster with PP in charge. A disaster would have been finishing bottom half of league 1 and then getting relegated the season after.

It's not been the prettiest - but I've been celebrating on the pitch at the end of two consecutive seasons.

This is pertinent. He's brought two seasons that can only be described as successful. Sure it hasn't been pretty. And this season will likely not be a success but he's done very well in the circumstances. Its hopefully time for a chance all round but I'll remember him for those two pitch invasions mainly - and Port Vale....

[Ani]

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

Seems like a fairly balanced view by the three contributors. At least one off here as well.

I think the views on there are ok.

When Ken adds a demand or 10% to the selling price this week or something comes out of the wood work might change.

 

[Boby Brno]

38 minutes ago, Ani said:

I think the views on there are ok.

When Ken adds a demand or 10% to the selling price this week or something comes out of the wood work might change.

 

I agree. People can only judge based on what they read and their experiences. 

I am too close to the club to have an objective opinion and I’ll wait for the dust to settle to make a judgement on his ownership.

 

[Traf]

It was difficult to write what I wanted to write, having been told to keep it to 300 words (I notice others look considerably longer), but I was pleasantly surprised that they printed such balanced views, I thought this was going to be another opportunity to bash Ken on an otherwise slow news day.

The cynic in me says marc wanted some less than anti piece so that it creates discussion, though.

I don't know your own personal situation, Boby, but knowing what you do doesn't leave much to the imagination as to what your issue with Ken is and I sympathise with you. Some people have been treated poorly and I hope all gets rectified financially if not morally from the sale of the club.  

[Steejay]

1 hour ago, Traf said:

It was difficult to write what I wanted to write, having been told to keep it to 300 words (I notice others look considerably longer), but I was pleasantly surprised that they printed such balanced views, I thought this was going to be another opportunity to bash Ken on an otherwise slow news day.

The cynic in me says marc wanted some less than anti piece so that it creates discussion, though.

I don't know your own personal situation, Boby, but knowing what you do doesn't leave much to the imagination as to what your issue with Ken is and I sympathise with you. Some people have been treated poorly and I hope all gets rectified financially if not morally from the sale of the club.  

Great letter Traf. As you stated previously, pleasantly surprised at the published viewpoints.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Steejay

[Chris Custodiet]

If it had been the can of worms that it was portrayed as why would Ken Anderson have bothered in the first place? For sure there were cash flow problems. a chairman who had  been terminally ill, a manager who had  been distracted from  his day job and player contracts which, with the benefit of hindsight, were excessive.

But the hard debt was comparatively tiny and the operating deficit was less than the average for a Championship club. There were still  valuable fixed assets and player contracts that would later yield substantial profits and a former owner who loved the club to bits and would still prove supportive when push came to shove. And Ken only had to cough up 50P

One of the biggest problems, viewed from the outside,  was the personal expectations of Dean Holdsworth and the Blumarble loan, signed off by Holdsworth,  that would take two and a half years to get off the books, with Uncle Eddie's help, of course.

Reed all about it in the Beeno. I think not

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[Traf]

I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

[Dr Faustus]

13 minutes ago, Traf said:

I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

Does that mean were signing Dion Dublin?

[MalcolmW]

6 minutes ago, Dr Faustus said:

Does that mean were signing Dion Dublin?

Just what we need!

[Chris Custodiet]

16 minutes ago, Traf said:

I've long thought that Ken viewed the purchase of the club as a bit like Homes Under the Hammer on TV.

Buy it, tart it up, flip it.

So he bought it, the tarting up was to make it more financially streamlined if nothing else and therefore more sellable.

Phase 3 : the sale has proven difficult, but had he found a buyer between May & October of 2018, there'd be hardly any of the current ill-feeling going on. He's basically missed out on getting out with little/no abuse by about 5 months.  

I'm not sure that a quid counts as a  'purchase' and he didn't spend any money on it but there seems little room for doubt that he hoped to sell it on a profit. But it was also a challenge and a challenge that he seemed to be relishing until it went sour in the summer.

Eddie is bound to have told him what the Beeno was like and he probably thought he could handle it. In the end it seems to have got to him big style.

[MalcolmW]

16 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Have any football league clubs ever gone to the wall? 

Also, if we're giving Ken credit for convincing Eddie to get back involved, does that mean Deano is a legend for bringing us King Ken?

Yes.

 

Wigan Borough FC went to the wall in October 1931, and their results were expunged.

[passmosster]

5 hours ago, Boothy said:

The BN resorting to continued besmirching without their resident thumb head headlining the article.

The sooner this is done the better and we can all draw a line under the whole thing.

”Ken loyalists‘ what an absolute cock juggling thundercunt. That’s the whole issue with this thing people hysterically ramping up the situation as if we are in an armed conflict or something and excessive use of hyperbole. Boring as fuck,  just like that article.

Once the group where I worked had a corporate culture scheme. It started with groups of us sitting in a room with a consultant who asked what we thought of the company. A German colleague piped up. "We spend far too much time looking up our own belly buttons".  Followed by mirth and a bemused German.

Anyway, I would put the BEN article well in the belly button contemplation category. It's almost as if they are trying to justify Iles Piles over the last 6 months..

[wakey]

4 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If it had been the can of worms that it was portrayed as why would Ken Anderson have bothered in the first place?

Maybe time for my vague, largely irrelevant and uncorroborated non-story about our finances ...

Here goes. A couple of years ago I was in a conversation with two blokes, one a former FD at a premier league club and one a former chairman / CEO, again at a PL club. They were nattering about 'football people' they knew (for them, 'football people' meant directors, investors, types they'd bump into in boardrooms etc). I wasn't really in the conversation as the names meant nowt to me. Then a name came up - sorry, absolutely no idea who, and didn't mean anything at the time. Ex-CEO turned to me and said "he had a look at buying your lot".

He then made some comment - and sorry, it gets vaguer still as I can't remember exactly how he worded it - but it was along the lines of too many skeletons in the closet.

Largely based on that snippet, i've always thought that a big part of how we ended up with Holdsworth and Ken was because Holdsworth's thick and Ken hadn't had chance to look under the bonnet before sticking his 50p in.

 

 

[Guest]

I’m hearing that the ST were instrumental in getting the consortium together

[gonzo]

A close associate works for the forensic accountancy firm that dealt with the books with Trevor Birch. 

Trust me, they were a complete mess with more skeletons in the closet than 25 Cromwell street. 

 

[birch-chorley]

23 minutes ago, wakey said:

Maybe time for my vague, largely irrelevant and uncorroborated non-story about our finances ...

Here goes. A couple of years ago I was in a conversation with two blokes, one a former FD at a premier league club and one a former chairman / CEO, again at a PL club. They were nattering about 'football people' they knew (for them, 'football people' meant directors, investors, types they'd bump into in boardrooms etc). I wasn't really in the conversation as the names meant nowt to me. Then a name came up - sorry, absolutely no idea who, and didn't mean anything at the time. Ex-CEO turned to me and said "he had a look at buying your lot".

He then made some comment - and sorry, it gets vaguer still as I can't remember exactly how he worded it - but it was along the lines of too many skeletons in the closet.

Largely based on that snippet, i've always thought that a big part of how we ended up with Holdsworth and Ken was because Holdsworth's thick and Ken hadn't had chance to look under the bonnet before sticking his 50p in.

 

 

That would bring us back the old conspiracy theories from Gartsides era 

My opinion hasn’t changed a great deal on that matter, whilst I’m sure you could scratch the surface and uncover some small scale unsavoury practices on the whole I think it was all above board 

We had annual audits from a top 4 accountancy firm, Deloitte wasn’t it? One of the first things Ken did was get rid of them for a small local firm. I doubt an auditor of that calibre wouldn’t find any serious malpractice 

You’ve also got to think that ED knew his onions, it was his money at the end of the day. I doubt he would have allowed serious fraud to take place 

 

[RONNIE PHILLIPS]

20 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I’m hearing that the ST were instrumental in getting the consortium together

I'm hearing that Iles is a respected journalist....