Take Over

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Whatever Ken may have done with regard to illegal activities, the situation at the moment snacks of desperation on his part.

We've heard plenty of times that interested parties were tyre kickers etc, but that's only ever been his comments.

Comments from other folk in football, together with his past suggest he's a bad un.

 

[chrisw99]

1 minute ago, Big Johnny said:

True but how many did boro bring

Not many, but that's irrelevant - trying to figure out how many Bolton fans actually went.

 

[Mounts Kipper]

Regardless of our shit support last night the red button needs fucking off big time.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Whatever Ken may have done with regard to illegal activities, the situation at the moment snacks of desperation on his part.

We've heard plenty of times that interested parties were tyre kickers etc, but that's only ever been his comments.

Comments from other folk in football, together with his past suggest he's a bad un.

 

I don't think he cares about the football club or its fans. He hasn't done the right thing by staff. He's hard-nosed. 

None of that takes away from the fact we are a loss making club that the previous owner couldn't sell and now seemingly Ken cannot either. We don't have any money and its been that way for a long time - way before Ken was involved. 

Ken reduced but did not eradicate the deficit. We're now still racking up debt and needing someone who wants to come in and wipe that and then invest...financially it makes little sense for most people. 

[Howardroark]

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

[Gaz Nt]

So in a nutshell. We're fucked.

RIP BWFC

Edited April 10, 2019 by Gaz Nt

[chrisw99]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Ken reduced but did not eradicate the deficit. We're now still racking up debt and needing someone who wants to come in and wipe that and then invest...financially it makes little sense for most people. 

 

Is it interest on debt that is killing us, because if that is cleared....

Someone said the wage bill was 250k a month = £3 million

Lets be optimistic and say 11,000 season tickets at £400 average = 4.4 million

3000 extra tickets sold each match at average £25 = £75000 * 23 matches = £1,725,000

So - just looking at wages vs bums on seats we should be £3 million in profit.   

Then you add on TV money, advertising, sponsorship...

It *should* make a profit.   Or am I wildly off here.

 

[white noise]

Jesus, that is a bleak picture

[sleepingindian]

you can still loan players and freebies

 

[Farrelli]

6 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

I was hoping for an olive branch of hope if you posted again but that is grim.

[Jcookie]

8 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

So not looking good for us as a club anymore then @Howardroark? Just seems like liquidation is looking more likely because the bills are too much for anyone including yourselves now! Or do you think the admin idea will come off? Will it involve Michael James?

[chrisw99]

Can the transfer embargo be appealed against after a regime change, as that should be a punishment against the former owners?

[Big Johnny]

10 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

Holy Fuck

But Thanks Howard

[Sweep]

Just now, chrisw99 said:

Can the transfer embargo be appealed against after a regime change, as that should be a punishment against the former owners?

It can be appealed, doesn't mean you'll get anywhere though.

[dazl1212]

So a 12 point deduction for next season and a transfer embargo on top of it. 

Sounds wonderful. 

One thing I have always wondered about us is how much potential do we have as a club? I mean we have a nice stadium but its not exactly massive and we cant even fill that. 

I'd imagine if we could become a really successful club we could pull in more. The amount of people I see around Horwich alone who wear Man United/Liverpool/City/Chelsea tops etc is insane and I doubt many of them have season tickets or have even attended more than 10 games in their lives. 

[TroySwoosh]

Haha Mark Banner! Name on my Twitter is Dave Banner as I used to get told I went into hulk smash mode when I got angry

You're welcome to find out with a straightener outside the club shop of course 

 

Toodle pip

 

[Chris Custodiet]

1 hour ago, ProfessorWoland said:

Ah sorry, didn't think to check before I posted. Still tend to believe she isn't embarking on an outright deception of the court.

I agree with you.

There was similar speculation three years ago over the mysteriously missing £2.5m. Its only through Howard's info that its been possible to figure out what lay behind it.

Summat needs to happen very soon though. Eddie, just before he died, basically gave Ken another six months to sell his shares and he hasn't succeeded. Eddie spent years and he didn't succeed either. Some folk seem to think that selling a serial loss-maker is easy-peasy. Never tried it myself and would never have fancied it either.

P.S. Posted before seeing Howard's bombshell.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[mickbrown]

Stadium isn’t even that nice now. 

Had nowt done to it for years and is looking pretty neglected  

Water started pissing out of the roof against Ipswich and it wasn’t even raining. 

[darrener]

Just now, dazl1212 said:

So a 12 point deduction for next season and a transfer embargo on top of it. 

Sounds wonderful. 

One thing I have always wondered about us is how much potential do we have as a club? I mean we have a nice stadium but its not exactly massive and we cant even fill that. 

I'd imagine if we could become a really successful club we could pull in more. The amount of people I see around Horwich alone who wear Man United/Liverpool/City/Chelsea tops etc is insane and I doubt many of them have season tickets or have even attended more than 10 games in their lives. 

I would imagine we will probably ground sharing in the future if everything goes pop, too expensive to run with 4 - 5000 crowds. 

[dazl1212]

1 minute ago, darrener said:

I would imagine we will probably ground sharing in the future if everything goes pop, too expensive to run with 4 - 5000 crowds. 

I thought that last night if I am being honest. Hopefully, the worst case scenario is administration, with owners who can afford to run it and put out a half decent team in league one. 

[Sweep]

16 minutes ago, chrisw99 said:

Is it interest on debt that is killing us, because if that is cleared....

Someone said the wage bill was 250k a month = £3 million

Lets be optimistic and say 11,000 season tickets at £400 average = 4.4 million

3000 extra tickets sold each match at average £25 = £75000 * 23 matches = £1,725,000

So - just looking at wages vs bums on seats we should be £3 million in profit.   

Then you add on TV money, advertising, sponsorship...

It *should* make a profit.   Or am I wildly off here.

 

I'd be surprised if we generate even £2.5M from ST sales, never mind £4.4M

[Mounts Kipper]

22 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

Would a partnership between your people and local consortium be workable? 

[radcliffe white]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I'd be surprised if we generate even £2.5M from ST sales, never mind £4.4M

Last I heard we have 10600 season tickets this season 

how many of them are £69 kids 

with you nowhere near that figure 

[bwfcfan5]

18 minutes ago, chrisw99 said:

Can the transfer embargo be appealed against after a regime change, as that should be a punishment against the former owners?

Administration brings with it a transfer embargo anyway. If we enter administration you face the very real prospect of someone having to pay a lot of money for an (in effect) league two club. 

[stimmau5]

28 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I suppose it is time that I clarified the position we find ourselves in. As previously discussed, we retain the right to purchase the debt relating to the ICI-Moonshift transaction. This debt is now in default and ICI have now served their 14 day notice period for recalling the collateral. This means that we can, if we so choose, take control of Burnden Leisure and subsequently BWFC. 

The issue's that we face are as follows: 

Whilst quite prepared to pay off the £28.9M debt, and in fact any other legitimate debts, we are not prepared to cover the additional £26.6M loss that we will incur by writing off the inter company obligation owed by ICI whilst also paying off the associated factoring companies.. When the opportunity was initially pitched to us it was initimated that a deal would involve the partial-total repayment of this, this however is not now the case. Whilst we could choose to liquidate ICI, it is unlikely that we will be able to recover any funds. We also have the very real prospect that any of the factoring companies could jump on to the WU petition if we satisfied all other creditors.

Of the £28.9M, we had anticipated being able recover some of the investment through re-development of the car parks, the building of a secondary hotel on the Hotel car park and selling the rights to an access road for the new Bolton West road system. This combined with a payment against the £13.3M would have gotten us to a point of comfort in respect of losses over the next 3 years.  

So where are we now? We are talking to two of the previously interested parties (Not Bassini) about recalling the shares, funding administration and then loaning them funds to purchase the business from administration. We are discussing us being able to convert this loan to equity at a fixed point in the future. The issue with this is of course the transfer embargo combined with the loss of ups to 14 senior players, leaving a threadbare squad and a fairly bleak campaign.  

As each day goes by and more & more bills are missed, the debt increases and it becomes much less appetising for a potential buyer, for example they are now £1.7M higher than when FV first started to look at the club and with a future payment already taken (EFL). 

Ultimately administration is going to be the only option to shed the debt, it is still going to require £22-£25M but that is probably acceptable to a consortium looking for a slow re-build, this is typically a fans-backed consortium or involving local people. We ourselves wouldn't be looking for a slow re-build. 

I appreciate that this isn't what you wish to hear, but when overall debts turn out to be nearly double the previously stated, it dopes change the attractiveness of an investment. I am aware of course that the usual crowd will attempt to pick this apart (BWFCFan5, Troy Swoosh (Hi Mark Banner), Jules Darby etc)) but c'est la vie.

 

Thanks for this Howard. So were fucked then? Its unlikely anyone will want to fund admin based on what you have said.