Benny The Ball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 05/08/2019 at 18:47, gonzo said: game on indeed 17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I don’t understand why boo hoo interested in the hotel as a stand alone business, it’s either a back door to owning everything lock stock and barrel, the conundrum is what they do with it if they get it. Its Interesting to go back to Nixon's original tweet and the wording " Group backed by " ..... so they individually can deny interest in the Football club ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: Its Interesting to go back to Nixon's original tweet and the wording " Group backed by " ..... so they individually can deny interest in the Football club ....... And you wouldn’t declare your hand on twitter anyhow. Let’s hope Nixon has it right and they want the club and for the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 It gets even more intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: EDT also want their loan back - either via Ken or via the club. There is a lot of disputes so I'm told. Just what I have thought all along. For a start, there seems to be the £10m left over from pre-March 2016 loans (owed to EDT by the club) and c.£7.5m (my estimate) owed to EDT by Ken, but lent to the club by Ken. Glossed over by Rubins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted August 19, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: Its Interesting to go back to Nixon's original tweet and the wording " Group backed by " ..... so they individually can deny interest in the Football club ....... also interesting, sort of, that he's saying they are bidding £7M for the hotel. there was a suggestion on here that FV were bidding 250k but the administrators wanted £1M - whether that is true or not I have no idea but the figures being touted are way apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisj Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, ZicoKelly said: also interesting, sort of, that he's saying they are bidding £7M for the hotel. there was a suggestion on here that FV were bidding 250k but the administrators wanted £1M - whether that is true or not I have no idea but the figures being touted are way apart No they aren’t as anyone other than FV has to pay PBP 5m so FV are offering what they are as they are deducting the 5m owed to PBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted August 19, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, Chrisj said: No they aren’t as anyone other than FV has to pay PBP 5m so FV are offering what they are as they are deducting the 5m owed to PBP right, makes more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, ZicoKelly said: also interesting, sort of, that he's saying they are bidding £7M for the hotel. there was a suggestion on here that FV were bidding 250k but the administrators wanted £1M - whether that is true or not I have no idea but the figures being touted are way apart That is because Prescot Business Parks ( Michael James ) have a charge of £5.5 million from memory on the hotel , therefore they would roll over the charge on acquisition and give the administrator £250k or whatever Someone has just answered We have speculated on this previously - it says OVER £7 million - rumour was nearer to £9 million which Damocles and one or two others concurred with , that would be acceptable to KA as he gets a pay off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said: That is because Prescot Business Parks ( Michael James ) have a charge of £5.5 million from memory on the hotel , therefore they would roll over the charge on acquisition and give the administrator £250k or whatever Someone has just answered We have speculated on this previously - it says OVER £7 million - rumour was nearer to £9 million which Damocles and one or two others concurred with , that would be acceptable to KA as he gets a pay off How does he get a pay off? He can only get back what he's owed and he owes that to EDT. You're not suggesting they'll let him off are you? Edited August 19, 2019 by Chris Custodiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex_midlandwhite Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 50 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I don’t understand why boo hoo interested in the hotel as a stand alone business, it’s either a back door to owning everything lock stock and barrel, the conundrum is what they do with it if they get it. They have a property investment business for clients. Lots of the Manchester TV stars etc I guess. They'll just be looking for a return on investment which the hotel will deliver based on the different models that have been discussed on here yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: How does he get a pay off? He can only get back what he's owed and he owes that to EDT. Pay off as in the sense of a monetary sum payable to him from the administration process associated with Bolton Whites Hotel Limited in respect of the secured charge he has over it Whether he spends that on repaying EDT or paying Bassini or even buying a lifetime subscription to our beloved Bolton Evening News - not our concern If the offer was under circa £6 million he would get sweet FA as it would go to PBP as first charge holder and the administrator in fees Edited August 19, 2019 by Benny The Ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Benny The Ball said: Pay off as in the sense of a monetary sum payable to him from the administration process associated with Bolton Whites Hotel Limited in respect of the secured charge he has over it Whether he spends that on repaying EDT or paying Bassini or even buying a lifetime subscription to our beloved Bolton Evening News - not our concern If the offer was under circa £6 million he would get sweet FA as it would go to PBB as first charge holder and the administrator in fees Obfuscation Benny. EDT want their money back end of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, ex_midlandwhite said: They have a property investment business for clients. Lots of the Manchester TV stars etc I guess. They'll just be looking for a return on investment which the hotel will deliver based on the different models that have been discussed on here yesterday My earlier point was could they get control of hotel, then club, shut both down and sell land and make a profit, think the answer is they could and it would realise a big profit for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Obfuscation Benny. EDT want their money back end of... And where have I ever suggested otherwise ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrotter Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Any property experts on here? I think it has been said that the hotel originally paid the club a commercial rent for the space (presumably when De Veres were involved), but that was later changed to a long lease at a peppercorn rent. Does that agreement survive admin? Are they buying/taking over the existing lease? If not can't the new owners of the football club demand new hotel owners pay a market/above market rent? Wouldn't the freeholder (Bolton Council?) and the Head Leaseholder (football club) have to agree any changes of use to the hotel or any land it leases for development? Buying the hotel without the club makes no commercial sense to me. Edited August 19, 2019 by TrickyTrotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said: Hang on - who do you see funding the club in the interim? FV have been paying wages and paying costs to allow games to take place. If they walk away the club as far as we know is done for. Unless there is some secret buyer lurking - who genuinely can prove funds to admins and EFL satisfaction - I struggle to see how the club will survive. FV are offering staggered loan repayments which seems to be the issue - but I'm guessing that short of someone with bags of cash (and that someone has to be able to prove it to the EFL's satisfaction) rocking up - any deal will be structured in a similar way. The hotel clearly allows you to offset some of the club's losses. Remember that buying BWFC is signing up to a commitment to feed in your own money on an annual basis. Its not much of a business proposition. I'm not sure how much of that is relevant to what I posted. To be our only option, first FV have to be an option. At the minute - with a business plan based on owning a hotel they've yet to make a 'credible' offer for - they aren't. It's 62 days since the Appleton said the deal could be done 'next week'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said: Any property experts on here? I think it has been said that the hotel originally paid the club a commercial rent for the space (presumably when De Veres were involved), but that was later changed to a long lease at a peppercorn rent. Does that agreement survive admin? Are they buying/taking over the existing lease? If not can't the new owners of the football club demand new hotel owners pay a market/above market rent? Wouldn't the freeholder (Bolton Council?) and the Head Leaseholder (football club) have to agree any changes of use to the hotel or any land it leases for development? Buying the hotel without the club makes no commercial sense to me. The hotel was owned by Burnden Leisure. In splitting it - the club would have no ability to charge "rent" as the hotel - the physical building and associated assets would be owned by someone independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Tombwfc said: I'm not sure how much of that is relevant to what I posted. To be our only option, first FV have to be an option. At the minute - with a business plan based on owning a hotel they've yet to make a 'credible' offer for - they aren't. It's 62 days since the Appleton said the deal could be done 'next week'. We don't know what offer they've made. But if we assume they were only credible option for football club would you rather be in this position or liquidated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: My earlier point was could they get control of hotel, then club, shut both down and sell land and make a profit, think the answer is they could and it would realise a big profit for them. Just had a quick look at the Kamani family and their associates If they are the genuine article then this company would appear to be a likely acquisition vehicle https://km-capital.co.uk/ and there is a football connection in one of the businesses they have invested in https://km-capital.co.uk/our-investments/player-works/ and one of their main players at one time ran Betfair https://km-capital.co.uk/our-team/stephen-morana/ I might be going off on a complete tangent here - but might be interested in more than just property Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breightmet Boy Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 4 hours ago, MickyD said: Maybe they could build a stadium between the two. Say where the former Harwood Open Golf Course used to be. Far enough from our house so we don't attract the car parking hassle but close enough to walk. Great thinking Micky, makes perfect sense logistically for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted August 19, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2019 35 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said: Any property experts on here? we cover all bases on way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrotter Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The hotel was owned by Burnden Leisure. In splitting it - the club would have no ability to charge "rent" as the hotel - the physical building and associated assets would be owned by someone independently. Thanks so presumably the new hotel owner would own an agreed space within the South stand. Which car park had a charge over it? Was it A and is that one of the associated assets being sold with the hotel? If not nothing much to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said: Thanks so presumably the new hotel owner would own an agreed space within the South stand. Which car park had a charge over it? Was it A and is that one of the associated assets being sold with the hotel? If not nothing much to develop. I think the development theory goes. Buy hotel...let club fold....purchase stadium from liquidation cheaply....redevelop land around hotel. Not saying that happens at all, and there are issues with redevelopment of the site but I'm sure some have looked at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: I think the development theory goes. Buy hotel...let club fold....purchase stadium from liquidation cheaply....redevelop land around hotel. Not saying that happens at all, and there are issues with redevelopment of the site but I'm sure some have looked at it. Would the land be cheaper through liquidation than it was available through administration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrotter Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Would the land be cheaper through liquidation than it was available through administration? Maybe. But far more valuable if it had outline planning permission. Which I can’t see the Council giving. And the secured creditors would have to wait years to get money back. Big risks all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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