Take Over

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Would the land be cheaper through liquidation than it was available through administration? 

Oh yes. In admin the cost is what £20 odd million quid? In liquidation all assets are sold off either collectively or separately - whatever recovers the most money. 

I suspect as a guess if liquidated the ground and surrounding land would be 5/6M - something like that. Clearly then there is cost to development....

[Matthew1234]

43 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

Just had a quick look at the Kamani family and their associates 

If they are the genuine article then this company would appear to be a likely acquisition vehicle https://km-capital.co.uk/

and there is a football connection in one of the businesses they have invested in https://km-capital.co.uk/our-investments/player-works/

and one of their main players at one time ran Betfair https://km-capital.co.uk/our-team/stephen-morana/

I might be going off on a complete tangent here - but might be interested in more than just property 

Thanks Benny - I didn't realise they had investments outside of the fast fashion realm (ignoring the prior weeks acquisition).

The bit that raises my scepticism is that, their interest came out, I believe, after the so called "best and final" football club offers were meant to be placed. While of course, they may have offered, and we simply do not know this, but at face value the timings would suggest that their primary interest could be simply the hotel.  On the other hand, they could be using the hotel as a back door route into the club but the timings do increase my scepticism.

 

[Sluffy]

Stepping back a moment and thinking more around the issues I've had these thoughts.

Why would anyone want the hotel if it is so intrinsically linked to a football stadium which is severely struggling to find an owner with the finances to take it on?

I assume no one really and that's why the two parties reportedly interested in buying it are the Kamani's (or apparently someone they are backing) who seem to be more rag trade orientated and FV being led by Sharron Brittan who is more property focussed.

Seems then that the hotel is probably the sprat to catch the maceral of the club?

But why would the Kamani's be interested in a club they haven't seen the books of - (or have they?) - only one buyer paid the £25k to inspect the books but we haven't been told who.  FV don't forget had already seen the books prior to Administration and walked away from the deal with Anderson when they found some unexpected hidden debt apparently remember.  It may not have been FV at all paying that sole £25k to see the books that they already had glimpsed before perhaps?

So IF the Kamani's really bought the hotel would they want to complete the set and have the football club to go with it?

Or would they simply be making a speculative purchase to knock a potential (property rival) out of the competition in order to buy the rest of the stadium presumably for relative peanuts - who else is going to want to buy the other half a stadium - they couldn't develop it as someone (the Kamani's) would already be owning the other half - so it would have to be a football bidder who would want it - and no one apart from FV seemed interested to own it initially - and Bassini could already own both the hotel and club already if the judge finds in his favour in any event!

So lets say the Kamani backed bid won, what would they do with the hotel?

Run it as it is, or look to buy the rest of the stadium, if so to what point - knock part/all of it down and redevelop perhaps?

If they are seriously going to do something like that then what is their business plan?

First of all would they be as sure as they could that development/redevelopment could take place - seems a lot to splash out a reported £9m on a hotel they probably do not want (where were the genuine hotel bidders for the hotel if non hotel bidders out bid them?) and could they be fairly certain that they could acquire the rest of the stadium and enough land to do what they might have in mind to do?  No doubt others would want to bid and develop the land too?

Then how much would all this cost, over what length of time, and would the end result be financially rewarding enough for them to do it?

Would all this be financially feasible and profitable or is it just all a ploy to push FV into paying more for the hotel - and if so are they financially capable of doing so or will it squeeze their financial margins so tightly that they simply don't see any reason to continue and they walk away?

In which case would the Kamani backed bid really want to end up with an hotel attached to a stadium no one seemingly wants, having paid well in excess of what any genuine hotel focused businesses valued it at?

Why would the Kamani's genuinely want to own BWFC - where were they when Appleton was trying to sell it just three months ago?  Why have the Kamani brothers both publicly stated they don't want to buy the club?

I can't see where all this is heading too - a Bassini win, a ploy to leverage more money from FV to KA, FV walking away, Kamani's knocking the stadium down or conversely BWFC being their newest toy to play with - all are seemingly feasible outcomes right now.

The only thing for certain is that "a deal will be completed soon".

I jest of course - but then again who am I to contradict the likes of Messrs Nixon and Iles!

 

[birch-chorley]

15 minutes ago, Matthew1234 said:

Thanks Benny - I didn't realise they had investments outside of the fast fashion realm (ignoring the prior weeks acquisition).

The bit that raises my scepticism is that, their interest came out, I believe, after the so called "best and final" football club offers were meant to be placed. While of course, they may have offered, and we simply do not know this, but at face value the timings would suggest that their primary interest could be simply the hotel.  On the other hand, they could be using the hotel as a back door route into the club but the timings do increase my scepticism.

 

The family also came out and said they have no interest in the football club but have shown interest in the hotel (think he had a swipe at the administrators for not coming back to him) 

Its safe to assume they don’t want anything to do with Wanderers 

[Wanderlust]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

So in summary. No one knows what this means and what will happen next. 

Not that it will stop the endless cycle of supposition, point-scoring and pedantry.

Talking of which does anyone know what a maceral is?

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

Not that it will stop the endless cycle of supposition, point-scoring and pedantry.

Talking of which does anyone know what a maceral is?

Just found it on Wiki:

A maceral is a component, organic in origin, of coal or oil shale. The term 'maceral' in reference to coal is analogous to the use of the term 'mineral' in reference to igneous or metamorphic rocks. Examples of macerals are inertinite, vitrinite, and liptinite.

[TrickyTrotter]

3 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

Just found it on Wiki:

A maceral is a component, organic in origin, of coal or oil shale. The term 'maceral' in reference to coal is analogous to the use of the term 'mineral' in reference to igneous or metamorphic rocks. Examples of macerals are inertinite, vitrinite, and liptinite.

There’s a giant shale oil field under the stadium and it is soon to be the UKs biggest fracking site.  Result.....of sorts.

[ZiggyStardust]

8 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

Not that it will stop the endless cycle of supposition, point-scoring and pedantry.

Talking of which does anyone know what a maceral is?

TBF, whilst I'm no fan of Sluffy (or anyone else who presents endless supposition as fact), to call up the spelling police is cuntishness of the highest order.

 

As you were ...

[Wanderlust]

7 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

TBF, whilst I'm no fan of Sluffy (or anyone else who presents endless supposition as fact), to call up the spelling police is cuntishness of the highest order.

 

As you were ...

My pleasure.

Have to say that pulling someone up for making a pedantic joke about pedantry and referring to the ramblings of a pedant in the process is cuntishness of the highest order - or just not seeing it. I hope it's the latter.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Hoppy510

[masi 51]

On 16/08/2019 at 11:03, Biggish Dave said:

 

What would stop FV fencing off all access to the hotel...rendering it worthless??

[R5dean]

On 29/07/2019 at 00:31, Sluffy said:

.

PS - only one bidder paid the £25k to look at the Data Room (Para 8.2.3)

 

 

 

Apologies if this has been asked before but where did you get the info that only one bidder paid to view the data room ?

 

[Jol_BWFC]

26 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

What would stop FV fencing off all access to the hotel...rendering it worthless??

The long lease of the hotel. It will inevitably grant the tenant the necessary rights to access the hotel.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jol_BWFC

[Sluffy]

6 minutes ago, R5dean said:

Apologies if this has been asked before but where did you get the info that only one bidder paid to view the data room ?

As I stated - Para 8.2.3 of the Statement of the Administrators Proposal put into the public domain on the 22nd July see here -

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00043026/filing-history

It reads -

8.2.3 Data Room Access Fee

One prospective buyer paid a fee of £25,000 to gain access to the virtual data room in order to undertake due diligence.

 

So clearly there was scant interest in anyone seriously intending to purchase the club if only one (two if you consider FV did due diligence prior to Administration and did not wish to see the Administrators official findings) prospective buyer even did due diligence on it.

[Roger_Dubuis]

Charging so much money for potential buyers to merely view the club's data was another mistake made by Appleton in my opinion.

 

 

[Tombwfc]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We don't know what offer they've made. But if we assume they were only credible option for football club would you rather be in this position or liquidated?

 

 

 

Again, you're arguing a point I haven't made.

It's not my decision to accept or reject any bids for the football club or the hotel. For FV there is seemingly no deal without the hotel. For the hotel admins they inferred yesterday that FV's bid for the hotel was currently not considered credible.

If they ever get the deal over the line they have my full backing, but we're now at 175 days since they first agreed HoTs to buy the club.

[Danny G]

18 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Charging so much money for potential buyers to merely view the club's data was another mistake made by Appleton in my opinion.

 

 

What is £25k when the purchase cost is £25million?

The data room fee was put in place to try and deter tyre kickers and speed up the sale process. Neither worked like. 

[MalcolmW]

2 minutes ago, Danny G said:

What is £25k when the purchase cost is £25million?

The data room fee was put in place to try and deter tyre kickers and speed up the sale process. Neither worked like. 

0.1%

[R5dean]

36 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

 

8.2.3 Data Room Access Fee

One prospective buyer paid a fee of £25,000 to gain access to the virtual data room in order to undertake due diligence.

 

So clearly there was scant interest in anyone seriously intending to purchase the club if only one (two if you consider FV did due diligence prior to Administration and did not wish to see the Administrators official findings) prospective buyer even did due diligence on it.

Cheers for that Sluffy, knew id seen it somewhere.

[Roger_Dubuis]

33 minutes ago, Danny G said:

What is £25k when the purchase cost is £25million?

The data room fee was put in place to try and deter tyre kickers and speed up the sale process. Neither worked like. 

Wealthy people don't stay wealthy by paying 25k for something that should be £25

Maybe if you won £500 million on the lottery you'd let people like Appleton rip you off for 25 grand, I wouldn't.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Roger_Dubuis

[Damocles]

50 minutes ago, Danny G said:

What is £25k when the purchase cost is £25million?

The data room fee was put in place to try and deter tyre kickers and speed up the sale process. Neither worked like. 

Maybe they paid in instalments 

[Cheese]

29 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

Wealthy people don't stay wealthy by paying 25k for something that should be £25

Maybe if you won £500 million on the lottery you'd let people like Appleton rip you off for 25 grand, I wouldn't.

If it was £25, every man and his dog would have paid to see the books, and the administrators would still be in the process of narrowing it down to the serious bidders.

[Escobarp]

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

If it was £25, every man and his dog would have paid to see the books, and the administrators would still be in the process of narrowing it down to the serious bidders.

Good god I’m agreeing with cheese. To be fair I think roger the red is at the wind up surely 

[Sluffy]

 

[tyldesley_white]

10 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

 

You may have just watched you last game

[Casino]

19 minutes ago, tyldesley_white said:

You may have just watched you last game

maybe but i think its a footballing decision

players not up to it, rather than takeover issues

though if the takeover was very close, maybe we would be bringing players in