Take Over

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

 

You were a moderator on the Wanderer at one point weren't you but fell out with people and left

 

 

...and set up Boltonnuts to give himself a platform to pontificate and lecture people to his heart's content and ban people who he fell out with. Me for instance, allegedly for asking if his mental health was OK and thereby being abusive whereas the reality was that he couldn't understand the difference between speculation and stating something as fact and had a tendency to extrapolate and conflate to suit his pontification. As per the little exchange above:

Me: Anderson failed to do anything about the ongoing losses so he should have either sold out or put a plan in place.

Stuffy: You are saying that Anderson should have just walked away without selling on or putting a plan in place.

It really is difficult to get any sense out of someone who claims you are saying the opposite of what you're saying.

[stevieb]

Sluffy v hoppy.

No one in wanderersways gives a flying fuck about your past beef on shit wanderers forums. 

 

[Sluffy]

3 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

It works by having a business plan wherein income is increased and expenditure is reduced until you have a sustainable business that washes it's face. Or selling to someone who can.

As opposed to sitting on your hands for three years whilst the walls crumble around you.

You aren't answering the question.

And you, me and everyone else knows it.

You said if he hadn't got anyone to sell to he should have walked away any way - which of course is legally and financially utter nonsense and why I asked you to explain - which obviously you couldn't.

If he had no one to sell the company to he had no other choice but to remain "on the tracks" whether he wanted to or not.

[Tombwfc]

1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

In which case, Ziggy,  you are as big a fool as Iles of the Beeno. The contracts were with the club or the hotel and the obligations of the club or hotel, not those of Ken Anderson or his family. So were the loans and other undertakings of the hotel and club.

Ken Anderson may be many things but he is not the fool he would have been had he taken on all that lot without the protection of the limited liability status owners and directors of the club have had since 1895.

 

What are you going to do if and when this does get sorted and there's just a boring old football team to talk about? Argue on TripAdvisor with anyone who leaves a negative review on one of Ken's restaurants?

[ProfessorWoland]

18 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You aren't answering the question.

And you, me and everyone else knows it.

You said if he hadn't got anyone to sell to he should have walked away any way - which of course is legally and financially utter nonsense and why I asked you to explain - which obviously you couldn't.

If he had no one to sell the company to he had no other choice but to remain "on the tracks" whether he wanted to or not.

There are still choices to make. 

Dont bring on a small contractor to replace carpets in the lounges knowing you won't be able to pay him then try and get him to settle for a box on the halfway line. Yes you will have old carpets, but you won't force a small businessman into bankruptcy.

[Duck Egg]

1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

In which case, Ziggy,  you are as big a fool as Iles of the Beeno. The contracts were with the club or the hotel and the obligations of the club or hotel, not those of Ken Anderson or his family. So were the loans and other undertakings of the hotel and club.

Ken Anderson may be many things but he is not the fool he would have been had he taken on all that lot without the protection of the limited liability status owners and directors of the club have had since 1895.

Who signed those contracts off on behalf of the club?

We're dying on our arse here but the merest mention of any criticism of Ken and you're off with your irrelevant Iles and hilarious Beeno comments.

For an obviously clever bloke you're not half a bell end.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Duck Egg

[Sluffy]

15 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

You were a moderator on the Wanderer at one point weren't you but fell out with people and left

I was sacked actually.

I was invited to be a mod on that site but found when I was that there was a hidden part of the site not open to public view where a number of preferred/elite/the clique had their says and opinions and who believed they where above the law and they could say and do what they liked on the public forum free from any sanctions.

Not only that the best mate in real life of the most disruptive poster on the forum was being invited to become part of the inner sanctum and who no doubt would pass on all the juicy bits said in what I supposed was intended to be some sort of confidentiality, would be passed on.

I immediately requested a separate private part of the site where modding could be done in a free and impartial way and applied equally to ALL on the forum - including the clique and suggested that the new nominee was to closely connected to the main transgressor on the site.

I had my modding rights immediately removed and was told - that I wasn't one of them and didn't belong.

I'd identified four persistent offenders that needed their behaviour to fall within the general modding of the site everyone else adhered to and that of not recommending inclusion of the best friend of one of them to the inner sanctum and passed on my view in confidence to the lead moderator at the time, who obviously sacked me on receipt of my message and let the others know what I had said.

Fwiw, three of the four I'd identified were sacked from the site over the following months and the mate of one of them, who was elected to the clique left when his mate was sacked.

I left to join Burnden Aces and was still a member of TW until I eventually set up Nuts and requested their permission to announce a new BWFC forum had been established and when I received no answer after several days, announced it myself and was immediately banned, which I still am.

Funny how you remembered something that lasted for less than a week and happened the best part of ten years ago,

Not like you haven't been following me about since - is it!

[ProfessorWoland]

I know of two contractors who have treated appallingly. The excuses and justifications won't wash. I know how hard it can be to run a business that's struggling, but that isn't an excuse for dragging others under. 

 

[Sluffy]

8 minutes ago, ProfessorWoland said:

There are still choices to make. 

Dont bring on a small contractor to replace carpets in the lounges knowing you won't be able to pay him then try and get him to settle for a box on the halfway line. Yes you will have old carpets, but you won't force a small businessman into bankruptcy.

With respect that is not the same scenario as someone saying if Ken had no one to sell the club to he should simply have done a moonlight and walked off from the club.

As owner and sole Director that would not have been acceptable under Company Law and he would have become personally liable for losses the company incurred if he'd abandoned it.

[Roger_Dubuis]

9 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

I was sacked actually

Funny how you remembered something that lasted for less than a week and happened the best part of ten years ago,

Not like you haven't been following me about since - is it!

I didn't know that tale and wasn't on the site the week you were moderator.

There was a discussion on the Wanderer several years ago about oddballs and your name cropped up as an ex moderator.That is my only knowledge

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

With respect that is not the same scenario as someone saying if Ken had no one to sell the club to he should simply have done a moonlight and walked off from the club.

As owner and sole Director that would not have been acceptable under Company Law and he would have become personally liable for losses the company incurred if he'd abandoned it.

The only person to have said that is you.

[Chris Custodiet]

32 minutes ago, ProfessorWoland said:

There are still choices to make. 

Dont bring on a small contractor to replace carpets in the lounges knowing you won't be able to pay him then try and get him to settle for a box on the halfway line. Yes you will have old carpets, but you won't force a small businessman into bankruptcy.

If that was all there was to it, it would be outrageous and indefensible. But lets not forget the club was up for sale with one party signing HOTs (which they later backed out of) and another allegedly signing a purchase agreement under which everyone would be paid in full. Its the administrator's job to report on the conduct of directors and I'm sure they will, if they haven't already.

[ProfessorWoland]

1 minute ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If that was all there was to it, it would be outrageous and indefensible. But lets not forget the club was up for sale with one party signing HOTs (which they later backed out of) and another allegedly signing a purchase agreement under which everyone would be paid in full. Its the administrator's job to report on the conduct of directors and I'm sure they will, if they haven't already.

This predates the HOT agreement.

In any case, I would argue that even after that point there remains an ethical responsibility on the part of the current administration not to incur avoidable obligations which they will not be able to honour if the proposed deal doesn't go through.

I'd acknowledge that's somewhat more of a grey area though and the answer depends on how you view the world of business. Having started in a small business and worked for some of the largest, I've seen plenty of behaviour I'd consider unethical and perhaps my viewpoint is considered naive or unrealistically idealistic by some.

[Chris Custodiet]

1 hour ago, Duck Egg said:

Who signed those contracts off on behalf of the club?

We're dying on our arse here but the and you're off with your irrelevant Iles and hilarious Beeno comments.

For an obviously clever bloke you're not half a bell end.

'merest mention of any criticism of Ken' is it? Wow!

I can't claim that I invented the Beeno title but its reporting has been so intellectually juvenile on a consistent basis I thought it quite apt. So I'll continue to use it with or without your kind permission. Barring a miracle there's no way on God's Earth that Ken Anderson would ever have been able to meet the club's liabilities as and when they fell due. The best he could hope for was to try to juggle them until someone with deeper pockets came along. Not an easy task by any means, but he managed to juggle them with considerable skill and ingenuity for over two years.

As for signing contracts without the secure means to pay them in the future, that is the nature of football finance and its getting worse by the year. Do you think the directors of BWFC had the means to pay £3.5m for Dean Holdsworth in 1997 and enough money to pay his and everyone else's wages for the rest of his contract? If you did, you are wrong and I rather suspect Eddie hadn't guaranteed another three year's funding when we signed the misfiring Swede, even though he did stump up the cash when required.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[peelyfeet]

6 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

'merest mention of any criticism of Ken' is it? Wow!

I can't claim that I invented the Beeno title but its reporting has been so intellectually juvenile on a consistent basis I thought it quite apt. So I'll continue to use it with or without your kind permission. Barring a miracle there's no way on God's Earth that Ken Anderson would ever have been able to meet the club's liabilities as and when they fell due. The best he could hope for was to try to juggle them until someone with deeper pockets came along. Not an easy task by any means, but he managed to juggle them with considerable skill and ingenuity for over two years.

As for signing contracts without the secure means to pay them in the future, that is the nature of football finance and its getting worse by the year. Do you think the directors of BWFC had the means to pay £3.5m for Dean Holdsworth in 1997 and enough money to pay his and everyone else's wages for the rest of his contract? If you did, you are wrong and I rather suspect Eddie hadn't guaranteed another three year's funding when we signed the misfiring Swede, even though he did stump up the cash when required.

I think the problem is that Ken (and his ilk) only want to sell to those who will line his pocket the most, instead of those who have the best interest of the club at heart. However you want to frame it, it's pure greed. Makes me sick.

[Wanderlust]

21 minutes ago, ProfessorWoland said:

 Having started in a small business and worked for some of the largest, I've seen plenty of behaviour I'd consider unethical and perhaps my viewpoint is considered naive or unrealistically idealistic by some.

Not by me. Business ethics are essential to business success in my book. Unfortunately we have an antiquated legal system overseeing it all and being very selective as to who comes under the spotlight.

[Chris Custodiet]

1 minute ago, Hoppy510 said:

Not by me. Business ethics are essential to business success in my book. Unfortunately we have an antiquated legal system overseeing it all and being very selective as to who comes under the spotlight.

If you think ethics aren't up to much in the business sector, I don't think you'd be too impressed with some of the stuff that goes on in the public sector. But you are absolutely right about the selectivity of who comes under the spotlight.

[DomRepWanderer]

 

 

 

Alan Nixon

 

That’s the time frame being worked on.

Quote Tweet

 

· 9m

Replying to @reluctantnicko

So will we know who the winner is of the hotel either later today or tomorrow

[Mounts Kipper]

42 minutes ago, DomRepWanderer said:

 

 

 

Alan Nixon

 

That’s the time frame being worked on.

Quote Tweet

 

· 9m

Replying to @reluctantnicko

So will we know who the winner is of the hotel either later today or tomorrow

It’s same claim every Thursday and Friday, and nothing happens. 

[Chris Custodiet]

“Anyone in their right mind isn’t going to take over a club like Bolton in £42m of debt – and when I talked to Bassini last week I said the same thing. Why would you buy it now?” said the ever helpful Simon Jordan in May.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17627121.ken-anderson-bows-out-all-guns-blazing-at-bolton-wanderers/

Fake news?

According to Rubins, secured creditors were Fildraw £10m, Anderson £1.6m, Brett Warburton £3m and unsecured creditors £11m.

I make that £25.6m in total. About the same as the debt 20 years ago with probably the lowest wages/turnover ratio in the Championship.

Can anyone tell me where Talksport, the two Baronnesses, Kieran Maguire or any newspaper in the land has corrected the esteemed Simon Jordan's misstatement of the facts, as reported in the Beeno?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[birch-chorley]

6 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

“Anyone in their right mind isn’t going to take over a club like Bolton in £42m of debt – and when I talked to Bassini last week I said the same thing. Why would you buy it now?” said the ever helpful Simon Jordan in May.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17627121.ken-anderson-bows-out-all-guns-blazing-at-bolton-wanderers/

Fake news?

According to Rubins, secured creditors were Fildraw £10m, Anderson £1.6m, Brett Warburton £3m and unsecured creditors £11m.

I make that £25.6m in total. About the same as the debt 20 years ago with probably the lowest wages/turnover ratio in the Championship.

Can anyone tell me where Talksport, the two Baronnesses, Kieran Maguire or any newspaper in the land has corrected the esteemed Simon Jordan's misstatement of the facts, as reported in the Beeno?

How much debt does the hotel have? 

[Chris Custodiet]

5 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

How much debt does the hotel have? 

There  wasn't a hotel 20 years ago and Bassini said he didn't know there was one until he later visited it.

But to answer your question, the hotel owes £5.5m to PBP, £1.2m to BWFC, £335K to HMRC and £1m in other creditors.

As for 'mismanagement' losses probably aggregate to about £14m in total over Anderson's tenure, most of it in Year 1 and with no parachute payments in any year, compared to average losses of around £10m p.a for Championship clubs.

[Casino]

rumours as to successful hotel bidder

[Matty]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

rumours as to successful hotel bidder

FV as it makes life a lot easier for everyone 

[Casino]

if its not public within an hour, ill post

but watch LOV as its their scoop