Ani Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Except that if ED's trustees can't get the money from the club, they can go after KA. In fact they can go after him first, just like Blumarble did against SSBWFC. My point really was that KA does not get £5m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 8, 2019 Members Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ani said: Not backing Sam as much as he wanted was a good call. Really? I see it as the beginning of the end of (arguably) our finest ever period - certainly in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, bolty58 said: Really? I see it as the beginning of the end of (arguably) our finest ever period - certainly in my lifetime. Inevitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Casino said: My money is on Ken having agreed a pay off and the creditors being in charge of the sale That's moonshift, Brett and james Not sure how that works though. Ken owes ED's trustees £5M. He then loaned that money to the club secured against its assets. But ED had put in a clause to allow him (now his trustees) to claw back Ken's shares should loan go unpaid by a certain date. What deal would ED's trustees want to do with Ken? They can just take back his shares as payment for the loan and sell the club to get their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, MickyD said: You obviously dislike ED but why? Is it because he didn't dip his hands deep enough? I believe there was resentment when ED first invested in the club in 1999 and Gordon Hargreaves was replaced by Phil Gartside as chairman. Many of the old guard stepped down not long afterwards but resentment intensified when ED took over in 2003. He was the only one willing to put up the money the club needed but some shareholders were extremely aggrieved that the effect was to render their shares worthless. This resentment hasn't gone away and was again in evidence at last year's AGM with one shareholder making enormously exaggerated claims about how much he had lost, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Steejay Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Really? I see it as the beginning of the end of (arguably) our finest ever period - certainly in my lifetime. Exactly. It was always obvious that we would decline once Sam left. Same thing will happen with Burnley once Dyche goes, Bournemouth when Howe leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Not sure how that works though. Ken owes ED's trustees £5M. He then loaned that money to the club secured against its assets. But ED had put in a clause to allow him (now his trustees) to claw back Ken's shares should loan go unpaid by a certain date. What deal would ED's trustees want to do with Ken? They can just take back his shares as payment for the loan and sell the club to get their money. That’s not what Chris C is saying, he says that moonshift take the shares back and Anderson will still owe the 5 million to moonshift. Edited March 8, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 If someone buys BWFC today and installs a new manager and invests enough money to get us back in the Premier League where do we go from there? With BSA we got into Europe but couldn’t get any further, if you are the owner at that point what do you do next? Don’t think you could sell the club at that point and if you are not prepared to put more money in the only way is down, this model doesn’t work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: That’s not what Chris C is saying, he says that moonshift take the shares back and Anderson will still owe the 5 million to moonshift. I think that is possible along with the club still owing KA 5M... But will almost certainly be up for a legal challenge. Which could take years. However, I'm unsure what deal ED's trustees would cut with Ken - unless they are trying to safeguard the club. I still though in that scenario fail to see how that would be advantageous to Ken over the other option.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Just now, Moon boy said: If someone buys BWFC today and installs a new manager and invests enough money to get us back in the Premier League where do we go from there? With BSA we got into Europe but couldn’t get any further, if you are the owner at that point what do you do next? Don’t think you could sell the club at that point and if you are not prepared to put more money in the only way is down, this model doesn’t work Sam threatened to walk - ED gave him money for Anelka. Sam wanted more the next window - then did walk. Ultimately ED was unhappy with the prospect of ever increasing demands. It looks odd against the backdrop of Megson spending. But remember the direct Allardyce replacement was given buttons to work with that summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Really? I see it as the beginning of the end of (arguably) our finest ever period - certainly in my lifetime. Bolty I deliberately said ‘as much as he wanted’ he wanted to be competing with top 4 which was many millions more than we could afford. The breaking up of the back room squad and Sam leaving was shit all round. Just a pity there was no middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Can't forget that tv income went up dramatically between BSA and Megson. So whilst Megson did get more cash to spend that's because there was more coming in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Roger_Dubuis said: Aye.The Eddie Davies financial plan of not backing Allardyce and replacing him with Sammy Lee, Gary Megson, Owen Coyle, Dougie Freedman and Neil Lennon worked out fantastic didn't it? That's why you could go to the Parish church and take your choice of empty pews at his memorial service. Eh? Edited March 8, 2019 by Sweep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I remember Gartside saying in an interview a few years ago that most of our debt was owed to Davies who wouldn't want it back. He described our 'real' debt as around 5-10 million owed to Barclays and how this meant we were in a far healthier position than most clubs. How did we get from that to this shit show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Sam threatened to walk - ED gave him money for Anelka. Sam wanted more the next window - then did walk. Ultimately ED was unhappy with the prospect of ever increasing demands. Sam actually covered this quite recently at the time we were sitting in 4th and he had earmarked a couple of signings which would give us the very realistic chance of qualifying for the CL. Those players were earmarked for the end of that season anyway so he asked for that budget to be brought forward 5 months. He claims the response he got was “we don’t want the CL” at that point he felt the club no longer matched his ambitions. His demands didn’t increase he just requested they be brought forward. ED declined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ani said: Not backing Sam as much as he wanted was a good call. Backing and appointing the others was not. It was the only call. Sam was committed to Sam. Eddie was committed to BWFC and knew that Sam was itching to go probably only restrained by his wife who doesn't seem keen on moving house. Little Sam was a little gamble that didn't pay off. Megson? He did keep the club in the Premiership at a cost. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but how many knew at that time that Sean Dyche would turn out to be quite good and Owen Coyle close to useless? Eddie just kept picking up the tab over and over again Edited March 8, 2019 by Chris Custodiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said: Sam actually covered this quite recently at the time we were sitting in 4th and he had earmarked a couple of signings which would give us the very realistic chance of qualifying for the CL. Those players were earmarked for the end of that season anyway so he asked for that budget to be brought forward 5 months. He claims the response he got was “we don’t want the CL” at that point he felt the club no longer matched his ambitions. His demands didn’t increase he just requested they be brought forward. ED declined I know but remember that is a one-sided take on events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: I know but remember that is a one-sided take on events. Well obviously whether Sam still has an axe to grind only he can say but when he was explaining the circumstances behind it (over 10 yrs later) he still seemed quite upset about it and stil saw it as an opportunity missed. Hardly came across as angry & bitter I’m sure the conversations ran deeper than that but that was the situation in a nutshell lets not forget, Sam then agreed to stay until the end of the season until PG chucked his toys out of the pram and said he should go immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: That’s not what Chris C is saying, he says that moonshift take the shares back and Anderson will still owe the 5 million to moonshift. Exactly. Moonshift don't want the shares at all, let alone pay £5million for them. Ken will be lucky to recoup his £472K for the shares. They are there as backstop security whilst imposing time limits on Ken's room for manoeuvre.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 40 minutes ago, Moon boy said: If someone buys BWFC today and installs a new manager and invests enough money to get us back in the Premier League where do we go from there? With BSA we got into Europe but couldn’t get any further, if you are the owner at that point what do you do next? Don’t think you could sell the club at that point and if you are not prepared to put more money in the only way is down, this model doesn’t work It is working for Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: It is working for Man City. City's backers do have a lot lot lot more money than ED had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: It is working for Man City. In fairness to them, they're investing off the pitch too. Anything to help make the club sustainable. That said, oil revenues will slow down eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: It is working for Man City. Not worked for stoke, villa, Swansea, brum, reading etc etc who are all following sharply behind us. It’s one big fuck off cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Exactly. Moonshift don't want the shares at all, let alone pay £5million for them. Ken will be lucky to recoup his £472K for the shares. They are there as backstop security whilst imposing time limits on Ken's room for manoeuvre.. I think he mentioned this in his latest statement something along the lines of him only getting back what he’s paid and not getting any profit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said: Well obviously whether Sam still has an axe to grind only he can say but when he was explaining the circumstances behind it (over 10 yrs later) he still seemed quite upset about it and stil saw it as an opportunity missed. Hardly came across as angry & bitter I’m sure the conversations ran deeper than that but that was the situation in a nutshell lets not forget, Sam then agreed to stay until the end of the season until PG chucked his toys out of the pram and said he should go immediately But if Sam was seen by ED as someone who was demanding more and more to spend window after window and offering to resign if not given the cash...you can see why ED at the time might have thought - no I have to make a stand. There was a lot to it and neither side were completely in the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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