Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Marc505]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Presumably more are being trained at the moment?

Plenty more f16s are seemingly en route over the next few years.

Must be more in the training program, but they also do need to keep some of their best pilots in country as well to keep up the fight, be difficult to keep the balance right.

[Dimron]

13 hours ago, Marc505 said:

Must be more in the training program, but they also do need to keep some of their best pilots in country as well to keep up the fight, be difficult to keep the balance right.

What makes a good fast-jet fighter piolt?

You've got to balance the necessary aggression with situational awareness... you need to have a mental picture at all times of your aircraft's "shape" and its limits... as well as the status of your colleagues and of course, who you are flying against... mind blowing

[gonzo]

11 minutes ago, Dimron said:

What makes a good fast-jet fighter piolt?

You've got to balance the necessary aggression with situational awareness... you need to have a mental picture at all times of your aircraft's "shape" and its limits... as well as the status of your colleagues and of course, who you are flying against... mind blowing

It is when you consider large portions of society struggle to park in between two lines on a carpark or use a mini-roundabout. 

[Marc505]

3 minutes ago, Dimron said:

What makes a good fast-jet fighter piolt?

You've got to balance the necessary aggression with situational awareness... you need to have a mental picture at all times of your aircraft's "shape" and its limits... as well as the status of your colleagues and of course, who you are flying against... mind blowing

All of that plus high skill levels in maths and physics, ability to master hundreds of different functions of a jet, its sensors and weapons with split second timing, ability to take in and react to reams of stuff quickly, react to what everyone else is doing around you at hundreds of mph and also do all that under heavy g loads. And then still remember where the ground is at all times 😃

Now loads of pilots share what they do on social media its also shown how much the flying bit is just a tiny part of the job, they all have to have secondary jobs in squadrons as well as flying, then cram loads of studying for new stuff in around all that as well. Dunno where they find the time!

[Dimron]

Just now, gonzo said:

It is when you consider large portions of society struggle to park in between two lines on a carpark or use a mini-roundabout. 

I've been a passenger in a car with a fighter pilot... not the safest of places by RoSPA standards!!!

When they start playing a game where the back seater reaches over and steers while the driver works the pedals......

[Dimron]

31 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

All of that plus high skill levels in maths and physics, ability to master hundreds of different functions of a jet, its sensors and weapons with split second timing, ability to take in and react to reams of stuff quickly, react to what everyone else is doing around you at hundreds of mph and also do all that under heavy g loads. And then still remember where the ground is at all times 😃

Now loads of pilots share what they do on social media its also shown how much the flying bit is just a tiny part of the job, they all have to have secondary jobs in squadrons as well as flying, then cram loads of studying for new stuff in around all that as well. Dunno where they find the time!

You learn how to fly the aircraft using stick and rudder in your first 10 hours, then you are sent solo... as you say its all the stuff that follows as things get more complicated.

I've done a bit of flying training and you can read the manuals, sit in the classroom, prepare for the flight and then... as soon as you get airborne, your brain farts and it all goes to shit and you become a sweaty, fumbling idiot talking drivel on  the RT.. all with a smiling assassin of an instructor next to you!!!

[Marc505]

55 minutes ago, Dimron said:

You learn how to fly the aircraft using stick and rudder in your first 10 hours, then you are sent solo... as you say its all the stuff that follows as things get more complicated.

I've done a bit of flying training and you can read the manuals, sit in the classroom, prepare for the flight and then... as soon as you get airborne, your brain farts and it all goes to shit and you become a sweaty, fumbling idiot talking drivel on  the RT.. all with a smiling assassin of an instructor next to you!!!

Oh yeah, everything begins with a little putt putt light aircraft learning the very basics of flight - and that might end up progressing all the way to flying a top secret stealth aircraft if you're good enough 😃

Can imagine everything going to mush when you finally get to go solo! I once got to fly in the Key 103 eye in the sky plane and got given control of it for a few minutes, even then with the pilot next to me it was completely immersion like I couldn't think about anything else. Flew it over the Reebok though!

[Marc505]

Couple of books you might like @Dimron if you want to read about modern day fast jet pilots and what they do, Viper Pilot by Dan Hampton (he's a bit of a prick tbf but one of the most decorated F-16 pilots of all time) and Typhoon by Mike Sutton.

Both really show how much there is to deal with whilst in the middle of flying!

[Dimron]

28 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

Oh yeah, everything begins with a little putt putt light aircraft learning the very basics of flight - and that might end up progressing all the way to flying a top secret stealth aircraft if you're good enough 😃

Can imagine everything going to mush when you finally get to go solo! I once got to fly in the Key 103 eye in the sky plane and got given control of it for a few minutes, even then with the pilot next to me it was completely immersion like I couldn't think about anything else. Flew it over the Reebok though!

if you're good enough... can I also add "if your cheque book is big enough" ?

All flying starts with a basic sunshine only licence then you add ratings like leaves in a book, I have a lapsed ME/IR but am content with mainly gliding and LAA stuff these days... a good friend flies a 747 freighter, my wife says that if she ever was in a modern airliner and it had problems she would want Joe up front sorting things out BUT if she was in a small aeroplane she would want me and my 30 plus years of stick and rudder figuring it out.

Reebok is a Visual Reporting Point... on the charts as "Middlebrook" these days but I still call "Reebok" on the radio

[Dimron]

37 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

Couple of books you might like @Dimron if you want to read about modern day fast jet pilots and what they do, Viper Pilot by Dan Hampton (he's a bit of a prick tbf but one of the most decorated F-16 pilots of all time) and Typhoon by Mike Sutton.

Both really show how much there is to deal with whilst in the middle of flying!

My all time favourite flying book is "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernest Gann.

Also "Lancaster Target" by Jack Currie and "Half a Wing, Three engines and a Prayer" by Brain O'Neill

[Dimron]

19 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Don't suppose you can ever have enough training. 

Experience in theatre is something else.

As above, if they're mainly being used for air defence missions, then hopefully they will be getting that experience, without too much engagement with enemy aircraft. 

Been thinking about this... the pilots might have a bit too much aggression in them, I believe that was a "problem" with the Polish squadrons in WW2... they were over anxious to fight in both the air and in armoured units leading to higher initial losses.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

So much of it is electronic these days- the weaponry, detection and defensive weapons.

Plane on plane conducted from over 100 miles potentially.

Obviously not much time to react, so I suppose they have to rely on the EW aspects to look after them- then get the fuck out should they be unable to defeat an incoming missile for example. 

 

[SatanGreavsie]

3 hours ago, Marc505 said:

Oh yeah, everything begins with a little putt putt light aircraft learning the very basics of flight - and that might end up progressing all the way to flying a top secret stealth aircraft if you're good enough 😃

Can imagine everything going to mush when you finally get to go solo! I once got to fly in the Key 103 eye in the sky plane and got given control of it for a few minutes, even then with the pilot next to me it was completely immersion like I couldn't think about anything else. Flew it over the Reebok though!

Hah. When I first read that I thought you'd blagged onto a top rated NATO AWACS or summat, codenamed Key 103. Then it dawned on me 😃

[Dimron]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

So much of it is electronic these days- the weaponry, detection and defensive weapons.

Plane on plane conducted from over 100 miles potentially.

Obviously not much time to react, so I suppose they have to rely on the EW aspects to look after them- then get the fuck out should they be unable to defeat an incoming missile for example. 

 

The weapon systems have to be used aggressively... you are presented with all these aids to enhance situational awareness and help get into a position to deliver the kill and avoid being killed yourself but the pilot still has to press the pickle button... "fly the plane" is the most important mantra.

Drone warfare will be the ultimate outcome where the human is designed out of the system but we yet need to give AI the "edge"... the passion and "wanting" to make the kill.

The F16 is a fighter jet designed to be used aggressively... I always thought the A10 Warthog would be good for the Ukrainian theatre... robust, easy to fly, relatively easy to maintain in the field and very effective against ground forces as proved at Basra

[Tonge moor green jacket]

At the moment, it being used solely as an air defence platform- shooting down incoming drones and missiles.

From what I understand they are largely out of range of Russian anti aircraft systems, but clearly will need to be on their guard.

I'm not sure what it means to say a plane is designed to be flown aggressively- I would imagine any military fighter plane has that capacity-but I would imagine this scenario is better for the pilots than having to go on offensive action, with the greater risks.

Hopefully they're getting good experience from it.

[Marc505]

Seen a few suggesting it might have been friendly fire. Big possibility of that with so many non western SAM systems about

[Marc505]

2 hours ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Hah. When I first read that I thought you'd blagged onto a top rated NATO AWACS or summat, codenamed Key 103. Then it dawned on me 😃

Haha no certainly not that prestigious 😂 it was that show that used to fly over motorways and report back how busy they were. Sitting up front to watch take off and landing from Manchester airport was a privilege though!

4 hours ago, Dimron said:

if you're good enough... can I also add "if your cheque book is big enough" ?

All flying starts with a basic sunshine only licence then you add ratings like leaves in a book, I have a lapsed ME/IR but am content with mainly gliding and LAA stuff these days... a good friend flies a 747 freighter, my wife says that if she ever was in a modern airliner and it had problems she would want Joe up front sorting things out BUT if she was in a small aeroplane she would want me and my 30 plus years of stick and rudder figuring it out.

Reebok is a Visual Reporting Point... on the charts as "Middlebrook" these days but I still call "Reebok" on the radio

A friend of the family flies (or flew, its been a while since I saw him) 747s for Virgin Atlantic, considering he spends virtually every free minute off duty he gets absolutely pissed I think I'd want someone else to take over in an emergency 😃

[Marc505]

 

[Dimron]

1 minute ago, Marc505 said:

Haha no certainly not that prestigious 😂 it was that show that used to fly over motorways and report back how busy they were. Sitting up front to watch take off and landing from Manchester airport was a privilege though!

A friend of the family flies (or flew, its been a while since I saw him) 747s for Virgin Atlantic, considering he spends virtually every free minute off duty he gets absolutely pissed I think I'd want someone else to take over in an emergency 😃

A Fleet Air Arm pal once said to me... "airline pilots are very good at one thing"... in my opinion they deserve total respect for what they do and their safety record but it's not for me.

Another pal flies 78's for Virgin... he literally freaked out when we used to fly into small airfields in our grouped Cherokee (G-LIZI), we had no Air Traffic Controllers and had to "impose" our way into the circuit an keep our ears open and eyes peeled... he was known to just tell me to get on with it and not kill him in the process 🙂 It can be like herding cats.

Different stroke for different folks I suppose...

[Dimron]

2 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

 

It's a high performance, high speed, high risk machine which has teeth... it'll kill you without blinking an eye... any new aircraft like this in the inventory will bite even outside combat... may the pilot RIP

[Tonge moor green jacket]

https://kyivindependent.com/belarus-allegedly-downs-russian-2-drones-over-countrys-airspace-for-first-time-monitoring-group-reports/

Shit drones.

[SatanGreavsie]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

https://kyivindependent.com/belarus-allegedly-downs-russian-2-drones-over-countrys-airspace-for-first-time-monitoring-group-reports/

Shit drones.

Distinctly non shit thermite based drone developed by Ukraine

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Urghh. That's vicious. 

Saw one with an ak47 attached to it, but that one would be terrible for trench dwellers.

[Dimron]

Warming up... ATACMS & Storm Shadow into Russia being tabled.

Will this give Putin a self defence reason to strike into Poland where these weapons are being delivered from?

About time we got this shit show done and dusted

[Winchester White]

13 hours ago, Dimron said:

Warming up... ATACMS & Storm Shadow into Russia being tabled.

Will this give Putin a self defence reason to strike into Poland where these weapons are being delivered from?

About time we got this shit show done and dusted

Russia couldn't strike into Poland, it doesn't have the kit or men to do so. It can barely gain a few km a week against Ukraine with an ammo shortage.